Did Bush make the US unpopular?

[Lord Pounder]

For me it comes down to the sheer hypocrisy of the American Nation. For years America funded terrorism themselves in the form of the Mujahideen, Provisional IRA and others. But that was OK, they where "Freedom Fighters". Saddam was once considered an ally to America once upon a time. So was bin Laden. Go figure.

[Edi]

And people wonder why I think Bush has handed bin Laden a victory out of all proportion to what he achieved with September 11th.

Who needs enemies with a government like this?

On September 12th, 2001, there was footage on the news channels of people from all over the world crying over dead Americans...wonder how many of those same people would be indifferent, or something else entirely, today?

This is more accurate than many Americans would want to believe. I was one of those whose primary reaction was a deep sadness for all the victims and their families, combined with anger at whoever committed the attacks. If a similar attack happened now, I'd probably still feel somewhat saddened, but for the most part I'd only want to check that everyone I knew was safe and after that just express some condolences, shrug my shoulders and then not give a shit as long as it didn't result in any more stupidity.

It also didn't take long for all kinds of shit to start manifesting from the moron hordes and even from some people who I know are fairly intelligent. Summary demands for carpet bombing everything in the Middle East, nuking etc that you get from mouth-breathers, but also vicious attacks and claims that it was anti-American and supporting the (at that point unknown) attackers if I refused to pass judgment on hundreds of millions of people without no more evidence than the first five minute gut reaction. I flamed that particular moron to such a cinder that they're still gathering the ashes from the corners of that forum.

And then Bush went and made national policy of precisely that kind of shit at every turn. The lead-up to the Iraq invasion, which can be examined even in this forum's history and all that came from it and with the enthusiastic support of the American people. For someone who grew upo in the 1980s and had been raised to regard the US as a force for good, especially against Soviet communism, it was a severe disillusionment. I wouldn't go quite as far as calling it a betrayal, that would be naive in the extreme and I knew better already earlier, but I would not be surprised if some people had precisely that emotional reaction to it.

There are many more who think like I do, though not all of them necessarily have as scathing opinions. And Finland was and perhaps still is one of the most pro-American countries in Europe. That's not very visible, because it is not perceptible in official policy, but the common people's opinion is not reflected in official policy in that regard because it would get us in deep shit with Russia. Our perception of America suffered a very serious blow (to the tune of double digit percentage points in polls) from 2003 onward.

[Darth Wong]

If September 11 happened again, I think a lot of the world would be thinking: "What will they do this time?"

Let's be realistic: 3000 deaths is a tragedy, but there is no reason why anybody in the rest of the world should feel worse about it then 3000 people dying in some other part of the world, and that happens all the time without Americans giving a shit at all.

The interesting thing is that Bin Laden was hoping to damage America's morale and economy with the WTC strike. Why else would he have a hard-on for hitting the WTC instead of a military target or some random (and much softer) civilian target of opportunity? He did succeed to some extent, but Bush actually did far more damage to America's morale and economy than Bin Laden ever did. Bush has been holding Americans in a constant state of fear since 9/11, spending money like water with 9/11 as a justification, and using 9/11 to keep himself in office so he could perpetuate his idiotic anti-regulation agenda which did even more damage.

What a lot of people don't seem to realize is that Bin Laden was hoping to conduct economic warfare against the United States. Every time he reads about bad economic ramifications of the things Bush has done to his own country (especially when they have been justified by 9/11), that fucker must be laughing his skinny ass off.

[Adrian Laguna]

What a lot of people don't seem to realize is that Bin Laden was hoping to conduct economic warfare against the United States. Every time he reads about bad economic ramifications of the things Bush has done to his own country (especially when they have been justified by 9/11), that fucker must be laughing his skinny ass off.

Ol' Osama seems to understand something that is lost upon the American public: Wars are economic drains, and the more time you spend on war, the more strained your economy becomes. Al-Quada's strategy was obviously to drag the United States into the Middle-East and get them stuck in long term resource draining quagmire. McCain's idiotic "we'll stay in Iraq 100 years if we have to!" attitude is playing right in the hands of the enemies of the United States.

[SirNitram]

I find this quote the Times dug up to be the most damning.

Link to story.

''If bin Laden takes over and becomes king of Saudi Arabia, he'd turn off the tap,'' said Roger Diwan, a managing director of the Petroleum Finance Company, a consulting firm in Washington. ''He said at one point that he wants oil to be $144 a barrel'' -- about six times what it sells for now.

No word on whether he'll land on an aircraft carrier and have political media openly worshipping his codpiece.

[Andrew_Fireborn]

What a lot of people don't seem to realize is that Bin Laden was hoping to conduct economic warfare against the United States. Every time he reads about bad economic ramifications of the things Bush has done to his own country (especially when they have been justified by 9/11), that fucker must be laughing his skinny ass off.

Ol' Osama seems to understand something that is lost upon the American public: Wars are economic drains, and the more time you spend on war, the more strained your economy becomes. Al-Quada's strategy was obviously to drag the United States into the Middle-East and get them stuck in long term resource draining quagmire. McCain's idiotic "we'll stay in Iraq 100 years if we have to!" attitude is playing right in the hands of the enemies of the United States.

Part of that is, I remember being taught, several times over the course of my public schooling, that it was world war 2 that got America out of the Great Depression.

I sincerely doubt even a quarter of the people who were taught the same ever looked at any of the reasons for that. Hell, even having brought it up I can't say I've ever looked into any of the reasons.

It's not just the American Science education that's basically been hacked to pieces.

[Xenophobe3691]

Part of that is, I remember being taught, several times over the course of my public schooling, that it was world war 2 that got America out of the Great Depression.

I sincerely doubt even a quarter of the people who were taught the same ever looked at any of the reasons for that. Hell, even having brought it up I can't say I've ever looked into any of the reasons.

It's not just the American Science education that's basically been hacked to pieces.

You have to remember, the Allies had been manufacturing a lot of the world's industrial output, as well as importing a lot of food from colonies. The US just made up the difference during WWII due to our isolation.

[Lord Pounder]

I find this quote the Times dug up to be the most damning.

Link to story.

''If bin Laden takes over and becomes king of Saudi Arabia, he'd turn off the tap,'' said Roger Diwan, a managing director of the Petroleum Finance Company, a consulting firm in Washington. ''He said at one point that he wants oil to be $144 a barrel'' -- about six times what it sells for now.

No word on whether he'll land on an aircraft carrier and have political media openly worshipping his codpiece.

So this great Jihad could just be a elaborate plot by bin Laden to hike up the price of oil and make his fellow Saudi's even richer?

[SirNitram]

I find this quote the Times dug up to be the most damning.

Link to story.

''If bin Laden takes over and becomes king of Saudi Arabia, he'd turn off the tap,'' said Roger Diwan, a managing director of the Petroleum Finance Company, a consulting firm in Washington. ''He said at one point that he wants oil to be $144 a barrel'' -- about six times what it sells for now.

No word on whether he'll land on an aircraft carrier and have political media openly worshipping his codpiece.

So this great Jihad could just be a elaborate plot by bin Laden to hike up the price of oil and make his fellow Saudi's even richer?

No, it's economic warfare. Make the US fight him where it strains them economically while making the price of a basic necessity for their warfighting and economy skyrocket. C'mon, that's not complicated.