Stargate Atlantis 5x04 The Daedalous Variations

[Themightytom]

The Daedalous appears in orbit over Atlantis and the team are sent (Go on their own actually because nowadays thats how they roll) to investigate how it can be there when Stargate commands it is also in the milky way.



SPOILERS DEAR GOD SPOILERS! TURN BACK OR PROCEED AT YOUR OWN RISK!!!!

I wish the jumps had been more significant, one was pretty interesting, but i mean... a sun and an asteroid belt? Whoop de fricking doo...

*it was musical chairs with what system was going to bebroken down next. First they had shields and engines but no power for the beam weapon, then they fired the beam weapon but had to drop shields, than they had no engines or shields.

*Why always the one jumper? Everytime Sam sent one out she ahd three cloaked jumpers following along, does Shepherd never learn??

*Why didn't anyone ask the alternate timeline people whothe F was shooting up Atlantis just in cse they um happen to stroll by again later in the season? Why was no effort made to bring the body back for examination? All they have is a stupid pistol.

*Not buying the "Tap with no valve" explanation, they had plenty o systems they could have shunted the extra power to like Oh say THE SHIELDS? They did it one way why not the other?

*Why all the meladrama?? if they had spacesuits they could avhe walked over to theJumpers through the sealed sections.

*Ronan finally got his ass handed to him, it really doesn't happen enough, but does this mean there were five guys in that one little ship? That must have been crowded.





Eh it was actually pretty good in my book though i wish a few more of the jumpshad been significant

[NecronLord]

One question; were there any jaffa in it? In one of the preview photos I saw, there seemed to be jaffa in Pegasus.

[Tychu]

One question; were there any jaffa in it? In one of the preview photos I saw, there seemed to be jaffa in Pegasus.

No Jaffa sorry

I really liked this episode, the whole "We don't know where we are going to end up" was really great. My little critiques about this episode have already been said however.

And we don't really know if they brought back any of those odd guns. I don't think theres too much room in the spacesuits for that.

[Cecelia5578]

Well, out of all the possible choices of universes they could visit, most probably aren't going to be "significant." Anyhoo, I like how Rodney reference Shep's little time travelling journey RE the sun expanding.

Amanda

[Revy]

Great episode. The first one this new season that didn't feel mediocre IMO. I really liked this. It had it's flaws, but everything does so you can hardly fault it for not being perfect, and those flaws are minor compared to some episodes I've seen.

One thing that interests me - I think we may have just caught a glimpse of our new alien threat for this season. Yes I know Michael and the Wraith are still center stage, but it has been said that a new race will come into play and everyone has been wondering who and what they might be, and wanting a decent explanation for why they havent been seen up until now.

This episode offers not only a new pottential threat, but a perfect explanation for that threats absence. They left the NeoDaedalus jumping through universes, and there may have been more of those invaders on board (as to how many could fit in one tiny ship, for all we know they store troops in a data module like the Wraith use, we've seen Wraith Darts beam entire squads of soldiers onto Atlantis before in The Siege). It's possible that they somehow gain control of the drive and use it to invade our universe.

Their troops are hard enough to beat up Ronan and survive a fair bit of gunfire, and their capship was able to survive three or so hits from an Asgard beam weapon, with the only evident damage being a loss of main weapons. That's quite a feat, assuming 1) that the Asgard beams from this alternate Daedalus arent weaker, and 2) that they werent suffering from a reduced firepower output due to damage.

The reason I think they might be bringing these enemies back is because they seemed to pay special attention to that symbol, which was a tad uneccessary IMO unless they plan on expanding on it in future episodes. Though that's a hunch more than anything else.

At the very least, a few weeks back we asked for someone who could stand up to all these Asgard-suped up 304's and be a deadlier threat than the Wraith, and I think the aliens in this episode might just fit the bill.

[His Divine Shadow]

*Not buying the "Tap with no valve" explanation, they had plenty o systems they could have shunted the extra power to like Oh say THE SHIELDS? They did it one way why not the other?

The tap with no valve sounds like it could be a huge motherfucking powersource of doom. Seriously the writers where stupid not to realize what they got. Build several taps, several capacitors, costs nothing to keep them the going. ZPM's? Why you don't need these anymore, that one tap could create ZPM level power for atleast one instant.

Many many taps and capacitors = holy grail of power generation.

[CaptJodan]

*Why didn't anyone ask the alternate timeline people whothe F was shooting up Atlantis just in cse they um happen to stroll by again later in the season?

This was a lesser, but still important part that I wondered as well. Technically, Shepard was right, it was a long story to explain. But he could have expanded ever-so-slightly on what was going on. In exchange, tell us who these aliens are incase they show up.

*Not buying the "Tap with no valve" explanation, they had plenty o systems they could have shunted the extra power to like Oh say THE SHIELDS? They did it one way why not the other?

This was my biggest gripe with the whole thing. Not 10 seconds after they introduced us to this power source was I saying "Hey, why don't you shunt some power to the shields? Weapons? Lights? Asgard Time Dilation Device? Coffee makers?

The only thing I can figure is that the system was completely independent of other systems, not hooked up in any way and would have taken some major redesign to hook up to other systems. Of course, we had alternate McKay who had plenty of time to do just that, and if the Odyssey is any indication, they could have run power to the Asgard core and made their own food/water/spare parts/etc indefinitely and slowed the rate of jumping. Course, I know we have no direct evidence that everything that was on Odyssey made it to the other ships, but if I recall we have seen Asgard cores on the other ships.

*Why all the meladrama?? if they had spacesuits they could avhe walked over to theJumpers through the sealed sections.

Yeah, that part was pretty overdone. And somehow, long range comms don't work in the spacesuits, but the little ear pieces have at least orbital ranges, with boosting into subspace giving greater range.

The tap with no valve sounds like it could be a huge motherfucking powersource of doom. Seriously the writers where stupid not to realize what they got. Build several taps, several capacitors, costs nothing to keep them the going. ZPM's? Why you don't need these anymore, that one tap could create ZPM level power for atleast one instant.

Many many taps and capacitors = holy grail of power generation.

Realistically, I'd say you're right. This is something Earth should really start pushing to design, but add in one or more taps. But it sounds like it'll go the way of so much technology that Pegasus has provided.

And really, I think it probably should. We've seen the huge problem that Asgard beam weapons+Asgard shields have caused with the drama of the show. The Wraith have to gang up pretty heavily on a 304 to have a chance at taking it out, or lie in ambush. Give Earth an unlimited power source where they could "recharge" ZPMs (if that's even possible) or build their own capacitor system similar to but less efficient than ZPMs that can recharge via this power source and you do away with the need for the endless ZPM hunt.

It'd just be another thing to add to the "Everything" the Asgard gave them (which, apparently, isn't everything, or Earth hasn't taken suitable advantage of the little things that the Asgard have been shown to possess).

[[R_H]]

I'm watching the episode right now, it's a lot better than the other episodes of this season. The hostile ship that was attacking the alternative reality's Atlantis looks a bit like a Star Destroyer.

[Bladed_Crescent]

The hostile ship that was attacking the alternative reality's Atlantis looks a bit like a Star Destroyer.

Aside from the wedge shape, I didn't really notice an similarity, but the alien fighters reminded me of Peacekeeper Prowlers.

That being said, I found this the most enjoyable episode out of the season so far. I was a bit disappointed that the alien commandos/pilots were some kind of electric zombie; if they are going to be the recurring villain, it would be nice for them to have some kind of personality beyond Evil Overlord and Faceless Expendable Goon.

Back in the (third season? fourth?) where they introduced the Travelers, I was thinking that those might be the new villain.

[Strider]

My main gripe was that they didn't make any effort to salvage the anti-Daedalus. It *seems* like Rodney could have programmed it to endlessly jump between their universe and the no-Atlantis base universe endlessly, and have a 50% chance of the drive breaking in their universe and leaving them a useful BC-304 corpse. Best case, they can refurbish it for a fraction of the usual 304 cost; worst case, it's an excellent spare parts boat.

And yeah, seeing the BBoD (Blue Beam of Death) touch something that wasn't Ori or Replicator and not instantly kill it was nice. Space battles in Atlantis were starting to go the way of SSD vs. Xeelee Nightfighter...

[Themightytom]

The only thing I can figure is that the system was completely independent of other systems, not hooked up in any way and would have taken some major redesign to hook up to other systems.

Hmm that sounds suspiciously like Voyager's holodeck, but we SAW Rodney dump shield energy into the drive, as well as life support energy, so it can't be "that" incompatible.

I still would ahve liked to ahve seen a few Goa'uld motherships orbitting atlantis in one universe as a nod to Coninuom, or an Ori ship show up to investigate in another , i realize that probabi;ity suggests not every universe would be exciting but still there's a point where the writers intervene, they did it enough in this story already.

I am pretty sure this is the new alien threat that has been alluded to, they really beat us over the head with that symbol, its the first time i can EVER recall a non earth ship having a label on the outside in this series and they went through a lot of grouble to render those spaceships and fighters whereas a cheap alien of the week might have had some meh space ship and no fighters.

Also their blasters are green, GREEN for gods sake, not white gold or blue bu GREEN! Wow !

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

What was the text on the Daedalus' dedication plaque?

[CaptJodan]

Hmm that sounds suspiciously like Voyager's holodeck, but we SAW Rodney dump shield energy into the drive, as well as life support energy, so it can't be "that" incompatible.

You're right. Forgotten about that. My bad. Guess there is no excuse for them not using that power source to transfer power to shields/weapons/engines/whatever.

Beyond these obvious things that annoyed me, I too agree that this is so far the best episode this season, which is saying something I suppose.

If we make a few assumptions or guesses about the star, would we be able to get an estimate on shield/hull lower/upper limits based off of the distance they were from the star?

[LadyTevar]

We did at least get to see space-fighter p0rn. And it looked very wicked.

[Darksider]

We did at least get to see space-fighter p0rn. And it looked very wicked.

I would have preferred it if It wasn't so one-sided.

Did the alien fighters take down even one of the F-302s?

[Luzifer's right hand]

A good episode.

I was surprised how quickly the F-302s raped those fighters.

What was the text on the Daedalus' dedication plaque?

Here you go.

[Stargate Nerd]

Okay this was easily the best episode of this season so far. And discounting "Be all my sins.." probably the best episode since Season 3. Yes I liked it that much. The action scenes were on point, the dialogue was witty, Ronon was more than Conan in Space and my favorite scifi fighter craft kicked major ass.
It wasn't perfect for sure, but I don't recall SG-1 ever being perfect either. Thanks to this episode I'm actually looking forward to the rest of Season 5.

[Superboy]

Great episode, despite minor flaws.

For a second, when the new alien showed up, I thought it was a Borg.

[Revy]

I think the issue of transferring power from the UniDrive to shields, weapons etc. was a problem not because the shields, weapons and engines lacked power, but because these components were physically damaged. I mean the UniDrive is intact, it just needs power to jump, right? So if you have spare power then you can chuck it in and get it to work faster. But if the physical generators for the shields had a bunch of overloaded and fried circuits, cracked control crystals and generally smashed up parts, then just pumping more power into them from anywhere wont neccessarily make them work any better.

Remember that the NeoDaed had recieved heavy battle damage, and that at least some of the systems were damaged beyond hours worth of dedicated repair time (he said there was no way he could fix the hyperdrive, at least under the circumstances, and the sublight burned out from being shot at not long after he got them working).

So the power/transfer issues didn't seem like a problem to me. And as to the power supply being a holy grail, well it might come up again. McKay wanted to try and build the whole thing (but Sheppard doesnt want to let him) and they did try to build their own version of Arcturus, remember? And when they found that magma/drilling platform under the ocean, they actually remembered to use that as a source of power. So I think we may see that subspace/capacitor design come back again. Possibly.

Another thing I enjoyed about this episode was Teyla. Normally I disslike Teyla, and think she is seriously boring, but in this case it was fantastic to see her actually competant enough to operate the ship, assist McKay in repairs and offer technical advice. It makes sense that with all their spare time at least some of them might get some basic engineering and operating knowledge. McKay learned to fire a P90 like Jackson, after all, so why couldnt the rest of the team learn to do his kind of work? It made sense. Also, it was nice to see that, whilst, yes, McKay was 90% responsible for saving them, again, that this time they at least allowed someone else to chip in (something Sheppard admitedly does on occasion, though rarely).

I actually think that they would have been better putting Carter on Sheppards team and ditching Ronan or Teyla, so that they would have at least two scientists able to work together to solve the inevitable 'situation of doom' for each odd episode, because as much as I like McKay I think it's a bit much to be having him doing most of the heavy lifting whenever a situation calls for something other than 'shoot the bad guys'. I mean if this were an RPG game, you wouldnt pick three fighters and one mage, would you? But thats what Sheppards team basically is. You balance a team out though, in terms of skills. Ronan and Sheppard are the fighters, and they should have two science/technical wizards to even things out. It makes more sense than having the fate of everything rest with one guy, who can't be everywhere at once and only has one pair of hands.

I'm rambling. I just think it'd be good to see Teyla continue to display some useful technical skills beyond beating people up, and it would make for a better overall team dynamic.

[His Divine Shadow]

Oh yeah, I'd like to see more M4's in Stargate. I dunno I think they should have more of those. The 5.56 is a more powerfull round and the M4 package is not much more bulky than the P90. Seems to me they use the P90 mainly because it's funky looking. I prefer the worn and used conventional M4s.

I also like Sheppards custom 1911.

[NecronLord]

*Not buying the "Tap with no valve" explanation, they had plenty o systems they could have shunted the extra power to like Oh say THE SHIELDS? They did it one way why not the other?

The tap with no valve sounds like it could be a huge motherfucking powersource of doom. Seriously the writers where stupid not to realize what they got. Build several taps, several capacitors, costs nothing to keep them the going. ZPM's? Why you don't need these anymore, that one tap could create ZPM level power for atleast one instant.

We're assuming that the subspace tap can be made that can be turned off. It might be quite problematic to install them on Atlantis, or warships. Of course, this might actually be part of how one creates ZPMs. Big banks of subspace taps powering up a new one. There'd be minimal risk, if like Asuras, you just cranked out ZPMs indefinately. I'd not be too surprised to see McKay try something using the same principle again in the future, though.

This was my biggest gripe with the whole thing. Not 10 seconds after they introduced us to this power source was I saying "Hey, why don't you shunt some power to the shields? Weapons? Lights? Asgard Time Dilation Device? Coffee makers?

I'm going to assume that the tap with no valve was plumbed straight into the capacitor, and that the capacitor could only discharge into the dimension-drive, without re-wiring (a live capacitor containing immense energy) so while you could put more energy into the capacitor, the capacitor's 'out' went directly to the dimension-drive, and because the system was active and there was no one to help, McKay couldn't do anything about it without running a very high risk of accidentally frying himself.

This is a poor design, but assuming there was some means of turning the tap off in the original design, that didn't work, it wouldn't be so problematic. It's hardly truly bizzare in the same way, say, Voyager's mysterious holodeck energy is.

It'd just be another thing to add to the "Everything" the Asgard gave them (which, apparently, isn't everything, or Earth hasn't taken suitable advantage of the little things that the Asgard have been shown to possess).

Eh. I'd think that most sophisticated examples of Asgard technology take an actual Asgard-level resource base to manufacture. Which Earth doesn't yet have.

I still would ahve liked to ahve seen a few Goa'uld motherships orbitting atlantis in one universe as a nod to Coninuom, or an Ori ship show up to investigate in another , i realize that probabi;ity suggests not every universe would be exciting but still there's a point where the writers intervene, they did it enough in this story already.

I really would have liked one Atlantis to have been Her'ak popping up on the screen saying "Identify yourselves in the name of Lord Anubis, Master of Pegasus!"

He did search for the Lost City, after all...

I am pretty sure this is the new alien threat that has been alluded to, they really beat us over the head with that symbol, its the first time i can EVER recall a non earth ship having a label on the outside in this series and they went through a lot of grouble to render those spaceships and fighters whereas a cheap alien of the week might have had some meh space ship and no fighters.

Well, goa'uld ships have all sorts of decorative markings on them. But not an actual symbol in the same way.

I actually think that they would have been better putting Carter on Sheppards team and ditching Ronan or Teyla, so that they would have at least two scientists able to work together to solve the inevitable 'situation of doom' for each odd episode, because as much as I like McKay I think it's a bit much to be having him doing most of the heavy lifting whenever a situation calls for something other than 'shoot the bad guys'. I mean if this were an RPG game, you wouldnt pick three fighters and one mage, would you? But thats what Sheppards team basically is. You balance a team out though, in terms of skills. Ronan and Sheppard are the fighters, and they should have two science/technical wizards to even things out. It makes more sense than having the fate of everything rest with one guy, who can't be everywhere at once and only has one pair of hands.

Technically, if it were the SG1 RPG, they'd be Pointman/Soldier/Scientist/Explorer, which is perfectly viable. So there.

Sheppard's a generalist/pilot, Ronon's a tank, McKay's the scientist, and Teyla's the one with the contacts, who actually knows people on various planets. They just don't really diversify Ronon or Teyla beyond their assigned roles enough. I gave a rant a while back on how I'd have at least one sub-plot over a few episodes of Ronon sitting around listening to Ancient/Asgard holograms give technical lectures (also, I liked Ganos Lal...) based on his 'I should learn some science' speech from First Strike.

[CaptJodan]

Remember that the NeoDaed had recieved heavy battle damage, and that at least some of the systems were damaged beyond hours worth of dedicated repair time (he said there was no way he could fix the hyperdrive, at least under the circumstances, and the sublight burned out from being shot at not long after he got them working).

At the very least, it was a power issue regarding the weapons, which worked just fine and didn't have overload issues, and McKay specifically said they only had enough energy for a couple shots. I don't remember verbatum about other systems, but I'll see if I can see it later.

Another thing I enjoyed about this episode was Teyla.

I think what helped to make this a good episode was that everyone contributed to the ultimate solution in one way or another. Ronon was out of his element firing the railguns, but he sure was trying, and not only did Teyla give Rodney some help, but Shepard's original idea of putting it in reverse ultimately was the solution Rodney had to come to on his own. For once, it wasn't about X team member being the expert in fighting or science or whatever, but the culmination of an actual, honest to Baal TEAM effort.

I'm going to assume that the tap with no valve was plumbed straight into the capacitor, and that the capacitor could only discharge into the dimension-drive, without re-wiring (a live capacitor containing immense energy) so while you could put more energy into the capacitor, the capacitor's 'out' went directly to the dimension-drive, and because the system was active and there was no one to help, McKay couldn't do anything about it without running a very high risk of accidentally frying himself.

This is a poor design, but assuming there was some means of turning the tap off in the original design, that didn't work, it wouldn't be so problematic. It's hardly truly bizzare in the same way, say, Voyager's mysterious holodeck energy is.

This episode had a decent-sized layer of technobabble within it, and they went out of their way to describe several things to us about the drive and what was and wasn't possible. I just as soon the writers had one small line describing why the transfer wasn't possible, and this whole thing goes away. The way it was done does make alternate McKay that designed this look like a raging idiot (if your assumption is close to correct).

Eh. I'd think that most sophisticated examples of Asgard technology take an actual Asgard-level resource base to manufacture. Which Earth doesn't yet have.

They can make beam weapons of doom, some of the most advanced shields in the SG universe, copy the Asgard core (presumably with an Asgard power source), yet they can't create the tiny device that allows for creating an activate gate without the ka-woosh and with no delay for dialing? I'm not exactly asking for O'Neill style vessels, here, or even the transferring of consciousnesses from one body to the other. I understand that stuff would take time to develop (And for the former, I'd imagine it would come about more like RJB's Phoenix fanfic ship, a Earth/Asgard hybrid than anything else). But an auto-dialer is something the Asgard core presumably could whip up as it did with water, food, violins, or Replicators. And would be exceedingly handy on missions where remote dialing would be helpful, or as a quick way to establish a connection.

(Let's face it, the "Everything" that the Asgard claim to have given Earth was a massive, massive writers mistake. If you don't show them at least using a lot of Asgard technology within a few years, then the claim is suspect as one would expect Earth to work fast to take advantage of that knowledge. It would have been somewhat better had Thor simply said "All of our history, some of our technology" or something to that effect.)

[Timotheus]

We did at least get to see space-fighter p0rn. And it looked very wicked.

I would have preferred it if It wasn't so one-sided.

Did the alien fighters take down even one of the F-302s?

It seems to be fairly standard in Stargate that Earth is one of the few races that cares to train its pilots.

Everyone else just throws mass waves at their enemy and wins through attrition.

Personally I was glad to see the Asgard weapons damage the enemy ship. I was going to be irritated beyond all belief if we got another "oh no uber enemy our weapons cannot hurt" foe to replace the Wraith.

As an homage to the Asgard (and their very poor death) I would like their weapons to stay pound for pound the best or at least comparable to anything encountered for a good long while.

[His Divine Shadow]

Stargate is gonna go down the fucking drain real soon if they are gonna keep on upping the powers and abilities of new enemies. Frankly they've taken that too far already. Every new villain doesn't have to be a greater threat than the other. I miss the goa'uld days.

[Luzifer's right hand]

Personally I was glad to see the Asgard weapons damage the enemy ship. I was going to be irritated beyond all belief if we got another "oh no uber enemy our weapons cannot hurt" foe to replace the Wraith.
.

That could still change the aliens reappear, for all we know the ship battled a ship(or ships) defending Atlantis and the city used all it's drones on it a minute before the Daedalus jumped in.