Could You Afford to be Poor?

[Broomstick]

That's pretty shitty 'government help' if people need to afford to go to uni. In the People's Republic of Aussiestan, if you pass the means test, you essentially just fill out some forms and all your tuition fees are deferred until you're working and your annual income exceeds a limit. Perhaps it's because universities are mostly private in America? Our Ivy League equivalents are all public.

No, I'd say most of our universities are actually public in the sense of being state schools - the ones with a state name in them, like University of Michigan, Michigan State University (yes, those are two separate schools), University of Georgia, etc.

Actually, private schools may give students a better financial aid package - I would up going to a private school because it was 1/2 my out-of-pocket cost compared to going to a public college.

Actually, how do students get medical certificates for illness in America? For example if you wake up with a bad cold and need to miss a class, do you need to pay to see a doctor and get a certificate?

I'm not sure what you mean be "certificate" - here's how medical care for students works (or doesn't) in the US:

1) Parents have good insurance and it covers children while they in college, until they get their first degree.

2) The university offers health insurance or a clinic to enrolled students - given that some schools in the US are essentially the size of small towns, approximately 20,000 students in one I know about, the school is able to obtain group insurance.

3) If neither one nor two then the students get to go to the city's free clinic or the ER like all the other "evil" poor people.

Students with headcolds would probably force themselves to go to class, or simply stay in bed. Miss too much class you fail, fail too many classes you are booted out of school.

[Master of Cards]

This is just for high school but if you miss one or two days due to bein sick they just take your word on it (parental note etc).

[Lusankya]

That's pretty shitty 'government help' if people need to afford to go to uni. In the People's Republic of Aussiestan, if you pass the means test, you essentially just fill out some forms and all your tuition fees are deferred until you're working and your annual income exceeds a limit. Perhaps it's because universities are mostly private in America? Our Ivy League equivalents are all public.

Since when is HECS/CSA/Whatever they're calling it this year means tested? You just pay less if you pay it up front.

[CaptainZoidberg]

That's pretty shitty 'government help' if people need to afford to go to uni. In the People's Republic of Aussiestan, if you pass the means test, you essentially just fill out some forms and all your tuition fees are deferred until you're working and your annual income exceeds a limit. Perhaps it's because universities are mostly private in America? Our Ivy League equivalents are all public.

Yes, most of the top tier schools in the US are private. But they have such enormous financial resources that they concentrate on so few kids that they can afford to pay for all of their students education. But those schools only admit a handful of students, and are dwarfed by the large state schools.

As for the costs of private vs. public, in my experience public is far cheaper. The small private engineering school I'm going to, Worcester Polytechnic Institute, is about 30k a year, as opposed to a state school which is almost always 20k. Although a few of the private schools I applied to got down to about 24k.

[Simplicius]

No, I'd say most of our universities are actually public in the sense of being state schools - the ones with a state name in them, like University of Michigan, Michigan State University (yes, those are two separate schools), University of Georgia, etc.

Actually, private schools may give students a better financial aid package - I would up going to a private school because it was 1/2 my out-of-pocket cost compared to going to a public college.

On the other hand, the tuitions of private schools can be absolutely absurd compared to state schools - if they didn't offer much assistance it would be impossible for people of modest means to attend without incurring excessive debt, and if their financial packages are loan-heavy that aid itself is something of an obstacle to enrollment.

Going to a state school also opens up access to funds, tax breaks, etc. provided by state governments for in-state students.

[Master of Ossus]

If her economic conditions is as bad as you say they should have over half of the college paid to them by financial need grants, a good amount will be covered by federal subsidized loans and the remainder should be covered by non-subsidized loan which payments can be deferred until 6 months after graduation. That's what I am getting for this year. Possible that they may get a better deal than that.

Uh-huh. Without a car, just physically getting him to a campus is a bitch, you know? It's not just tuition/grants/etc... it's transportation, too. And, apparently, the schools are expecting his father to chip in and that's just not going to happen. They know about financial aid, but discussing stuff is difficult when just keeping a phone line operational is a major financial strain.

What sort of school is this person trying to attend? It may be that community college is a good option, since the tuition is usually low enough and the hours short enough that they can work a part-time job and essentially pay their costs of enrollment before transfering to a more prestigious university for the final two years.

Also, some private schools basically pick up the entire tab, so there's no out-of-pocket expense for the family. Depending on grades and ability, that may also be something worth looking into.

Edit: Also, most four-year colleges and universities (all?) also provide a small cost-of-living stipend, since they know that students have to live, eat, etc.

[Alyrium Denryle]

I managed to work my way through university. First two years I lived off grants, scholarships and a modest student loan, using public transportation the first year (and a job at safeway to pay living expenses) and the second year I had enough squirreled away that I found a cheap ass apartment with a friend near campus and was rather comfy.

Last two years I worked in a lab and made enough to live on campus proper, with my line of work actually contributing to my education. I know this is not possible for everyone, but they may be able to find work arounds.

[Broomstick]

Going to a state school also opens up access to funds, tax breaks, etc. provided by state governments for in-state students.

In some circumstances, yes, in-state school is a good option but sometimes, for a particular field of study, you may have to go outside your state. Also, I wound up going to a private, out-of-state school because the financial aid they offered was substantial enough that MY out-of-pocket costs were lower doing that than the alternative.

[Broomstick]

What sort of school is this person trying to attend?

I have no idea, I have not discussed the details with my sister. She is, however, college-educated herself so she is quite aware of the pros and cons of the various alternatives.

It may be that community college is a good option, since the tuition is usually low enough and the hours short enough that they can work a part-time job and essentially pay their costs of enrollment before transfering to a more prestigious university for the final two years.

Well, that would work - except in their area he would need a CAR to get to the community college and, frankly, I don't see either him or his mother being able to obtain one in the near future. Mass transit will take him to the four-year university, but the costs are higher for tuition.

If my own situation were better I'd consider giving her my old car and buying a new one but that is not a viable option at the moment. A reliable and wholly-owned car would make such a difference in their lives right now.

Last I heard they were considering an out-of-state four-year university with a sufficiently compact campus he could get around by bike or bus. They'd rent a car/van in the fall to get him there and he'd essentially be there until spring, maybe a trip home over winter break.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

My full college education should be paid for without loans by the government, and in fact has been--I got $1,025 in living support + all tuition paid for summer quarter, and I have $1,500 in living support + all tuition paid for fall quarter, and I should get larger sums once I'm out of a community college and into WSU--and none of that is loans, all grants so far. I anticipate graduating with less than five thousand dollars in debt, all of it subsidized federal loans, when my income will be 60k + a year if I don't go on to more schooling and enter straight into the workfore.

It depends on how old she is--I qualify for that much because I'm 25, they don't take my parents into account because of that, and because I made almost no money at all the year before. Since financial aid is based on the prior year's income, if you'll never afford college any other way, living homeless with no job for a year and then applying might actually be a viable, if horribly dangerous, way of going about things.

[starslayer]

Also, most four-year colleges and universities (all?) also provide a small cost-of-living stipend, since they know that students have to live, eat, etc.

Eh? Maybe this is just another example of the UC's atrocious management, but they don't give you shit unless you're going to graduate school. Undergrads get nada from them.

[CaptainZoidberg]

Eh? Maybe this is just another example of the UC's atrocious management, but they don't give you shit unless you're going to graduate school. Undergrads get nada from them.

I know of no schools that provide a cost of living stipend. Certainly none that I applied to did.

They do of course provide room and board for students living on campus.

[nickolay1]

As for the costs of private vs. public, in my experience public is far cheaper. The small private engineering school I'm going to, Worcester Polytechnic Institute, is about 30k a year, as opposed to a state school which is almost always 20k. Although a few of the private schools I applied to got down to about 24k.

I looked up the cost for the primary public university in your state, the University of Maryland. $7,969 for tuition and fees for resident students. At WPI, it's $36,390. Neither of these include housing, etc. How did you arrive at those figures?

[Master of Ossus]

Eh? Maybe this is just another example of the UC's atrocious management, but they don't give you shit unless you're going to graduate school. Undergrads get nada from them.

Well, the UC's are a notoriously hideous institution in terms of fiscal matters, but they don't include a travel allowance, room and board, and expense allowance within their financial aid package? I would be very surprised by that, since I thought that was the standard.

[CaptainZoidberg]

I looked up the cost for the primary public university in your state, the University of Maryland. $7,969 for tuition and fees for resident students. At WPI, it's $36,390. Neither of these include housing, etc. How did you arrive at those figures?

Board/housing brings WPI to 47k. Grants brought it down to a little under 30k. UMD costs about 19k with room and board.

[nickolay1]

Board/housing brings WPI to 47k. Grants brought it down to a little under 30k. UMD costs about 19k with room and board.

Does UMD not offer similar grants or other aid?

[CaptainZoidberg]

Board/housing brings WPI to 47k. Grants brought it down to a little under 30k. UMD costs about 19k with room and board.

Does UMD not offer similar grants or other aid?

I wasn't accepted at UMD so I have no personal data to offer. But I have friends who had similar rates of acceptances as me at other colleges who got 10-20k of aid from Maryland.

[starslayer]

Well, the UC's are a notoriously hideous institution in terms of fiscal matters, but they don't include a travel allowance, room and board, and expense allowance within their financial aid package? I would be very surprised by that, since I thought that was the standard.

To my knowledge, about the only aid the UC gives out itself is either a Regents scholarship (flat money), some smaller need-based ones (again, flat money pool) or loans (all for undergrads). They do not offer room and board discounts, travel costs, or anything else of that sort, IIRC. Their graduate program offers fellowships and stipends for pretty much everyone (in physics, anyways).

[Junghalli]

Hmm, that bit about cooking did get me looking at hot plates on online catalogs and I think I've managed to find one hot plate type thingie for $20. Of course, then you still have to buy a pan, and most of them were more like $60.

[ArmorPierce]

Well, the UC's are a notoriously hideous institution in terms of fiscal matters, but they don't include a travel allowance, room and board, and expense allowance within their financial aid package? I would be very surprised by that, since I thought that was the standard.

To my knowledge, about the only aid the UC gives out itself is either a Regents scholarship (flat money), some smaller need-based ones (again, flat money pool) or loans (all for undergrads). They do not offer room and board discounts, travel costs, or anything else of that sort, IIRC. Their graduate program offers fellowships and stipends for pretty much everyone (in physics, anyways).

I think that he is talking about the college including your expenses for eating and transportation for the year in calculating the financial aid. Here's an example:

Budget Detail Budget Component Amount
Tuition and Fees

$10,800.00
Room and Board

$10,000.00
Books and Supples

$1,300.00
Transportation

$1,200.00
Miscellaneous

$2,300.00
Total:

$25,600.00

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Miscellaneous and transportation expenses can be cut out by someone willing to buy absolutely nothing, living on cafeteria food, and never leave campus, and that stretches out the grant money pretty nicely to cover room and board and tuition/books, since they're awarded based on the assumption such money will be spent.

[Mayabird]

Going to a state school also opens up access to funds, tax breaks, etc. provided by state governments for in-state students.

In some circumstances, yes, in-state school is a good option but sometimes, for a particular field of study, you may have to go outside your state. Also, I wound up going to a private, out-of-state school because the financial aid they offered was substantial enough that MY out-of-pocket costs were lower doing that than the alternative.

At least in the southeast, there's the Academic Common Market for situations where a major isn't offered in one particular state but is in another. Basically, if some guy in, say, Arkansas wants to be, for example, an aerospace engineer, but there are no AE programs in Arkansas, he can go to another state and get in-state tuition there (in fact, I knew two guys who did exactly that...granted, they picked AE specifically so they could get out of Arkansas without ending up seriously in debt, but hey).

[ArmorPierce]

Miscellaneous and transportation expenses can be cut out by someone willing to buy absolutely nothing, living on cafeteria food, and never leave campus, and that stretches out the grant money pretty nicely to cover room and board and tuition/books, since they're awarded based on the assumption such money will be spent.

hell books and supplies can be cut down by buying your books used online getting older editions (not always recommended, but a lot edition changes has almost no changes at all) or borrowing book from someone you know that took the class before and selling back books. Two semesters ago I spend about $600 on books at which point I got fed up and now buy online whatever book I can. Also I think my school's book store will buy back books even if you didn't buy it from them so that comes to me spending almost nothing on certain books.

[Darth Wong]

I don't see why scholarships should be relevant in a discussion like this. Not everyone gets a scholarship, so you can't discuss university costs for the population at large on that basis.

Schooling is actually a particular financial burden which weighs most heavily upon the middle class. The wealthy class and its paid politicians have systematically gutted education systems while liberal educators have adopted all manner of foolish policies designed to handcuff teachers and let students run wild, thus creating a perfect storm of underfunded public schools and unruly students who cannot be disciplined. The result is that parents flee the public school system and go to private schools if they want to get a good education and/or avoid violent or disruptive students. But private schooling (and subsequent university) is a heavy financial burden for the middle class, who are neither poor enough to get financial aid or rich enough to shrug it off.

[Winston Blake]

Since when is HECS/CSA/Whatever they're calling it this year means tested? You just pay less if you pay it up front.

Huh. I don't know what I was thinking. Somehow I had in my head 'don't use it -> can't use it'.