The Endor Holocaust

Battlehymn Republic · Post by **Battlehymn Republic** » 2008-07-30 09:30pm

How do proponents of the Endor Holocaust accomodate the whole post-victory party into the theory? I mean, why would the Rebel Alliance celebrate on a doomed moon?

skies · Post by **skies** » 2008-07-30 10:24pm

Battlehymn Republic wrote:How do proponents of the Endor Holocaust accomodate the whole post-victory party into the theory? I mean, why would the Rebel Alliance celebrate on a doomed moon?

Or for that matter, since the rebel fleet was between the DS2 and Endor, anything the fleet could survive from the DS2's destruction, a planetary field should be able to handle with ease. Maybe large portion of the energy was emitted as neutrinos just as was suggested for shield emissions. A larg part of the DS2 was fuel, Hypermatter reactor, etc...

dragon · Post by **dragon** » 2008-07-31 02:14am

Ender wrote:
dragon wrote:
Ender wrote:*thwack* Bad poster! Bad! Don't violate the laws of thermodynamics! Shields reradiate the energy out into the surroundings in the form of neutrinos.
Picky aren't you its not as if most scifi doesn't violate some law or another. And that radiating neutrinos was just thrown into the mix to keep some people happy.
Care to prove that it was "thrown into the mix to keep some people happy", and not that it is a valid explanation for how they radiate away the energy when we see no visible radiators or otherwise expected release? Do keep in mind that supernovas release the bulk of their energy in the form of neutrinos, meaning it mirrors a natural process.

Man I was being sarcasitic. But in all honesty how often do we see in scifi where someone makes something up inorder to explain something.

DrStrangelove · Post by **DrStrangelove** » 2008-07-31 05:15pm

Battlehymn Republic wrote:How do proponents of the Endor Holocaust accomodate the whole post-victory party into the theory? I mean, why would the Rebel Alliance celebrate on a doomed moon?

propaganda

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2008-07-31 05:37pm

DrStrangelove wrote:
Battlehymn Republic wrote:How do proponents of the Endor Holocaust accomodate the whole post-victory party into the theory? I mean, why would the Rebel Alliance celebrate on a doomed moon?
propaganda

Yes, the directly observed content of the filmic canon is propaganda and fake, right.

DrStrangelove · Post by **DrStrangelove** » 2008-07-31 06:01pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:
DrStrangelove wrote:
Battlehymn Republic wrote:How do proponents of the Endor Holocaust accomodate the whole post-victory party into the theory? I mean, why would the Rebel Alliance celebrate on a doomed moon?
propaganda
Yes, the directly observed content of the filmic canon is propaganda and fake, right.

NOT fake as in not really happening, but fake in that they're having a party to gloss over the fact that they've doomed the moon and everything on it

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2008-07-31 06:06pm

Their point is that the moon should already be dead hours after a 900 km battlestation exploded a couple thousand km above the moon.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2008-07-31 06:14pm

DrStrangelove wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote:
DrStrangelove wrote:propaganda
Yes, the directly observed content of the filmic canon is propaganda and fake, right.
NOT fake as in not really happening, but fake in that they're having a party to gloss over the fact that they've doomed the moon and everything on it

Despite the fact that members of the Alliance Command were propagandists and former politicians, I am inclined to believe that the celebration shown at the end of RotJ is exactly what it appears to be: a spontaneous event, probably only tacitly sanctioned by those in command. Implying that someone within the Alliance Fleet hierarchy saw the Death Star explode, recognized the impending disaster, and thought that they could marginally add to the overwhelming psychological victory of the day by endangering the lives of hundreds if not thousands of soldiers and command crew on a doomed world demonstrates an unfair lack of faith in their collective judgment. I could see that kind of incompetence manifesting itself within the New Republic in its waning days, but even that’s a stretch.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2008-07-31 06:38pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Their point is that the moon should already be dead hours after a 900 km battlestation exploded a couple thousand km above the moon.

Unless there was a very large radiation flash associated with the explosion, the repulsor should have cleared the debris from the planet. And given that we know they erected a local shield, the radiation is unlikely to be a threat.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2008-07-31 06:40pm

Also, most of the newie questions being asked here are already answered

Battlehymn Republic · Post by **Battlehymn Republic** » 2008-07-31 09:36pm

Man, the Rebels sure are some cold-hearted sumbitches.

Darth Culator · Post by **Darth Culator** » 2008-08-01 04:03am

The Sunstar eats gamma radiation and the Season Scepter has a "fix nuclear winter" setting. Problem solved.

The Prime Necromancer · Post by **The Prime Necromancer** » 2008-08-01 05:18am

Ender wrote:On topic Connor and I were picking each others brains last night, and a possible solution arouse out of the discussions. The repulsor cradle. Given its proximity to the planet the FME had to use repulsors to keep the station in orbit. This provides for the existance of a facility in the system capable of shifting around the mass of the entire Death Star. Using it to protect against the debris, which would only be ~8% of the total mass, is easily within its limits. Thus the debris could e deflected with ease. This leaves only the question of the radiation flash as a danger, making the situation considerably easier to resolve.

Why would a repulsor cradle be innately so much better at dealing with high momentum impacts than a planetary shield? What bracing/compensation system applies to a repulsor generator that can't be applied to a shield generator?

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2008-08-01 08:41am

Darth Culator wrote:The Sunstar eats gamma radiation and the Season Scepter has a "fix nuclear winter" setting. Problem solved.

Oh yeah, Endor has all those wacky Force-imbued objects and artifacts. That'll probably do some good as well.

Vehrec · Post by **Vehrec** » 2008-08-01 09:04am

The Prime Necromancer wrote:
Ender wrote:On topic Connor and I were picking each others brains last night, and a possible solution arouse out of the discussions. The repulsor cradle. Given its proximity to the planet the FME had to use repulsors to keep the station in orbit. This provides for the existance of a facility in the system capable of shifting around the mass of the entire Death Star. Using it to protect against the debris, which would only be ~8% of the total mass, is easily within its limits. Thus the debris could e deflected with ease. This leaves only the question of the radiation flash as a danger, making the situation considerably easier to resolve.
Why would a repulsor cradle be innately so much better at dealing with high momentum impacts than a planetary shield? What bracing/compensation system applies to a repulsor generator that can't be applied to a shield generator?

'
Time is the answer. Time for debris to get to Endor and possibly be deflected by repulsors is much greater than the Time that would be available to instantly stop it with a shield. It's a more elegant solution if just enough force is applied to divert the debris, something that should easily be possible if there is anyone left alive at the controls who doesn't want to die with the planet.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2008-08-01 11:23am

EDIT: NM, math is not something I should do so shortly after getting back from the gym. Force of the debris would be ~100-1000x greater then the force of stationkeeping, but that is treating it all as one mass. Spread out, the repulsor should still handily deflect it, though the FME would still see periodic bombardment from deflected pieces falling into the gravity well over time.

Imperial Overlord · Post by **Imperial Overlord** » 2008-08-01 01:41pm

Ender wrote:

On topic Connor and I were picking each others brains last night, and a possible solution arouse out of the discussions. The repulsor cradle.

Nice. I know neither of you needs a pat on the back from me, but that is good work.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2008-08-01 03:13pm

Wow, poking through Wookiepedia to double check my figures, it gives the FME a Diameter of 4900 km, and a gravity 85% that of Earth. That means it has a density of 12,194 kgm^3.

The Death Star isn't going to kill them. The heavy metals will. The bulk of the planet will be Palladium or Ruthenium. Not exactly conducive to good health.

Anyone able to confirm those values from Geonosis and the Outer RIm or the ITW:OT?

Dooey Jo · Post by **Dooey Jo** » 2008-08-01 03:36pm

If it were that small, the DS2 would be really tiny; certainly not 900 km, which is almost a fifth of that. They probably meant "radius".

Darth Hoth · Post by **Darth Hoth** » 2008-08-01 04:09pm

Ender wrote:Wow, poking through Wookiepedia to double check my figures, it gives the FME a Diameter of 4900 km, and a gravity 85% that of Earth. That means it has a density of 12,194 kgm^3.

The Death Star isn't going to kill them. The heavy metals will. The bulk of the planet will be Palladium or Ruthenium. Not exactly conducive to good health.

Anyone able to confirm those values from Geonosis and the Outer RIm or the ITW:OT?

No hard numbers turn up after a quick check through the ITW; it does mention Endor's "relatively light gravity", but nothing more substantial.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2008-08-01 04:30pm

GATORW has FME at a diameter of 4900 km.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2008-08-01 04:40pm

VT-16 wrote:GATORW has FME at a diameter of 4900 km.

That cant be right, that has got to be a typo and be radius or something. Any indication that that may be the case?

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2008-08-01 05:39pm

Nope, sorry.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2008-08-01 07:00pm

Fuck Wizards.

The Prime Necromancer · Post by **The Prime Necromancer** » 2008-08-01 07:39pm

Vehrec wrote:Time is the answer. Time for debris to get to Endor and possibly be deflected by repulsors is much greater than the Time that would be available to instantly stop it with a shield. It's a more elegant solution if just enough force is applied to divert the debris, something that should easily be possible if there is anyone left alive at the controls who doesn't want to die with the planet.

I'm fairly certain that time is not a factor in regards to the total momentum. Momentum must be conserved, whether the debris is decelerated slowly or very quickly.