Oscar Wilde & JJ Rousseau

Tolya · Post by **Tolya** » 2008-07-24 03:12pm

I am having a small discussion on atheism and the other guy told me, that even Oscar Wilde and JJ Rousseau called a catholic priests on their death bed. Can anyone help me verify whether this is true or a lie?

That of course does not lend any help to the argument that there actually is a God, but still Im curious.

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2008-07-24 03:47pm

There WAS a priest at Wilde's deathbed, who explained in a letter that he felt the man was conscious enough to understand what he was doing. Of course, if he was dying of syphylis (and not menengitis as is believed) that may not count for much.

No idea about Rousseau.

It IS known that a famous OW quote was that 'Catholicism is the only religion to die in.'

Buddha · Post by **Buddha** » 2008-07-24 03:52pm

It seems that with athiests or any kind of person that fundies despise ended up renouncing their beliefs/converting on their deathbeds. It is somthing about the word "deathbed" that just makes it almost seem inevitable. Ignoring reality and saying that Charles Darwin died after giving up his ideas on evolution is laughable. Kind of like this one, unless it is true that is.

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2008-07-27 10:09pm

People forget that clergy are often at death beds and funerals at the behest of relatives. My grandfather was as much a godless heathen as I am, but when he died in January, a Methodist preacher presided over the funeral. It turned out to be my cousin's idea, since she worked for the same county he did and one of her friends was a chaplain for the sheriff's office.

Luckily the old man wasn't very famous, so I doubt a bunch of Jesus Jackals will start spreading stories about how he accepted Christ on his deathbed.

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2008-07-28 02:51am

Elfdart wrote:People forget that clergy are often at death beds and funerals at the behest of relatives. My grandfather was as much a godless heathen as I am, but when he died in January, a Methodist preacher presided over the funeral. It turned out to be my cousin's idea, since she worked for the same county he did and one of her friends was a chaplain for the sheriff's office.

Very true. I know in the case of Oscar Wilde, though, he had made friends promise well before his death that he would have a priest in his final hours.

Terralthra · Post by **Terralthra** » 2008-07-28 04:18am

I don't see how any particular person converting to Christianity proves anything about the existence or explanatory power (or lack thereof) Christian mythology. Far from it: it clearly demonstrates that a belief in the Christian God can be directly related to fear of death, which is what atheists have been saying all along.

Dark Hellion · Post by **Dark Hellion** » 2008-07-28 10:08pm

Why would you turn down a free pass to heaven, even if you don't believe? What's the worse that can happen, you're embarrassed for the last seconds of you life because a man in a dress is besides you? Hell, get a multicultural priestfest going on around your deathbed. Go to heaven/Valhalla/reincarnate/whatever with full points. If you get lucky the priest and pastor will start a fistfight and give you entertainment as you pass on.

CaptainZoidberg · Post by **CaptainZoidberg** » 2008-07-28 10:19pm

Dark Hellion wrote:Why would you turn down a free pass to heaven, even if you don't believe? What's the worse that can happen, you're embarrassed for the last seconds of you life because a man in a dress is besides you? Hell, get a multicultural priestfest going on around your deathbed. Go to heaven/Valhalla/reincarnate/whatever with full points. If you get lucky the priest and pastor will start a fistfight and give you entertainment as you pass on.

Pascal's "proof" is basically just a rewording of Zeno's Paradox, which says that to walk across a room one must walk across the first half, then one must walk across the first half of the remaining span, and so on. Since each distance that one walks has a finite value, and one must transverse an infinite number of such spans to get to the other side, it must take an infinite amount of time to walk across a room.l

The fact is that the probability of God existing is infinitesimal, so it might not be sensible to make a finite investment in it even if the reward should God exist is infinity.

Dark Hellion · Post by **Dark Hellion** » 2008-07-28 10:28pm

Man, I really need to start using rolleyes, because holymen fistfighting is apparently not sarcastic enough for the board anymore.

Terralthra · Post by **Terralthra** » 2008-07-28 11:51pm

CaptainZoidberg wrote:
Dark Hellion wrote:Why would you turn down a free pass to heaven, even if you don't believe? What's the worse that can happen, you're embarrassed for the last seconds of you life because a man in a dress is besides you? Hell, get a multicultural priestfest going on around your deathbed. Go to heaven/Valhalla/reincarnate/whatever with full points. If you get lucky the priest and pastor will start a fistfight and give you entertainment as you pass on.
Pascal's "proof" is basically just a rewording of Zeno's Paradox, which says that to walk across a room one must walk across the first half, then one must walk across the first half of the remaining span, and so on. Since each distance that one walks has a finite value, and one must transverse an infinite number of such spans to get to the other side, it must take an infinite amount of time to walk across a room.l

The fact is that the probability of God existing is infinitesimal, so it might not be sensible to make a finite investment in it even if the reward should God exist is infinity.

That doesn't make any sense at all.

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2008-07-29 08:21am

If gods and afterlives are real, we have no reason to accept the words of people who profit from extorting belief from fear in real life. Assuming you have awareness and the ability to choose in the afterlife, you should be able to choose to follow the paths available to you then, when you have all the available information. If you can't, the gods are cunts. If you can, there's no reason to subscribe to temporal notions of spirituality that enforce mortal, material domination by churches and temples.

Hillary · Post by **Hillary** » 2008-07-29 09:44am

So the God pimps are claiming Wilde as one of their own. Has anyone told them he was gay?

He was an author and playwright - why on earth should his views on religion carry any weight whatsoever? This is a pretty pathetic appeal to authority, and a rather insubstantial authority at that.

Wyrm · Post by **Wyrm** » 2008-07-29 01:45pm

CaptainZoidberg wrote:Pascal's "proof" is basically just a rewording of Zeno's Paradox, which says that to walk across a room one must walk across the first half, then one must walk across the first half of the remaining span, and so on. Since each distance that one walks has a finite value, and one must transverse an infinite number of such spans to get to the other side, it must take an infinite amount of time to walk across a room.l

The fact is that the probability of God existing is infinitesimal, so it might not be sensible to make a finite investment in it even if the reward should God exist is infinity.

Actually, Pascal's "proof" is does not involve any sort of supertask and is in no way like Zeno's Paradox. The argument goes like this: Either you choose accept God or you reject him. If you accept and God doesn't exist, you gain nothing — if he does exist, you gain eternal bliss in Heaven. If you reject God and he doesn't exist, you lose nothing — if he does exist, you gain eternal suffering in Hell. Therefore, play it safe and choose to believe in God.

The problem is that the "proof" is actually a huge-ass black-white fallacy. Even within the religions christened "Christian", there's a huge choice of which religion to follow, and there are many that stress their way is the only way to Heaven. When you choose to believe, you are not 'playing it safe,' you are gambling.

There's also the fact that believing costs you. You have to go to church and receive sacraments. You have to pray. Churches at various times and denominations require tithes or offerings. This is cost in both time and resources, costs you will never recover if the deal is false.

Finally, any God with a sense of justice (or is kind and loving) wouldn't condemn me on the basis of me not believing in him. He would judge me on my works and whether or not I have helped or harmed the world overall. Any God who only feels like sharing because I suck his cock is not worthy of my worship.