So Much for Tasers Being Non Lethal

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2008-07-28 03:24am

SancheztheWhaler wrote:
Justforfun000 wrote:No cop with a decent bone in his body should be getting jollies off shocking people.
I'm not a cop, and I may be an indecent asshole, but I sure as hell enjoyed watching the "don't taze me bro!" guy get what was coming to him. That video should be replayed at least once a month as a reminder of when and how to properly use tazers.

That or the "you fuckin hammered me"

Dave · Post by **Dave** » 2008-07-28 10:31am

I live in Springfield, and the local paper ran a story today on the Ozark case. It provides some more information.

Link

The Springfield News-Misleader wrote: A Branson teen was Tasered after Ozark police found him lying on the side of the highway, seriously injured from a major fall.
Advertisement

His father says it was unnecessary and that using the electroshock weapon multiple times on the already-injured teen has delayed his son's recovery. But law enforcement officials, who are reviewing the incident, say the Taser was used to protect the teen from further injury.

Mace Hutchinson, 17, is at Cox South hospital recovering from a broken back and heel and a punctured lung. He was listed in stable condition on Friday afternoon.

About 2:30 a.m. July 19, police found the teen lying on the shoulder of a roadway underneath a U.S. 65 overpass in Ozark. He was battered and bruised, and it appeared that the teen had fallen from the highway above.

Neither police nor Mace's parents, Don and Stephanie Hutchinson, know what happened or how he ended up on the shoulder of the roadway.

What happened after the fall is contested as well.

Police officers were initially dispatched to the overpass because of reports that a man was banging on cars. Then, they came across the teen, who they say had already fallen from the overpass.

The incident is under internal investigation at the Ozark Police Department, but Police Chief Lyle Hodges said he believes officers used the Taser to stop Hutchinson from running into the path of oncoming cars.

"From preliminary reports I've seen, I'm convinced this young man would have darted into traffic without this officer's intervention," Hodges said.

The police report indicates that Hutchinson was repeatedly shouting statements such as "cops, kill, shoot" and "smoke crack" and trying to move toward the road.

However, Don Hutchinson said he believes his son was trying to cooperate with officers but was unable to do so because of the extent of his injuries. He also believes his son was incoherent due to shock from the fall.

"They said he was noncompliant and thought he was going to try to lunge out into the road," Don Hutchinson said. "He was delirious. He was in shock. He just fell 35 feet, so you're going to have some shock. ... I don't think being Tasered 19 times is the solution."

A total of 19 shots were fired at Hutchinson from two Taser stun guns, although Hodges said it's still unclear how many actually made contact with the teen.

A Taser shoots two probes out that stick in the target's skin, and an electrical current is passed from the Taser to the probes.

Hutchinson's dad said surgery was delayed for two days because Mace's white blood cell count was too high -- a fact he blames on the Taser.

However, a spokesman for Taser International said he has never heard of a stun gun causing an elevated white blood cell count.

"This issue has not been described in any of the several hundred research exposures nor in the several hundred thousand volunteer training exposures," said Steve Tuttle, vice president of communications for Taser International.

Stephanie Hutchinson said her family plans to press charges against the Ozark Police Department over the incident.

"I've been sick about it," she said.

Justforfun000 · Post by **Justforfun000** » 2008-07-28 11:57am

I'm not a cop, and I may be an indecent asshole, but I sure as hell enjoyed watching the "don't taze me bro!" guy get what was coming to him. That video should be replayed at least once a month as a reminder of when and how to properly use tazers.

Wait, isn't that the guy in the university that keeps getting tased even when (they said) he couldn't move or get up after being tased in the first place so they kept doing it? That's how I remember the incident but I never actually heard a true expert opinion on the story. It wasn't quite that simple I assume then..

I agree for the most part. The only situation where I could see a taser being used more than three times would be if that officer is alone

That's a good point. I could see that being a possibility.

Justforfun000 · Post by **Justforfun000** » 2008-07-28 11:59am

Reading that updated article above all I keep thinking is these cops are trying to justify using the taser to keep the kid from harm? A fucknig teenage kid with a potentially broken back is all of a sudden a fucking leper? Ever heard of hands?? I just don't understand the mentality of the police in this scenario.

Psychic_Sandwich · Post by **Psychic_Sandwich** » 2008-07-28 12:06pm

Even better, they did it to stop him from 'darting into traffic.' Uh huh. I'm not a doctor, you understand, but I doubt somebody with a broken back, heel and a punctured lung and will be 'darting' or 'running' anywhere. He probably wouldn't even have been able to stand up.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2008-07-28 12:11pm

Psychic_Sandwich wrote:Even better, they did it to stop him from 'darting into traffic.' Uh huh. I'm not a doctor, you understand, but I doubt somebody with a broken back, heel and a punctured lung and will be 'darting' or 'running' anywhere. He probably wouldn't even have been able to stand up.

Clearly excessive force is a-okay as long as it was in the suspect's best interests.

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2008-07-28 12:28pm

General Zod wrote:
Psychic_Sandwich wrote:Even better, they did it to stop him from 'darting into traffic.' Uh huh. I'm not a doctor, you understand, but I doubt somebody with a broken back, heel and a punctured lung and will be 'darting' or 'running' anywhere. He probably wouldn't even have been able to stand up.
Clearly excessive force is a-okay as long as it was in the suspect's best interests.

Are you familiar at all with the late Bill Hick's "Officer Nigger-hater" routine? It seems strangely apt.

Big Phil · Post by **Big Phil** » 2008-07-28 01:20pm

Justforfun000 wrote:
I'm not a cop, and I may be an indecent asshole, but I sure as hell enjoyed watching the "don't taze me bro!" guy get what was coming to him. That video should be replayed at least once a month as a reminder of when and how to properly use tazers.
Wait, isn't that the guy in the university that keeps getting tased even when (they said) he couldn't move or get up after being tased in the first place so they kept doing it? That's how I remember the incident but I never actually heard a true expert opinion on the story. It wasn't quite that simple I assume then..

You're thinking of the (Arab-looking) guy at Stanford or Berkeley who ran past security guards, who then tazed him into submission.

I'm referring to Don't taze me bro! otherwise known as Andrew Meyer. You can hear the tazer firing for all of two or three seconds, while douchebag screams like a girl for about 10-15 seconds.

The guy in California may have been a douchebag too, but was probably excessive use of the tazer. Andrew Meyer got what he deserved; if anything, the cops were restrained because John Kerry was there and it was a public forum.

Justforfun000 · Post by **Justforfun000** » 2008-07-28 04:01pm

I'm referring to Don't taze me bro! otherwise known as Andrew Meyer. You can hear the tazer firing for all of two or three seconds, while douchebag screams like a girl for about 10-15 seconds.

LOL! That was priceless!

I never did see that. Yes I can completely see the justification in that case. He was VERY actively resisting arrest and they tried numerous times to restrain him using their arms. It was very appropriate. One of the female cops even said very deiberately "STOP resisiting", and this was a while before they actually tased him.

Part of me really wonders how bloody painful it is. In every video one I've seen it sounds like it's absoutely excrutiating. Can't they have a taser that just locks up the muscles without inflicting so much pain? That's the part I have a hard time getting around. The ones who abuse them get off on that ability to make people scream.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2008-07-28 04:03pm

Justforfun000 wrote: Part of me really wonders how bloody painful it is. In every video one I've seen it sounds like it's absoutely excrutiating. Can't they have a taser that just locks up the muscles without inflicting so much pain? That's the part I have a hard time getting around. The ones who abuse them get off on that ability to make people scream.

I've never been hit by a taser before, though I'd imagine it's a lot like getting a jolt from an electric fence but several times more painful.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2008-07-28 04:08pm

Justforfun000 wrote: Part of me really wonders how bloody painful it is. In every video one I've seen it sounds like it's absoutely excrutiating. Can't they have a taser that just locks up the muscles without inflicting so much pain? That's the part I have a hard time getting around. The ones who abuse them get off on that ability to make people scream.

During the experience the five seconds feels like it is lasting forever. It does hurt, but I wouldn't call it excrutiating pain. What makes the taser so effective is people don't have time to mentally prepare for it, so the initial shock makes it much worse.

I've been tasered twice now, and the second time wasn't anywhere near as bad as the first.

Justforfun000 · Post by **Justforfun000** » 2008-07-28 04:10pm

During the experience the five seconds feels like it is lasting forever. It does hurt, but I wouldn't call it excrutiating pain. What makes the taser so effective is people don't have time to mentally prepare for it, so the initial shock makes it much worse.

I've been tasered twice now, and the second time wasn't anywhere near as bad as the first.

Hmm....I don't suppose you could make yourself somewhat immune to them by building yourself up to the shocks? Get your own and regularly jolt yourself? It'd be extremely satisfying to just stand there and smile at an officer who shot you expecting you to fall down and start screaming.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2008-07-28 04:14pm

Justforfun000 wrote:
Hmm....I don't suppose you could make yourself somewhat immune to them by building yourself up to the shocks? Get your own and regularly jolt yourself? It'd be extremely satisfying to just stand there and smile at an officer who shot you expecting you to fall down and start screaming.

I wasn't immune. It just didn't hurt as bad because I was mentally prepared for it. The first time though wasn't what I would call terrible pain. I wanted it to stop, but afterwards I wasn't traumatized by it either.

Death from the Sea · Post by **Death from the Sea** » 2008-07-28 08:26pm

Kamakazie Sith wrote: I wasn't immune. It just didn't hurt as bad because I was mentally prepared for it. The first time though wasn't what I would call terrible pain. I wanted it to stop, but afterwards I wasn't traumatized by it either.

You must have a high threshold for pain, because that shit hurts bad. But you do bring up a good point with once it is over, it is over and the pain is gone.

Did you take the prongs or just have them taped on you? and where were you connected at? they hooked me up on my left shoulder and right ankle, so I got the full body effect.

Justforfun000 wrote:
Hmm....I don't suppose you could make yourself somewhat immune to them by building yourself up to the shocks? Get your own and regularly jolt yourself? It'd be extremely satisfying to just stand there and smile at an officer who shot you expecting you to fall down and start screaming.

it is not like a drug that you can build immunity to, the taser overrides your control of your muscles between the two probes and that incapacitates you. The pain is essentially a side effect and not the primary purpose of the taser. Unless you are doing the "drive stun", which is using the taser as a pain compliance tool.

Justforfun000 · Post by **Justforfun000** » 2008-07-29 01:03am

it is not like a drug that you can build immunity to, the taser overrides your control of your muscles between the two probes and that incapacitates you. The pain is essentially a side effect and not the primary purpose of the taser. Unless you are doing the "drive stun", which is using the taser as a pain compliance tool.

I didn't really think so..I was being kind of facetious. Oh well.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2008-07-29 01:12am

Death from the Sea wrote:You must have a high threshold for pain, because that shit hurts bad. But you do bring up a good point with once it is over, it is over and the pain is gone.

Well, it did hurt a lot.

Did you take the prongs or just have them taped on you? and where were you connected at? they hooked me up on my left shoulder and right ankle, so I got the full body effect.

LMAO. That had to have sucked. I was shot in the back the top prong hit me on my right shoulder blade, and then the other hit above my right buttock.

Post by **Coyote** » 2008-07-29 11:07am

Keevan_Colton wrote:Seriously, what the fuck is it possible to SAY that justifies being tazered 19 times? Hell, what is it possible to SAY that justifies it even once? I see a lot of parallels at times between god damn gang bangers and the police over there, from the protective tribalism right on through to seeking vengeance on those that dis' them.

Well, now that you've said you'll kill cops pre-emtively in "self defense", I'd say they have a good reason to taser you several dozen times.

Internet Toughguy, huurr! Go play with your swords.

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2008-08-01 01:38pm

The best way I have to relate tasering is the feeling you get when walking on a leg that's been asleep, and you're having PAINFUL pins-and-needles sensations. Now have it all over your body, and you can't control how you're moving.

That's what it felt like.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2008-08-01 02:26pm

I never said that I had the explanation, I just said that there is a chance there is one that they might have.

You know what... there is also a chance that I could quantum tunnel into the black hole at the center of the Andromeda galaxy tomorrow, but we dont consider this as being credible now do we?

Now, given the information in the second article. It is a crock of shit. You dont move someone who just feel 50 feet. And by move I mean cause them pain, which causes them to struggle and causes involuntary muscular contractions. Plus the trauma from the fall sends him into shock, which explains the semi-coherent babble, and also weakens his heart making the tazer potentially lethal.

"We shocked him 19 times so he would stop moving when the convulsions stopped." That is the best they have? You are a fucking idiot for defending them in any way shape or form. What they did should get them thrown in prison for attempted murder.

[R_H] · Post by **[R_H]** » 2008-08-01 03:48pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote:The best way I have to relate tasering is the feeling you get when walking on a leg that's been asleep, and you're having PAINFUL pins-and-needles sensations. Now have it all over your body, and you can't control how you're moving.

That's what it felt like.

When, and why did you get tasered?

Thanas · Post by **Thanas** » 2008-08-01 06:30pm

^He didn't, you misread his post.

[R_H] · Post by **[R_H]** » 2008-08-01 07:48pm

Thanas wrote:^He didn't, you misread his post.

Ahh. Oops. Thanks for clearing that up.

Post by **Broomstick** » 2008-08-01 11:11pm

Psychic_Sandwich wrote:Even better, they did it to stop him from 'darting into traffic.' Uh huh. I'm not a doctor, you understand, but I doubt somebody with a broken back, heel and a punctured lung and will be 'darting' or 'running' anywhere. He probably wouldn't even have been able to stand up.

It is quite possible to stand up, even walk, with broken vertebrae. The issue is whether or not the spinal cord was damaged. It is possible for the bones to break and the nerves to remain intact although it is obviously an extremely precarious situation fraught with danger.

That said, it's pretty damn rare to fall 35 feet and be able to stand up and walk away because even if your back isn't broken usually you're injured badly enough in other ways to impair movement.

Death from the Sea · Post by **Death from the Sea** » 2008-08-01 11:40pm

I have to wonder though, what kind of ass whooping would that kid have gotten if tasers did not exist? I mean, if the officers deemed him dangerous (whether it be to himself or others) enough to taser him 19 times (I am not saying he was, just that they did), what kind of ass whipping that translates to and how much damage that would have done?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2008-08-01 11:43pm

It would be nice if we had video of this (another reason to have a shitload of public surveillance, but that's a different thread). It could be that the video would slam the last nail in the coffin for these police officers' claims, but it could also do the opposite, and completely exonerate the cops. I've seen highway videos of guys who literally roll a car, fly out the window, land on the pavement, and somehow get up and continue to resist arrest. It's almost miraculous.