SDNWorld Redux - Casting Call & Planning

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Just a question to clear up my confusion: Beowulf, is your (x4) for fighters a multiplier for cost, or is it refering to quantity?

[Setzer]

It's quantity. They come in groups of 4, so 3 points get you 12 3rd generation fighters.

[Beowulf]

Beowulf, I take it the army template you have is based on the idea of the latest equipment?

Also, do we have to account for UAVs as well?

Yeah, it assumes latest equipement. If you want to make the template units cheaper (and thus your army more numerous), just switch them out.

UAVs depends on the type. Predators et al... well... there's no space launch yet, so you couldn't control them past local areas anyway. The smaller hand launched UAVs? Just take them. It's like how MANPADs that infantry cart around aren't counted either.

A Tu-142 is actually more of a strategic bomber than anything else. However, if it's outfitted for maritime patrol, it could quite feasibly run as a HMP aircraft.

The x4 (x60, x120) are referring to quantity. So 4 points can get you anywhere from 4 to 32 fighters, depending on size and age.

I was actually planning on creating a OOB thread tomorrow, with the applicable information and links inside.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

A Tu-142 is actually more of a strategic bomber than anything else. However, if it's outfitted for maritime patrol, it could quite feasibly run as a HMP aircraft.

Yeah I was thinking of outfitting those with anti-ship missiles, torpedoes and what not, along with a radar for patrol (similar to the one they are using for the P-3C Orion).

[Shroom Man 777]

Why can't we already have some limited space assets? It's not like our world is a blank slate...

Maybe the FASTA's mission to Selene isn't the first-ever moon mission, but an effort to return to the moon after Neil Shroomstrong landed on it 50 years ago or something

[Karmic Knight]

Why can't we already have some limited space assets? It's not like our world is a blank slate...

Maybe the FASTA's mission to Selene isn't the first-ever moon mission, but an effort to return to the moon after Neil Shroomstrong landed on it 50 years ago or something

I was going to ask, may the Vineyards be a part of any major space achievement?

[Shroom Man 777]

Before SHEP KILLED US ALL we (PeZook and co.) were planning to launch people from other smaller FUN nations to space (and the moon!), for FUN. Sharing!

[RogueIce]

Why can't we already have some limited space assets? It's not like our world is a blank slate...

How do you know most of the world powers don't have the "infinity plus one" rule, making any attempts to have space assets (manned or unmanned) basically touching off wars all over the place, or coming damned close to that? And then of course there is the whole LEO issue from last game.

Since nobody really knows the status of those attitudes by the various nations (and their ability and/or willingness to back them up, whether by ASATs or bombing the hell out of you on the ground), trying to say what kind of space exploration has gone on would be rather useless.

Maybe the FASTA's mission to Selene isn't the first-ever moon mission, but an effort to return to the moon after Neil Shroomstrong landed on it 50 years ago or something

Ok damn it, if we're going to keep having anyone of historical scientific importance be some real person's name with "Shroom" added in there, I'm going to assemble a coalition and bomb the holy hell out of you. There's a limit, dude. Not everybody important came from Shroomania or otherwise had a "Shroom" name.

The problem with this, and the other "who did what first" is that we've had some four or five countries basically lying claim to having invented this or that, and anyone else (at best) co-invented seperately or got it off them. That's rather annoying (especially as dibs are going to whoever called them out first without really thinking about who would best fit for it) and ultimately pointless. Does it really matter who invented ironclads or the automobile? It's pointless bragging rights and little more.

That's also part of the reason I'm not a fan of the whole established space thing. Who was the first to get to space? Who was the first to put a monkey, dog, man, or woman into orbit? Who was the first to get to the moon (or moons; we don't know what our lunar situation is yet)? How exactly are you going to figure it out? Dice rolls? Picking a name out of a hat? Better to just start from scratch on that front, and say we had to because space overflights had a tendency to incite wars and thus was not seriously persued until recently...if even then, assuming people don't put out and stick with "infinity plus one" airspace.

[RogueIce]

I'm not trying to call you out or be a dick, Shroom. My main point here is that important historical or scientific achievments should not all simply go to those who spend most of their time in the planning thread. For better or worse, you've kind of been the worst offender (or at least the most visible one) in that regard. Especially with the "Shroom" names all over the place.

It's probably best to just leave who invented the automobile, airplane, microchip, whatever, to our unrecorded history rather than try and hash out who did what, which ultimately is little more than pointless bragging rights anyway.

And given that space travel was one of out most contentious issues (with weapons, spy satellites, orbital distances, etc) that's probably best handled in-game. So yeah, a blank slate if you will.

[Shroom Man 777]

Well, the MESS could've placed a man on to the moon 50 years ago (Rock Stronggroin?) and FASTA could be playing catchup like China or something, that's totally fine with me

(I just wanted to say Neil Shroomstrong, mang. I'm sorry )

But, yeah... it's going to be totally tiresome if PeZook has to go that FASTA stuff we already did on the last game ALL OVER AGAIN.

If the FUN guys are playing China, catching up to the Space Race, this could mean that we could just continue our FASTA progress in the last game - where we just recently launched monkeys and people into space (and had some of them EXPLODE).

If we continue our FASTA progress from the last game... well, it won't be a "whole established space thing" since FASTA is just starting out with manned launches and all that (and just recently had EXPLODING MONKEYS).

Maybe we can agree on other stuff so when we start playing, we won't have dudes screaming "INFINITY PLUS ONE" and shooting ASATs into the sky? We should agree on what's what before the game starts, to avoid premature nuke-jaculations.

I mean, even if we're getting a "new world" and all - SDN World Redux is still a spiritual sequel to the old SDN World, right?


But, yeah. Who invented what isn't important... I'm just easily amused by putting "Shroom" in historical figure's names. I'll cut it out.

[Setzer]

Just a suggestion, Shroomy, look up various different types of Mushrooms. There's more potential for puns then simply calling everything Fungal-this or Shroom-that. For example, once I finish the final version of my map, the Shroomanian base in Sirnoth will be called Port Obello naval base.

[Shroom Man 777]

Y'know... like a lot of things, I blame Shep for all of this. He started it all with the whole JOHN SHROOMBO shtick

Anyway, I'm off to the hospitals - I'm gonna be spending the whole day nursinging, so that'll be a reprieve for you guys.

I'm probably gonna end up being burdened with paperwork tonight as well. Goddamn hospital homework. So, yeah.

Guys! Nows your chance! QUICK!

[Sea Skimmer]

Japanistan will most likely be claiming a fair and reasonable 33 million foot airspace limit, equivalent to 10,000km, the limit of the exosphere. Japanistan however will also be willing to permit reasonable use of its air space for commercial and scientific purposes.

I know I don’t care who invented what first; real strength comes from improving and mass producing an idea (see Gloire vs. Warrior in terms of ironclads), not who got it first. Inventions that occurred over a century ago are especially irrelevant. As for space development, I say no one can have anything but basic communications satellites. Those would just be useful to have around so people can realistically have TV broadcasts from around the world and things like that. Advanced military communication systems, spy satellites, space stations, 100 ton capacity space boosters, those should not be around. Either that or nothing at all as Rouge Ice suggests.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Is it alright I go over the limit, say with one CVN, but that CVN remains in dock for the most part? I.E. The way Britain handles its CVs with one in dock for refit etc., while the other two are out at sea.

[RogueIce]

Is it alright I go over the limit, say with one CVN, but that CVN remains in dock for the most part? I.E. The way Britain handles its CVs with one in dock for refit etc., while the other two are out at sea.

You could just make it a CV (like the Kitty Hawk or whatever) and say you're building a new CVN.

I'm doing that, having a CV as my "legacy ship" and building a CVN, though it's not really so much in saving some points as it is I want my yards building a CVN for that whole production line not closing thing.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Is it alright I go over the limit, say with one CVN, but that CVN remains in dock for the most part? I.E. The way Britain handles its CVs with one in dock for refit etc., while the other two are out at sea.

You could just make it a CV (like the Kitty Hawk or whatever) and say you're building a new CVN.

I'm doing that, having a CV as my "legacy ship" and building a CVN, though it's not really so much in saving some points as it is I want my yards building a CVN for that whole production line not closing thing.

Oh.. Well, I plan to be producing some DDGs and maybe some CGs when I start off.

That might work. In that case I might as well go with 1 CVN and 2 CVs.

[PeZook]

Well, of course who invented what first isn't important. Every single history that was posted here is pointless, especially my huge-ass post nobody will ever read

If inventions were actually important, we'd have done it more formally rather than "I call dibs on..."

I agree about Shroom-names, though. It was amusing at first, but come on man!

Also (amazingly enough) I second Skim's opinion about the space program. Let's place it around the end of the V-2 Derivatives Era. So that we can have rockets that mostly don't explode on launch and basic comsats, but no real manned space programs just yet.

[RogueIce]

Speaking of which, if anyone wants to say some of their frigates were bought off of me, let me know the classes you're planning on (this especially for Duchies and Principalities).

Additionally I'll probably wind up with some leftover points, so if you'd like, I can spend those on "older" equipment and just sell it to you shortly after game start, as well.

Of course if you've "historically" bought equipment from me, that still goes against your initial point totals or however you're doing your initial equipment, FYI. You can get "extra" if I spend my own points on it, but you'll still have to buy it from me.

Unless you're like my super-duper ally and I give it to you as part of that I suppose.

[PeZook]

Oh, anothet thing: are Shady and Bean okay with being the losing power block in our own WWI? If yes, then I'll get on writing that, and history of the Old Continent will be complete

If not, then PeZookia can be the loser and have a huge mea culpa complex over it

[RogueIce]

EDIT: Fucking double post. Oh well, here we go...

On the Great War thing, it really depends on where Byzantium, Canissia, and others go. But I'm probably not going to be all majorly involved outside of naval actions.

I may have an Expeditionary Force or something though. But not a huge one. Four divisions or something like that.

In fact, depending on how it goes, it may be my reason for putting more effort into my ground forces, so don't be afraid to give me an embarrassing loss or two before we hit our stride.

As well as being the catalyst for forming the MESS...

[RogueIce]

Well, of course who invented what first isn't important. Every single history that was posted here is pointless, especially my huge-ass post nobody will ever read

Well it does help in setting the "tone" of your nation, at least stuff from probably the mid-19th century onward. Especially as it relates to how various countries decide to treat you from the onset. So it does serve a purpose, although stuff from back in the middle ages probably isn't all that important anymore.

Speaking of which though, if I'm selling/leasing/giving you military equipment, you kind of have to not be a total dick of a nation, or at least have "reformed" or something. I'm not Phong and his total capitalist country: I do have some standards for who I'm going to arm and why. At least publicly.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Oh, anothet thing: are Shady and Bean okay with being the losing power block in our own WWI? If yes, then I'll get on writing that, and history of the Old Continent will be complete

If not, then PeZookia can be the loser and have a huge mea culpa complex over it

Just so you know, Byzantine don't like to get involved in other people's wars, unless it happens to threaten their interests, like an overly strong Shroomania, or Shadow Empire goes on their silly antics. I might not deploy too large an army, but that doesn't stop me from at least doing a display of military might to prove a point.

[Karmic Knight]

Well it does help in setting the "tone" of your nation, at least stuff from probably the mid-19th century onward. Especially as it relates to how various countries decide to treat you from the onset. So it does serve a purpose, although stuff from back in the middle ages probably isn't all that important anymore.

Speaking of which though, if I'm selling/leasing/giving you military equipment, you kind of have to not be a total dick of a nation, or at least have "reformed" or something. I'm not Phong and his total capitalist country: I do have some standards for who I'm going to arm and why. At least publicly.

Are you going take me up on my offer and put a Naval base either on or near my southernmost shore?


EDIT
The Vinish Military. (Please Tell me if I miss categorized something/Made Some terrible rounding error/made some terrible error at all)

The Vinish Royal Navy
2 - Jeremy Sowers - Class Aircraft Carriers [CV]
3 - Interventionist - Class Frigates [FFG(FFH)]
12 - Nirvana - Class missile boats [Corvette]
1 - Gray Fox - Class Attack Submarine [SSK]
2 - Supply - Class Fast Combat Support Ships [AOE]
2 - Trident - Class Replenishment Oiler [AO]
2 - Defender - Class Combat Stores Ship [AKE]

The Vinish Royal Air Force (Officially Sponsored by Gizmonic Institutes)
60 - Gizmonic Institute MRF – 2000 “Falcon” [Lightweight 4th Gen (x4)]
60 – Gizmonic Institute ASF – 1 “Hawk” [3rd Gen (x4)]
10 – Gizmonic Institute IDS Fighter/Bomber “Vulture” [Tactical Bomber]
1 – Gizmonic Institute Royal AWAC Plane [Heavy AWAC]
40 – Gizmonic Institute Jet-Trainer [Trainer (x4)]
12 – Gizmonic Institute Cargo Transport Plane [Strategic Transport (x4)]
20 – Gizmonic Light Marine Patrol Craft [Light Maritime Patrol (x4)]

The Vinish Royal Army


6000 – Professional Infantry
2700 – Marines
1800 – Paratroopers
900 – Combat Engineers
60 – Elite Special Forces Troopers
96 – Gizmonic Institute Gazelles
90 Gizmonic Institute Pumas
120 – Gizmonic Institute Heavy Lift Helicopters
180 – M252 81 mm medium weight Mortar
160 – Armored Howitzers
720 – Armored Personal Carriers
240 – Main Battle Tank

Notes: Some Item names have been changed to remove name recognition; ships may be purchased from other countries then renamed and re-classed here.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Are you sure you want to go with that many carriers? You can't even defend them with the fleet you have. You don't even have air defence destroyers. You are better off with something smaller and more realistic. And not least, you don't even have enough fighter craft to fly off them!

[Ice]

Are you going take me up on my offer and put a Naval base either on or near my southernmost shore?

Yes I will.

The Vinish Royal Navy
2 - Jeremy Sowers - Class Aircraft Carriers [CV]
3 - Interventionist - Class Frigates [FFG(FFH)]
12 - Nirvana - Class missile boats [Corvette]
1 - Gray Fox - Class Attack Submarine [SSK]
2 - Supply - Class Fast Combat Support Ships [AOE]
2 - Trident - Class Replenishment Oiler [AO]
2 - Defender - Class Combat Stores Ship [AKE]

As Fingolfin said, two supercarriers seems wasteful, and with your present Navy they're basically really expensive targets. That and you don't even have any carrier capable fighters that I can see.

If all you ever plan to do is keep them in port and look snazzy, then sure. If you're going to actually use them though, they're a bit of a waste. Spend those 32 points elsewhere.

The Vinish Royal Air Force (Officially Sponsored by Gizmonic Institutes)
60 - Gizmonic Institute MRF – 2000 “Falcon” [Lightweight 4th Gen (x4)]
60 – Gizmonic Institute ASF – 1 “Hawk” [3rd Gen (x4)]
10 – Gizmonic Institute IDS Fighter/Bomber “Vulture” [Tactical Bomber]
1 – Gizmonic Institute Royal AWAC Plane [Heavy AWAC]
40 – Gizmonic Institute Jet-Trainer [Trainer (x4)]
12 – Gizmonic Institute Cargo Transport Plane [Strategic Transport (x4)]
20 – Gizmonic Light Marine Patrol Craft [Light Maritime Patrol (x4)]

I can't really comment on the tactical effectiveness of this (aside from the fact none of these aircraft can operate off your two carriers AFAIK), you're at least within the points limit.

EDIT: I would also tend to designate your SAAB 340AEW as Light AWACs instead of Heavy...and your C-160s as Tactical Transports, not strategic.

The Vinish Royal Army
6000 – Professional Infantry
2700 – Marines
1800 – Paratroopers
900 – Combat Engineers
60 – Elite Special Forces Troopers
96 – Gizmonic Institute Gazelles
90 Gizmonic Institute Pumas
120 – Gizmonic Institute Heavy Lift Helicopters
180 – M252 81 mm medium weight Mortar
160 – Armored Howitzers
720 – Armored Personal Carriers
240 – Main Battle Tank

Mortars are an "assumed" item; you do not have to spend points on those. So if you (or anyone else) did so, then just reassign them elsewhere or replace it with some 105mm towed arty tubes (I'm assuming you "bought" them as Field Towed Artillery?).