Dyslexic girl fails exams, sues University

[Pezzoni]

A medical student with dyslexia is to take legal action in a bid to prevent the use of multiple choice exams as part of doctors' training.

Naomi Gadian, 21, claims the use of the tests discriminates against people with the condition and is challenging the General Medical Council to scrap them.

The second year student hopes medical schools may have to drop the exams if she wins at an employment tribunal.

The GMC says it has no powers to set medical examinations.

Ms Gadian claims that, as a professional body which awards qualifications, the GMC is discriminating against her on the grounds of disability.

She said: "In normal day life, you don't get given multiple choice questions to sit. Your patients aren't going to ask you 'here's an option and four answers. Which one is right?'"

Source

Anyone else think this is outrageous? I'm well aware of the difficulties that Dyslexic students may suffer (being dyslexic myself), but in order to compensate for this they are given extra time in their exams - allowing more careful reading, writing, and checking of answers - in order to let them reflect their true ability.

I personally would have concerns about this girl becoming a Doctor, given that her apparent problems with reading extend to a degree whereby it would clearly affect her professional performance - this obviously being rather dangerous. She argues (this was on the radio (along with her failing her exams), not in the article I'm afraid) that in a professional capacity, she would always double check her work. Well fantastic: does it not occur to her that the 25% extra time she gets in her exams might be to do just this?

Apparently, she managed to pass the essay based exams, but fell on the MCP papers. Now, MCP papers are normally very difficult (given that you have the answer in front of you), and not blaggable: you have to know the answer perfectly, or you're not going to get it right. Given this, and that Professor Stein - a Neuroscientist who has been studying Dyslexia for 25+ years - claims that dyslexics are not especially disadvantaged in MCP vs Essay exam, it feels to me like she failed because she hasn't worked hard enough, and now wants someone else to take the blame.

[Dartzap]

I think your assessment is pretty much bang on the money, she's panicking about wasting several years of life and is trying to make someone else take the blame whilst getting some mullah out of it.

[mr friendly guy]

She said: "In normal day life, you don't get given multiple choice questions to sit. Your patients aren't going to ask you 'here's an option and four answers. Which one is right?'"

Geez I wish a patient would actually come in say, these are my symptoms, here are the four answers. Diagnose and treat me. It would actually be much easier than real life.

[Solauren]

Sure your parents give you multiple choice exames

'Don't stick your finger in the light socket'

your choices are
A)- Do as your parents said
b)- Stick your finger in the socket
c)- Find out why it's a bad idea, and make it into a career choice.

Sorry 'would be doctor', you're entire ATTITUDE disqualifies you from being a doctor.

[General Zod]

Sure your parents give you multiple choice exames
>snip<

Speaking of reading problems. . .you realize it said patients and not parents, right?

[Schuyler Colfax]

Sure your parents give you multiple choice exames
>snip<

Speaking of reading problems. . .you realize it said patients and not parents, right?

He's knows, that was just part of the joke. Why would patient tell you not to do that (unless you were actually about to)?

[CaptainZoidberg]

Why don't they just let her take the exam with a machine that reads the questions aloud?

[Pezzoni]

Why don't they just let her take the exam with a machine that reads the questions aloud?

I want to know why it doesn't affect her reading of non multiple-choice questions (beyond the fact she's getting kicked out for failing a MCP exam).

[General Zod]

Why don't they just let her take the exam with a machine that reads the questions aloud?

That's not going to do much good in the real world where she'd have to be able to read things like prescription labels and medical charts without mixing anything up.

[CaptainZoidberg]

Why don't they just let her take the exam with a machine that reads the questions aloud?

I want to know why it doesn't affect her reading of non multiple-choice questions (beyond the fact she's getting kicked out for failing a MCP exam).

There's probably less to read on an essay prompt.

But I think what would be fair would be giving her the test with a machine that reads the questions to her. But then her license should say that she was given that accommodation, and hospitals will be able to decide if she can meet the given position with her reading disability.

They used to do that with the SATs, and it worked pretty well.

[General Zod]

There's probably less to read on an essay prompt.

But I think what would be fair would be giving her the test with a machine that reads the questions to her. But then her license should say that she was given that accommodation, and hospitals will be able to decide if she can meet the given position with her reading disability.

They used to do that with the SATs, and it worked pretty well.

Why the fuck should university medical exams be fair? I don't want someone treating me if there's a very high probability that they could mix up my charts or prescriptions. If they can't perform as well as everyone else without special accommodations they need to find a different career.

[CaptainZoidberg]

Why the fuck should university medical exams be fair? I don't want someone treating me if there's a very high probability that they could mix up my charts or prescriptions. If they can't perform as well as everyone else without special accommodations they need to find a different career.

heh. Why not let the hospital decide that? If it says on her license in big red print that she can't read sufficiently well, then the hospital can make an informed decision about whether she has a place at the hospital.

[General Zod]

heh. Why not let the hospital decide that? If it says on her license in big red print that she can't read sufficiently well, then the hospital can make an informed decision about whether she has a place at the hospital.

If she can't read as well as everyone else she shouldn't pass the exams, period. We're talking about a profession where a mistake can kill people, not something like an office job. So why the fuck should she get exempted from the same standards as everyone else who wants to be practice medicine?

[Alyrium Denryle]

Why the fuck should university medical exams be fair? I don't want someone treating me if there's a very high probability that they could mix up my charts or prescriptions. If they can't perform as well as everyone else without special accommodations they need to find a different career.

heh. Why not let the hospital decide that? If it says on her license in big red print that she can't read sufficiently well, then the hospital can make an informed decision about whether she has a place at the hospital.

If she cannot read very well, she wont even be able to keep up with the medical literature, which is all printed.

A solution to this problem is a proactive one. SHe should have been in a learning center being taught how to work around her disorder. As it stands now, she should not be a doctor if her reading is impaired that much. People's lives are at stake if she screws up

[CaptainZoidberg]

If she cannot read very well, she wont even be able to keep up with the medical literature, which is all printed.

I believe there is software that can read PDFs allowed, and I know that quite a few textbooks can be found somewhere in PDF format.

Look, I'm not saying that one can perform all the functions of a doctor if one can't read very well, but it ought to be the hospital's choice to decide if they need someone with that specific handicap.

A solution to this problem is a proactive one. SHe should have been in a learning center being taught how to work around her disorder. As it stands now, she should not be a doctor if her reading is impaired that much. People's lives are at stake if she screws up

I agree. And her reading handicap must not be that severe if she was able to do the essays.

[General Zod]

If she cannot read very well, she wont even be able to keep up with the medical literature, which is all printed.

I believe there is software that can read PDFs allowed, and I know that quite a few textbooks can be found somewhere in PDF format.

How the fuck is she supposed to read a medical chart or a prescription label? Should the hospital go out of their way to convert those just to accommodate her?

Look, I'm not saying that one can perform all the functions of a doctor if one can't read very well, but it ought to be the hospital's choice to decide if they need someone with that specific handicap.

No it shouldn't. It's up to the university to certify people and if they can't pass the university's exams the same as everyone else, then they shouldn't be qualified to practice medicine. I can sympathize with investing so much money in a program only to not pass, but quite frankly using her handicap to force them to pass her is sickening.

[CaptainZoidberg]

How the fuck is she supposed to read a medical chart or a prescription label? Should the hospital go out of their way to convert those just to accommodate her?

You're not getting what I'm saying. If the job they have requires the doctor to read medical charts and prescription labels, then they wouldn't hire her because her license would be flagged with a description of her accomodations.

No it shouldn't. It's up to the university to certify people and if they can't pass the university's exams the same as everyone else, then they shouldn't be qualified to practice medicine. I can sympathize with investing so much money in a program only to not pass, but quite frankly using her handicap to force them to pass her is sickening.

But it's not giving her the same license, the license is getting flagged so that any potential employers understand her limitations.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Look, I'm not saying that one can perform all the functions of a doctor if one can't read very well, but it ought to be the hospital's choice to decide if they need someone with that specific handicap.

Why? Why should a hospital administrator be burdened with that choice and people's lives be potentially put at risk by someone's subjective choice?

The test is objective. If the person has found a way to work around their disorder then they can pass the test. If not, then they are probably too risky to be allowed to practice.

I agree. And her reading handicap must not be that severe if she was able to do the essays.

Essays are actually less tricky than a multiple choice exam, or a form.

The reason is that IIRC people who are dyslexic transpose visual images in their heads. So answers A and C would be confused in her head.

The alternative is that she just legitimately failed the multiple choice section

[Keevan_Colton]

Not all medicine is working in a hospital. There's no real issues with these sorts of things where a general practice is concerned. And also, just so you know, medications are coded by shape and colour. For example fluoxetine is always a cylindrical shaped capsule with one half green the other cream. The reason is to help ensure that mislabelling doesn't cause any problems since the contents can be checked by seeing if it matches the right shape and colour coding that the label lists.

I've known quite a few people with varying forms of dyslexia and similar conditions and not all of them had problems with essay answers since reading and writing are different skills, much like listening and talking are. In some cases the universities (I've attended several) would provide dictaphones or facilities to type essay answers. It sounds as though the complaint has more to do with the university failing to provide support for disabled students.

I can quite agree that in an emergency room this could be a serious impairment, but there is a lot more to medicine than that. For the same reason military pilots have higher health requirements that civil pilots the requirements for those in life or death situations should be higher, but serving as a general practitioner is not such a role.

[General Zod]

You're not getting what I'm saying. If the job they have requires the doctor to read medical charts and prescription labels, then they wouldn't hire her because her license would be flagged with a description of her accomodations.

You're a fucking idiot. Being able to read things like medical charts, prescription labels, and equipment monitors is precisely what a Doctor does, among other duties. Yet you expect the university to let her be certified anyway even though she can't pass the exams necessary? ANY job where someone's life is at risk from a mistake should have very strict qualifications, and if a person can't hack it as well as someone without any disabilities they shouldn't be certified or hired.

But it's not giving her the same license, the license is getting flagged so that any potential employers understand her limitations.

You have yet to explain why she should get the license in the first place aside from some idiotic notion of "fairness". Once again we're talking about a job where mistakes can get people killed. Quite frankly I see no reason to certify someone who can't hack it just because they have a disability as opposed to someone who can't hack it without a disability.

[Alyrium Denryle]

I can quite agree that in an emergency room this could be a serious impairment, but there is a lot more to medicine than that. For the same reason military pilots have higher health requirements that civil pilots the requirements for those in life or death situations should be higher, but serving as a general practitioner is not such a role.

SHe still has to go through a rather lengthy residency period, where she, you know... isnt a GP and does everything under the sun.

[Solauren]

Sure your parents give you multiple choice exames
>snip<

Speaking of reading problems. . .you realize it said patients and not parents, right?

He's knows, that was just part of the joke. Why would patient tell you not to do that (unless you were actually about to)?

Ding.Ding.Ding. We have a winner. I figured it was a nice illustration of the problem at hand. Change one word, and while the meaning of the questions may not chance (multiple choices, and who gives them), the response is can be radically different.

Now, then, seriously. Patients DO give you multiple choice exams. A given symptom or set of symptoms could have multple possible causes and treatments. And if you have to read up on a disease or two to isolate which one a patient has, your reading comprehension becomes vital for accurate treatment.

[Solauren]

Ghetto edit;

sorry, that should read "response's", not "response is"

[Kanastrous]

There are enough deaths every year, from physicians and pharmacists mis-communicating on scrips. Dyslexic medical professionals in the mix, sure looks like more opportunities, for the same.

[Superboy]

You're not getting what I'm saying. If the job they have requires the doctor to read medical charts and prescription labels, then they wouldn't hire her because her license would be flagged with a description of her accomodations.

Every physician job requires reading skills. Saying that they should let the hospitals decide if they should hire her is as stupid as saying doctors shouldn't need to graduate at all, let hospitals decide if they want to hire doctors with no training.