Could You Afford to be Poor?

N&P: Discuss governments, nations, politics and recent related news here.

Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital

User avatar
Einhander Sn0m4n
Insane Railgunner
Posts: 18630
Joined: 2002-10-01 05:51am
Location: Louisiana... or Dagobah. You know, where Yoda lives.

Could You Afford to be Poor?

Post by Einhander Sn0m4n »

Answer: No, because companies charge more to poor people than to rich for the same services, and poor people are forced into more expensive markets due to not being able to scrape money together up-front.

Wall Street Journal
BOOK EXCERPT

DOW JONES REPRINTS
This copy is for your personal, non-commercial use only. To order presentation-ready copies for distribution to your colleagues, clients or customers, use the Order Reprints tool at the bottom of any article or visit:
www.djreprints.com.

• See a sample reprint in PDF format.
• Order a reprint of this article now.

'This Land is Their Land'
By Barbara Ehrenreich
June 27, 2008 9:29 p.m.
Could You Afford to Be Poor?

There are people, concentrated in Manhattan's Upper East Side and Beverly Hills, who still confuse poverty with the simple life. No cable TV, no altercations with the maid, no summer home maintenance issues—just the basics, like family, sunsets, and walks in the park. What they don't know is that it's expensive to be poor. In fact, you, the reader of middling income, could probably not afford it.
[book cover]
Metropolitan Books

A 2006 study from the Brookings Institution documents the "ghetto tax," or higher cost of living in low-income urban neighborhoods. It comes at you from every direction, from food prices to auto insurance. A few examples from this study, by Matt Fellowes, that covered twelve American cities:
• Poor people are less likely to have bank accounts, which can be expensive for those with low balances, and so they tend to cash their pay checks at check-cashing businesses, which, in the cities surveyed, charged $5 to $50 for a $500 check.

• Nationwide, low-income car buyers, defined as people earning less than $30,000 a year, pay 2 percentage points more for a car loan than more affluent buyers.

• Low-income drivers pay more for car insurance. In New York, Baltimore, and Hartford, they pay an average $400 more a year to insure the exact same car and driver risk as wealthier drivers.

• Poorer people pay an average of 1 percentage point more in mortgage interest.

• They are more likely to buy their furniture and appliances through pricey rent-to-own businesses. In Wisconsin, the study reports, a $200 rent-to-own TV set can cost $700 with the interest included.

• They are less likely to have access to large supermarkets and hence to rely on the far more expensive, and lower quality offerings, of small grocery and convenience stores.


I didn't live in any ghettoes when I worked on Nickel and Dimed—a trailer park, yes, but no ghetto—and on my average wage of $7 an hour, or about $14,400 a year, I wasn't in the market for furniture, a house, or a car. But the high cost of poverty was brought home to me within a few days of my entry into the low-wage life,when, slipping into social worker mode, I chastised a coworker for living in a motel room when it would be so much cheaper to rent an apartment. Her response: Where would she get the first month's rent and security deposit it takes to pin down an apartment? The lack of that amount of capital—probably well over $1,000—condemned her to paying $40 a night at the Day's Inn.

Then there was the problem of sustenance. I had gone into the project imagining myself preparing vast quantities of cheap, nutritious soups and stews, which I would freeze and heat for dinner each day. But surprise: I didn't have the proverbial pot to pee in, not to mention spices or Tupperware. A scouting trip to Kmart established that it would take about a $40 capital investment to get my kitchenette up to speed for the low-wage way of life.

The food situation got only more challenging when I, too, found myself living in a motel. Lacking a fridge and microwave, I had to get all my food from the nearest convenience store (hard boiled eggs and banana for breakfast) or, for the big meal of the day, Wendy's or KFC. I have no nutritional complaints; after all, there is a veggie, or flecks of one, in Wendy's broccoli and cheese baked potato. The problem was financial. A double cheeseburger and fries is a lot more expensive than that hypothetical homemade lentil stew.

There are other tolls along the road well traveled by the working poor. If your credit is lousy, which it is likely to be, you'll pay a higher deposit for a phone. If you don't have health insurance, you may end up taking that feverish child to an emergency room, and please don't think of ERs as socialized medicine for the poor. The average cost of a visit is over $1,000, which is more than ten times what a clinic pediatrician would charge. Or you neglect that hypertension, diabetes, or mystery lump until you end up with a $100,000 problem on your hands.

So let's have a little less talk about how the poor should learn to manage their money, and a little more attention to all the ways that money is being systematically siphoned off. Yes, certain kinds of advice would be helpful: skip the payday loans and rent-to-pay furniture, for example. But we need laws in more states to stop predatory practices like $50 charges for check cashing. Also, think what some microcredit could do to move families from motels and shelters to apartments. And did I mention a living wage?

If you're rich, you might want to stay that way. It's a whole lot cheaper than being poor.

Excerpted from "This Land is Their Land" by Barbara Ehrenreich. Copyright © 2008 by Barbara Ehrenreich. Reprinted with permission by Metropolitan Books. All rights reserved.
First Calvinist sees this thread and says that being poor is the fault of the poor person gets their face ripped off. Fair warning.
Image Image
User avatar
The Duchess of Zeon
Gözde
Posts: 14566
Joined: 2002-09-18 01:06am
Location: Exiled in the Pale of Settlement.

Post by The Duchess of Zeon »

Oh, I can imagine that's very much the case. Amy and I were so fortunate precisely because we had large cash reserves from better off days which let us systematically establish ourselves and secure cheap housing despite having no credit or rental records und so weiter. I can't even imagine how it would be possible to be anything other than homeless if you don't at least enter the job-force as an entry-level worker with less than $10,000 in cash in the bank and no debt whatsoever.
The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. -- Wikipedia's No Original Research policy page.

In 1966 the Soviets find something on the dark side of the Moon. In 2104 they come back. -- Red Banner / White Star, a nBSG continuation story. Updated to Chapter 4.0 -- 14 January 2013.
User avatar
Master of Ossus
Darkest Knight
Posts: 18213
Joined: 2002-07-11 01:35am
Location: California

Post by Master of Ossus »

Yeah. Companies that serve the poor face much higher costs. It's really hard for them to set up shop, and so they have to charge higher prices to serve bad areas. IIRC, they also do things like use more door-to-door salespeople than normal businesses, since it makes for a more effective and cheaper alternative to advertising in bad neighborhoods.
"Sometimes I think you WANT us to fail." "Shut up, just shut up!" -Two Guys from Kabul

Latinum Star Recipient; Hacker's Cross Award Winner

"one soler flar can vapririze the planit or malt the nickl in lass than millasacit" -Bagara1000

"Happiness is just a Flaming Moe away."
Jaevric
Jedi Knight
Posts: 678
Joined: 2005-08-13 10:48pm
Location: Carrollton, Texas

Post by Jaevric »

I actually had to read that book -- "Nickel and Dimed" for a class. Definitely an educational and somewhat depressing book; I wouldn't recommend reading it for fun, but for someone from a solidly "middle-class and conservative" background, it was eye-opening.
Andrew_Fireborn
Jedi Knight
Posts: 799
Joined: 2007-02-12 06:50am

Post by Andrew_Fireborn »

So, someone's sat down and found out yet another reason the gap between the richest 1% and the rest is continuing to grow?

Shocking.
Rule one of Existance: Never, under any circumstances, underestimate stupidity. As it will still find ways to surprise you.
User avatar
Alan Bolte
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2611
Joined: 2002-07-05 12:17am
Location: Columbus, OH

Post by Alan Bolte »

I chastised a coworker for living in a motel room when it would be so much cheaper to rent an apartment. Her response: Where would she get the first month's rent and security deposit it takes to pin down an apartment? The lack of that amount of capital—probably well over $1,000—condemned her to paying $40 a night at the Day's Inn.
Has this woman no friends, no family? No one she could room with? Is this really at all common?
Any job worth doing with a laser is worth doing with many, many lasers. -Khrima
There's just no arguing with some people once they've made their minds up about something, and I accept that. That's why I kill them. -Othar
Avatar credit
User avatar
Frank Hipper
Overfiend of the Superego
Posts: 12882
Joined: 2002-10-17 08:48am
Location: Hamilton, Ohio?

Post by Frank Hipper »

Alan Bolte wrote:
I chastised a coworker for living in a motel room when it would be so much cheaper to rent an apartment. Her response: Where would she get the first month's rent and security deposit it takes to pin down an apartment? The lack of that amount of capital—probably well over $1,000—condemned her to paying $40 a night at the Day's Inn.
Has this woman no friends, no family? No one she could room with? Is this really at all common?
Why assume family and friends would be in any position to be of assistance even if they wanted to help?

It's a highly plausible, easily imagined scenario to me, not to mention one I've seen in action.
Image
Life is all the eternity you get, use it wisely.
User avatar
The Duchess of Zeon
Gözde
Posts: 14566
Joined: 2002-09-18 01:06am
Location: Exiled in the Pale of Settlement.

Post by The Duchess of Zeon »

Alan Bolte wrote: Has this woman no friends, no family? No one she could room with? Is this really at all common?
Many families kick their children out at 18 with a command to "get a job", and cease to provide them any help after that. And in fact some parents from families like that will chastise other people for daring to support their kids through college and establishing themselves when they should "learn to get a job and do it themselves."
The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. -- Wikipedia's No Original Research policy page.

In 1966 the Soviets find something on the dark side of the Moon. In 2104 they come back. -- Red Banner / White Star, a nBSG continuation story. Updated to Chapter 4.0 -- 14 January 2013.
Kanastrous
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 6464
Joined: 2007-09-14 11:46pm
Location: SoCal

Post by Kanastrous »

Morgan Spurlock touched on this topic in the first episode of his old documentary series for Fox. That was an eye-opener, too.
I find myself endlessly fascinated by your career - Stark, in a fit of Nerd-Validation, November 3, 2011
User avatar
LadyTevar
White Mage
White Mage
Posts: 23542
Joined: 2003-02-12 10:59pm

Post by LadyTevar »

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:
Alan Bolte wrote: Has this woman no friends, no family? No one she could room with? Is this really at all common?
Many families kick their children out at 18 with a command to "get a job", and cease to provide them any help after that. And in fact some parents from families like that will chastise other people for daring to support their kids through college and establishing themselves when they should "learn to get a job and do it themselves."
Several young people are also forced to leave home just to get employment, because there's no jobs open near home. Some also move to The Big City just because they don't want stuck in the same small town the rest of their lives. Family and friends could be hours away, if not further.
Image
Nitram, slightly high on cough syrup: Do you know you're beautiful?
Me: Nope, that's why I have you around to tell me.
Nitram: You -are- beautiful. Anyone tries to tell you otherwise kill them.

"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP" -- Leonard Nimoy, last Tweet
User avatar
Broomstick
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 28846
Joined: 2004-01-02 07:04pm
Location: Industrial armpit of the US Midwest

Post by Broomstick »

Frank Hipper wrote:
Alan Bolte wrote:Has this woman no friends, no family? No one she could room with? Is this really at all common?
Why assume family and friends would be in any position to be of assistance even if they wanted to help?

It's a highly plausible, easily imagined scenario to me, not to mention one I've seen in action.
Let me give you an example from real life:

Two years ago my extended family were all happily middle class - hell, I flew airplanes for a hobby and that ain't cheap! Today, this is our situation:

Me: laid off in November. Thank Og my truck and car were fully paid off. We have been renters in the same building for years so security deposit/credit for living quarters not a problem (we also have been quite frugal abode, opting for a smaller place when we could have had larger for many years, which helped us build up a nestegg). Because we've been buying car insurance from the same company for years that wasn't an issue, either. But, we have NO medical insurance. My husband has multiple chronic and serious health problems. His medication alone has set us back $85 a month even with the assistance of Lake County which assists the uninsured with prescriptions (note that's a county program, not state or Federal). He depends on donations from a sympathetic MD for one medication which, by itself, would cost us a couple hundred dollars per month. When the doc's samples from pharmacy reps run out, so does his supply and my husband simply goes without. We have not been able to afford his blood tests, which should be done every three months, and would cost more than $800 out of pocket. A prospective employer wants me to take a medical test. I have not been able to schedule this for three weeks because without insurance I have been repeatedly rebuffed AND scolded for not having insurance. Why didn't I take COBRA? Because the monthly premium would have exceeded my monthly income these last nine months. I am, frankly, poor even if I'm making more than minimum wage. I have assets from prior good times but if one of them is damaged, destroyed, or stolen I can NOT replace it. We need new tires for both vehicles but we aren't getting them. We need a new mattress, but we aren't getting it. Thank Og I have room for a garden to supplement our food income and my landlord gave me a job but he's having economic troubles, too, AND his knees are giving out - being coached on how to assess damage, repair where walls meet roofs, deal with roof gutters, caulk, and paint by someone shouting at you from 20 feet below is not the most efficient means of getting the job done but I'm learning. This 40+ female former desk jockey is now maneuvering 70 pound ladders and humping caulk and paint up and down them all day in the blazing summer sun (which, given my vampiric complexion, is not particularly fun) but at least I have some income.

My parents: fixed income, mom is on disability. Her medication bill with insurance - that is, her co-pays - run hundreds a month. There are co-pays on her doctor visits - about 5 a month. Thank Og dad is healthy. When times were good I used to help them out financially - now, that is impossible. They have said that if I wind up homeless we can have their spare bedroom so at least we needn't worry about being on the street but, frankly, they can NOT help me out.

Sister living in Michigan: now post-divorce. Since she was a stay-at-home mother (her kids are two fine young men) she was out of the job market for a couple decades so... uh, yeah, right, trouble getting a job. How poor is she? She actually qualifies for welfare. A month after the divorce was final her car was totaled in an accident. She has not been able to replace it, having no steady income. So, when she needs a car she has to rent one. Um... she's even worse off than I am. She and her eldest are trying to figure out how to get him into college. In two years she gets to repeat this exercise with her youngest. Don't even bother suggesting she go to her ex - he's unemployed, too.

Sister in New York: Well, she just finished medical school - she has debt in the six digits. Her husband's business is suffering from the slow economy so he's laid off half his work force and needless to say profits are non-existent. Meanwhile, they're trying to send their two kids to college. Anyhow, she has helped sister-in-Michigan with car rental and groceries on occasion. She has helped the parents on occasion. But, to be honest, she is less able to do this than she was a year or three ago. I suppose she could be called selfish for not immediately taking in seven poor relations (parents, sister+2 kids, husband and me) but if she did that then HER family would be in similar straits. Not to mention geographically we're spread over half the continent.

So, from an extended family numbering 10 people all whom were solidly middle class two years ago SEVEN have slid into poverty. That's more than half. Nearly 3/4 in fact. Do you honestly think that a family already saddled with six figure debt (from educational costs, mostly) could suddenly ride to the rescure of seven other people? Really?

If I called up sister-in-New-York tomorrow and said "Dire calamity! I need $250!" she'd probably give it to me but if I keep tapping into that how long will that safety net last? Not very long. That safety net remains in place only if reserve it for genuine emergencies. I just hope HER situation doesn't deteriorate.

This sort of shit - entire families sliding down the ladder - is more common than conservatives would like to admit or believe and it's becoming MORE common as the US economy slides.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
User avatar
Patrick Degan
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 14847
Joined: 2002-07-15 08:06am
Location: Orleanian in exile

Post by Patrick Degan »

Broomstick wrote:This sort of shit - entire families sliding down the ladder - is more common than conservatives would like to admit or believe and it's becoming MORE common as the US economy slides.
Oh, I think conservatives do know about it. They just don't give a shit. Or some actually see it as an advantage —people on a treadmill and under constant threat of the bosses tossing a banana peel in their path so they slip off and fall into the chasm yawning just over the edge aren't likely to be attempting naughty and disobedient things like, say, union agitation or political activity or even asking for a simple COL raise.
When ballots have fairly and constitutionally decided, there can be no successful appeal back to bullets.
—Abraham Lincoln

People pray so that God won't crush them like bugs.
—Dr. Gregory House

Oil an emergency?! It's about time, Brigadier, that the leaders of this planet of yours realised that to remain dependent upon a mineral slime simply doesn't make sense.
—The Doctor "Terror Of The Zygons" (1975)
User avatar
Alan Bolte
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2611
Joined: 2002-07-05 12:17am
Location: Columbus, OH

Post by Alan Bolte »

Perhaps I implied that I didn't believe the article. In fact, most of the article doesn't surprise me at all. I only specifically meant the part about people living in hotels for long periods of time. Your parents have the spare bedroom; I know that if tomorrow my extended family and all their assets were wiped from existence, I could still probably find a friend to live with, so long as I chipped in with chores and rent. I might have to sleep on his couch at first, but it's better than spending $40 a day on a bed and a shower.

On the other hand, I live in the middle of a fairly large city, where economic conditions are quite diverse. As I understand it, people in small towns and rural areas are often all in exactly the same economic predicament, so if one can't afford a place to live, most of the people one knows probably can't either.
Any job worth doing with a laser is worth doing with many, many lasers. -Khrima
There's just no arguing with some people once they've made their minds up about something, and I accept that. That's why I kill them. -Othar
Avatar credit
User avatar
Stuart Mackey
Drunken Kiwi Editor of the ASVS Press
Posts: 5946
Joined: 2002-07-04 12:28am
Location: New Zealand
Contact:

Post by Stuart Mackey »

Patrick Degan wrote:
Broomstick wrote:This sort of shit - entire families sliding down the ladder - is more common than conservatives would like to admit or believe and it's becoming MORE common as the US economy slides.
Oh, I think conservatives do know about it. They just don't give a shit. Or some actually see it as an advantage —people on a treadmill and under constant threat of the bosses tossing a banana peel in their path so they slip off and fall into the chasm yawning just over the edge aren't likely to be attempting naughty and disobedient things like, say, union agitation or political activity or even asking for a simple COL raise.
Thats right, "treat 'em mean, keep 'em keen". Something I see in my industry in NZ when the employeer thinks they can get away with it, but something that will happen more often as wheels start to fall off here over the next year.
Oh, remember to eat cake.
Via money Europe could become political in five years" "... the current communities should be completed by a Finance Common Market which would lead us to European economic unity. Only then would ... the mutual commitments make it fairly easy to produce the political union which is the goal"

Jean Omer Marie Gabriel Monnet
--------------
User avatar
ArmorPierce
Rabid Monkey
Posts: 5904
Joined: 2002-07-04 09:54pm
Location: Born and raised in Brooklyn, unfornately presently in Jersey

Post by ArmorPierce »

Broomstick wrote:A prospective employer wants me to take a medical test. I have not been able to schedule this for three weeks because without insurance I have been repeatedly rebuffed AND scolded for not having insurance.
That's strange, prospective employers normally pay for that

She and her eldest are trying to figure out how to get him into college. In two years she gets to repeat this exercise with her youngest. Don't even bother suggesting she go to her ex - he's unemployed, too.
If her economic conditions is as bad as you say they should have over half of the college paid to them by financial need grants, a good amount will be covered by federal subsidized loans and the remainder should be covered by non-subsidized loan which payments can be deferred until 6 months after graduation. That's what I am getting for this year. Possible that they may get a better deal than that.
Brotherhood of the Monkey @( !.! )@
To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift. ~Steve Prefontaine
Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at an Elingsh uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht frist and lsat ltteer are in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae we do not raed ervey lteter by it slef but the wrod as a wlohe.
User avatar
ArmorPierce
Rabid Monkey
Posts: 5904
Joined: 2002-07-04 09:54pm
Location: Born and raised in Brooklyn, unfornately presently in Jersey

Post by ArmorPierce »

Oh just make sure to fill out the fafsa and to have a special conditions request if a large economic change from last year occurred. Priority deadline has past already if it is for this upcoming fall semester but complete deadline isn't until October.
Brotherhood of the Monkey @( !.! )@
To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift. ~Steve Prefontaine
Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at an Elingsh uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht frist and lsat ltteer are in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae we do not raed ervey lteter by it slef but the wrod as a wlohe.
Block
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2333
Joined: 2007-08-06 02:36pm

Post by Block »

Depending on the group medical plan, the insurance company can require that you pass a full physical and psychological workup before they're willing to insure you, this saves employers money on their portion of the premium. Problem is, if you have pre-existing conditions you either have to pay a lot more out of pocket, or they can refuse coverage as you're a new employee.
User avatar
Stuart Mackey
Drunken Kiwi Editor of the ASVS Press
Posts: 5946
Joined: 2002-07-04 12:28am
Location: New Zealand
Contact:

Post by Stuart Mackey »

Block wrote:Depending on the group medical plan, the insurance company can require that you pass a full physical and psychological workup before they're willing to insure you, this saves employers money on their portion of the premium. Problem is, if you have pre-existing conditions you either have to pay a lot more out of pocket, or they can refuse coverage as you're a new employee.
:shock: In NZ an employer must pay for that, by law. Of course, I live in a an evil pinko commie un-American commie hole with socialised heath care.
Via money Europe could become political in five years" "... the current communities should be completed by a Finance Common Market which would lead us to European economic unity. Only then would ... the mutual commitments make it fairly easy to produce the political union which is the goal"

Jean Omer Marie Gabriel Monnet
--------------
User avatar
Covenant
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4451
Joined: 2006-04-11 07:43am

Post by Covenant »

ArmorPierce wrote:
Broomstick wrote:A prospective employer wants me to take a medical test. I have not been able to schedule this for three weeks because without insurance I have been repeatedly rebuffed AND scolded for not having insurance.
That's strange, prospective employers normally pay for that
[/quote]

Not anymore, and not around here. Companies don't want to pay for insurance but want you to have it so that you don't take unncessary amount of sick days and so forth, and pass the cost onto them. So for them, a lot of the things they want you to do (medical exams) as well as for general health, they want you to have insurance already.

It's pretty awful. I've been treated like absolute garbage in terms of what's been expected from me on these job hunts, and I'm lucky if I ever recieve anything in return--even getting a canned letter is a step up from the normal dead silence if they're not interested in you. Their reasons for not wanting you can be anything, and you'll never know, since you can't get feedback. You can't even write and ask for some since you never had anyone's email address anyway, except possibly the guy who you talked to in person, who won't reply--and switchboard operators don't hand out phone numbers. Usually, unless you know the extension already you can't get ahold of anyone. You apply, you hope, and you wait.
User avatar
Alyrium Denryle
Minister of Sin
Posts: 22224
Joined: 2002-07-11 08:34pm
Location: The Deep Desert
Contact:

Post by Alyrium Denryle »

Gods now I know why I love academia... well.. besides science and the comparative lack of bigotry.
GALE Force Biological Agent/
BOTM/Great Dolphin Conspiracy/
Entomology and Evolutionary Biology Subdirector:SD.net Dept. of Biological Sciences


There is Grandeur in the View of Life; it fills me with a Deep Wonder, and Intense Cynicism.

Factio republicanum delenda est
User avatar
Broomstick
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 28846
Joined: 2004-01-02 07:04pm
Location: Industrial armpit of the US Midwest

Post by Broomstick »

ArmorPierce wrote:
Broomstick wrote:A prospective employer wants me to take a medical test. I have not been able to schedule this for three weeks because without insurance I have been repeatedly rebuffed AND scolded for not having insurance.
That's strange, prospective employers normally pay for that
Well, the Federal government is a strange beast....

They paid for the main portion of the physical, but this is an additional test beyond that. Just one fucking test. Not a complete physical, just one goddamn medical test. I'll shut up now before I get angry.
She and her eldest are trying to figure out how to get him into college. In two years she gets to repeat this exercise with her youngest. Don't even bother suggesting she go to her ex - he's unemployed, too.
If her economic conditions is as bad as you say they should have over half of the college paid to them by financial need grants, a good amount will be covered by federal subsidized loans and the remainder should be covered by non-subsidized loan which payments can be deferred until 6 months after graduation. That's what I am getting for this year. Possible that they may get a better deal than that.
Uh-huh. Without a car, just physically getting him to a campus is a bitch, you know? It's not just tuition/grants/etc... it's transportation, too. And, apparently, the schools are expecting his father to chip in and that's just not going to happen. They know about financial aid, but discussing stuff is difficult when just keeping a phone line operational is a major financial strain.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
User avatar
Laudon
Redshirt
Posts: 25
Joined: 2005-05-12 09:45am
Location: Prague, Czech Republic

Post by Laudon »

Wow... just wow.

Where I live, we are entitled by law to financial support in case of losing a job, 45-50% of previous monthly wage for 6 months. After that, social benefits. Absolute existentional minimum, which is guaranteed by the state to all citizens is cca. 3.000,- Kc (200$), but social benefits exceed that.

Medical insurance for unemployed, mothers caring for a child etc. is paid by the state. Except small regulation fees (which are new and everybody is bitching about them, 2$ per vistit of physician or 4$ per day in hospital, for example), medical care is free. Mandatory medical insurance is calculated from gross wage and amount to 13,5 % which is automatically taken from our pay.

But we are post communist socialized hell hole, probably.
User avatar
Xess
Jedi Knight
Posts: 921
Joined: 2005-05-07 07:11pm
Location: Near Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada

Post by Xess »

Jesus, that shit is scary. I'm on three medications and I get them all FREE via government support since I have no income. The US is fucked up.
Image[
User avatar
salm
Rabid Monkey
Posts: 10296
Joined: 2002-09-09 08:25pm

Post by salm »

Xess wrote:Jesus, that shit is scary. I'm on three medications and I get them all FREE via government support since I have no income. The US is fucked up.
Yeah, no shit. And besides all that cool medical stuff i also went to college for free. The Americans need to notice that eb0l communism is great. :D
User avatar
Winston Blake
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2529
Joined: 2004-03-26 01:58am
Location: Australia

Post by Winston Blake »

Another example, albeit fictional, of the phenomenon in the article is 'Vimes' Boots':
Early in his career, while he is still a nearly-impoverished Watchman, Vimes reflects that he can only afford ten-dollar boots with thin soles which don't keep out the damp and wear out in a season or two. A pair of good boots, which cost fifty dollars, would last for years and years - which means that over the long run, the man with cheap boots has spent much more money and still has wet feet.

This thought leads to the general realization that one of the reasons rich people remain rich is because they don't actually have to spend as much money as poor people; in many situations, they buy high-quality items (such as clothing, housing, and other necessities) which are made to last. In the long run, they actually use much less of their disposable income. He describes this as The Samuel Vimes 'Boots' Theory Of Socio-Economic Injustice.
Destructionator XIII wrote:This wouldn't surprise me for a second. I just got back from a friend's house and we were discussing going back to school together to finally finish up our degrees in engineering and start making the big bucks.

The problem is neither of us can afford to actually go back to college. I withdrew last time due to not being able to afford it anymore (my scholarship ran dry and government help for college is a bitch - get this, in my county at least, the government college grant counts as income for the government medical insurance means test (wtf), and if you are teetering the line, taking the college money means being screwed for the medical coverage...), and he was forced to withdraw when his daughter was born, since he had to start working full time to support her.
That's pretty shitty 'government help' if people need to afford to go to uni. In the People's Republic of Aussiestan, if you pass the means test, you essentially just fill out some forms and all your tuition fees are deferred until you're working and your annual income exceeds a limit. Perhaps it's because universities are mostly private in America? Our Ivy League equivalents are all public.
Broomstick wrote:She and her eldest are trying to figure out how to get him into college. In two years she gets to repeat this exercise with her youngest. Don't even bother suggesting she go to her ex - he's unemployed, too.
This sounds awful. The first thing I thought was 'Youth Allowance', but the second was 'Wait, Australia's a commie hellhole'.

YA boils down to: if you're 15-24, living away from home and studying or looking for work (and your family's not rich), you get enough money to pay rent, food, transport to uni, etc. With a little left over if you're frugal. (Healthcare is paid for and tuition fees can be deferred).

Actually, how do students get medical certificates for illness in America? For example if you wake up with a bad cold and need to miss a class, do you need to pay to see a doctor and get a certificate?
Post Reply