Toby Keith Advocates [Racial] Lynching?

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Toby Keith Advocates [Racial] Lynching?

Post by Coyote »

While reading this article at Huffington Post, by blogger Max Blumenthal, who said that the song advocates lynching Blacks, and points out the song lyric calling to "Hang 'em high, where everyone can see them" like in the "good old days" proves his point.

Toby Keith, the country singer, does not help matters by saying that Barack Obama "acts like a Caucasian". Here's the article in question:
Last week, I reported for the Huffington Post that country singer Toby Keith had performed a pro-lynching anthem on the Colbert Report, and would be playing the same song soon on the Tonight Show with Jay Leno and a slew of nationally televised talk shows.

The lyrics of Keith's song, "Beer For My Horses," which I transcribed, could hardly be less explicit -- "Hang 'em high, for all the people to see." In my piece, I also noted the racially tinged nature of the song's video and the forthcoming movie that Keith's song inspired.

The response from right-wing blogs was swift and strident. Townhall.com whined that "The Liberal Lynching of Toby Keith" had taken place; Lonewacko claimed that Keith was actually "promoting lawful executions." And Keith found an avid defender in Robert Stacy McCain, the disgraced former Washington Times reporter and avowed neo-Confederate who once allegedly ranted in the middle of the Times newsroom that slavery was "good for the blacks and good for property owners."

The comments section of my post was immediately swarmed by right-wing trolls twisting themselves into contortions to defend the indefensible. A typical comment read: "I can't believe that this Max can't find something real to complain about in this crazy world... I think Max is the bigot -- he obviously hates country music, country singers and Southerners."

Describing Keith's over-produced truck commercial schmaltz as "country music" besmirches the dignified tradition established by Bill Monroe, Johnny Cash and Dolly Parton, while insulting the innovative artists propelling the genre into the future, from Neko Case to Son Volt to my good friend Dave Bryan (hear his music here). At his best, Keith is Merle Haggard with a lobotomy. But that's beside the point.

The comments by the literally hundreds of trolls who leapt to Keith's defense are significant for only one reason: they reveal the extent to which the radical right has anointed Keith as a icon of its movement. Keith's schlock rock is the soundtrack of the culturally deprived australopithicenes who populate the cyber-caves of freeperland and comprise the movement's most fervent activists. As a bellicose chickenhawk who has risen from the ranks of the rural working class to become "White Trash With Money," Keith has carefully calibrated his image to fit the sensibility of his fans.

Now, Keith has trained his sights on Barack Obama, attacking him in language that startled even the notoriously reactionary radio jock Glenn Beck. During Keith's appearance on the July 30 broadcast of Beck's show, he remarked, "I think the black people would say he [Obama] don't talk, act or carry himself as a black person."

"What does that even mean?" the audibly shocked Beck replied.

"Well, I don't know what that means," Keith drawled, "but I think that that's what they would say. Even though the black society would pull for him I still think that they think in the back of their mind that the only reason he is in [the general election] is because he talks, acts and carries himself as a Caucasian."

How will Keith's fans explain away his remarks without rejecting the essential thrust of his argument? The comments section is open.

Now, I don't generally credit country music with churning out the sharpest knives in the drawer, but I didn't think anyone outside of Prussian Blue would be stupid enough to openly sing about racial lynching. So I looked up the song lyrics on Google and found this:
Well a man come on the 6 o'clock news
Said somebody's been shot, somebody's been abused
Somebody blew up a building
Somebody stole a car
Somebody got away
Somebody didn't get too far yeah
They didn't get too far

Grandpappy told my pappy, back in my day, son
A man had to answer for the wicked that he done
Take all the rope in Texas
Find a tall oak tree, round up all of them bad boys
Hang them high in the street for all the people to see that

(Chorus)
Justice is the one thing you should always find
You got to saddle up your boys
You got to draw a hard line
When the gun smoke settles we'll sing a victory tune
We'll all meet back at the local saloon
We'll raise up our glasses against evil forces
Singing whiskey for my men, beer for my horses

We got too many gangsters doing dirty deeds
We've got too much corruption, too much crime in the streets
It's time the long arm of the law put a few more in the ground
Send 'em all to their maker and he'll settle 'em down
You can bet he'll set 'em down 'cause

(Chorus x2)

I'm no fan of Toby Keith or Country Music, but it seems to me that this is more a song advocating vigilante justice and widespread use of the death penalty in general, and not necessarily a call to lynch Blacks in particular. Of course one can always imply that a number of Blacks would be hung because of crime statistics, but does that necessarily make it racial? After all, a lot of Whites, Hispanics and Asians would --presumably-- be hung too, as the song seems more centered on confronting criminals in a "manly" old-fashioned way instead of "liberal coddling" of "evildoers".

I get the feeling that this is an over-reaction, but if there's ssomething racial about this I'm not seeing, I'd appreciate it being pointed out.
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Post by Darth Wong »

"Back in my day, son" in Texas means a lot of things, many of them racially charged. The fact is that anyone who pines for the "good old days" in the South must surely know how awful those days were for minorities, and must not have a problem with that.

Come on, when some white guy says that he wishes he were back in the good old days of the South, what do you think?
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Re: Toby Keith Advocates [Racial] Lynching?

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Coyote wrote:

I'm no fan of Toby Keith or Country Music, but it seems to me that this is more a song advocating vigilante justice and widespread use of the death penalty in general, and not necessarily a call to lynch Blacks in particular. Of course one can always imply that a number of Blacks would be hung because of crime statistics, but does that necessarily make it racial? After all, a lot of Whites, Hispanics and Asians would --presumably-- be hung too, as the song seems more centered on confronting criminals in a "manly" old-fashioned way instead of "liberal coddling" of "evildoers".

I get the feeling that this is an over-reaction, but if there's ssomething racial about this I'm not seeing, I'd appreciate it being pointed out.
Well the thing is, as Toby himself admits, his Song Lyrics come from his father who always said "We need to take all the evil people, all the rope we can get and just keep hanging till we run out of tree's"

That might be a slight mis-quote but the basic thing was, Toby's love of Lynching apperntly came from his father. And who was being lynched when his father was growing up?

Blaaack people.

See this is the thing that will set off the NAACP and people who lived long enough in the south. When a southern talks about Lynching, it's not evil people they are talking about, it's colored's. Up until the 90's colored folk were still be founding hanging from tree's in the south. No evil people but whole families. During the 50's and 60's it surged again then declined during post civil rights movement.

It still happens, rare though it is, if you find someone swinging from a tree it's going to be some colored person(I'm including Hispanics as well since they started migrating to the south)

Part of why lynching have died off is obvious, if you find a body swinging from a tree, the FBI is going to be all that place in a heartbeat and a media circus will be only hours behind, second is particulate it's kind of hard to do a lynching without leaving all sorts of physical evidence around.

What I'm saying in essence is this, at the time and place of Toby's birth and his father life the only people being lynched were black people, not rapists, not thieves, black people and the occasional white civil rights activist. Considering the context how could it not be racist?

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Post by Big Phil »

To describe Beer For My Horses (a duet with Willie Nelson) as being pro-lynching black people is like saying that Margaritaville is pro-drunk driving.

Moreover, this song is five years old; why is there a controversy now?
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Post by Mr Bean »

SancheztheWhaler wrote:To describe Beer For My Horses (a duet with Willie Nelson) as being pro-lynching black people is like saying that Margaritaville is pro-drunk driving.

Moreover, this song is five years old; why is there a controversy now?
Hmm, because five years ago Barrack Obama had not yet stepped onto the National Stage? Because five years ago Toby was not calling Obama out for acting white?

Why ever would this cause a controversy now?

SancheztheWhaler, when someone makes racist sounding statements they look in his past to see if he's made any other, that's why it's controversy now and not then. Because there's half black half white man running for President and a country singer(Never know for being huge fans of the african american community) is calling him out for "acting white". Despite as noted, he is half "white' whatever you want to define that is.

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Post by Darth Wong »

SancheztheWhaler wrote:To describe Beer For My Horses (a duet with Willie Nelson) as being pro-lynching black people is like saying that Margaritaville is pro-drunk driving.
Why? The lyrics clearly describe a person who pines for the good old days when they would lynch people in Texas, and we know what kind of person got lynched in the good old days in Texas, regardless of whether he actually did anything wrong.
Moreover, this song is five years old; why is there a controversy now?
Are you suggesting that there should be a statute of limitations on this?
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Post by Darth Wong »

The irony of right-wingers decrying this as "anti-Southern bigotry" is pretty goddamned thick, when they're defending a guy who thinks that black people have an intrinsic tendency to act like illiterate thugs (hence the articulate law-abiding suit-wearing Obama seems to be "acting white" to him).
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Post by Coyote »

See, I was thinking of "the good old days" when "justice" was "swift and sure", ie, murderers, robbers, horse-thieves, etc. would just be tracked down by a posse of good ol' boys and "strung up" without all those pesky juries and fancy-pants city-boy lawyers and all "endless appeals" in "cushy prisons" and all that stuff [/cowboy mode].

Blacks would most definitely be included in the mix, of course... I'm certainly not saying that "mob justice is acceptable so long as it's not racist"; I think Toby Kieth is being a USDA Prime Ass either way. In context with his comments about Obama, it certainly sheds more light on the racism angle.
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Re: Toby Keith Advocates [Racial] Lynching?

Post by Big Phil »

Mr Bean wrote:Considering the context how could it not be racist?
What do you know about the context of the song? I'm guessing nothing and next to nothing...

The video makes it even clearer that when he's talking about the "back in my day" he's referring to the frontier era through the early 20th century, when the only law in the west were the Marshall's, Sheriffs, and Rangers (the Arizona Rangers are specifically highlighted in the video) who upheld law and order in otherwise rough and tumble frontier towns. The lyrics tie "back in my day" with his idealized solution for law and order, and compares it to what's happening today with urban crime.

At the end of the day, however, it's just a silly, feel-good song, not a call for racial warfare. For fucks sake... :roll:
Mr Bean wrote:Hmm, because five years ago Barrack Obama had not yet stepped onto the National Stage? Because five years ago Toby was not calling Obama out for acting white?
I don't know the context of how Toby Keith made the comments about Obama, but do you actually disagree with what he said?

"I think the black people would say he [Obama] don't talk, act or carry himself as a black person."

"What does that even mean?" the audibly shocked Beck replied.

"Well, I don't know what that means," Keith drawled, "but I think that that's what they would say. Even though the black society would pull for him I still think that they think in the back of their mind that the only reason he is in [the general election] is because he talks, acts and carries himself as a Caucasian."


Considering that Jessie Jackson has all but said the same thing, it should hardly be a shock to hear other people (even, GASP, white people!) saying the same thing.
Mr Bean wrote:SancheztheWhaler, when someone makes racist sounding statements they look in his past to see if he's made any other, that's why it's controversy now and not then. Because there's half black half white man running for President and a country singer(Never know for being huge fans of the african american community) is calling him out for "acting white". Despite as noted, he is half "white' whatever you want to define that is.
Again, I may not have the full context of the interview, since I don't listen to Glenn Beck, but what he said is not "calling out" Barack Obama. It's a factually correct statement, and since you are assuming that he's a racist redneck you feel it's okay to ascribe motivations to his statement that may or may not exist. His statement isn't "racist sounding" to me, and I question how "racist sounding" it actually was on the air. Was it two lines taken out of context, or is it completely in context?


Darth Wong wrote:
SancheztheWhaler wrote: To describe Beer For My Horses (a duet with Willie Nelson) as being pro-lynching black people is like saying that Margaritaville is pro-drunk driving.
Why? The lyrics clearly describe a person who pines for the good old days when they would lynch people in Texas, and we know what kind of person got lynched in the good old days in Texas, regardless of whether he actually did anything wrong.
You're using your word (lynching) instead of what the song says. The song doesn't say "lynch" ever; it talks about hanging criminals.

Darth Wong wrote:
SancheztheWhaler wrote:Moreover, this song is five years old; why is there a controversy now?
Are you suggesting that there should be a statute of limitations on this?
No, I'm wondering why the controversy over the racism of Beer for my Horses didn't erupt in 2003, unless it doesn't really exist except in the minds of people looking for reasons to raise a fuss.
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Post by CaptainChewbacca »

There's new controversy now because they actually made a comedy movie based on the music video. As for the song and video, it talks about solving street crime and corruption specifically by hanging 'all them bad guys'. Its not racial, just simplistic.

Heck, I don't think there's any black people in the video. Its been a long time since I've seen it, though.
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Post by Anguirus »

Gangs of vigilantes hanging criminals is lynching. The racial connotations of the word "lynch" come from the fact that the vast majority of people who were ever lynched, were black. Fancy that.
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Post by Illuminatus Primus »

Coyote, you're being an idiot. How many spontaneous tree-hanging lynchings took place of criminals who are not black? Especially in a context that is as culturally accessible and known as race lynchings?
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Post by Coyote »

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Coyote, you're being an idiot. How many spontaneous tree-hanging lynchings took place of criminals who are not black? Especially in a context that is as culturally accessible and known as race lynchings?
Well, that's why I'm asking wrt general vigilante justice and the overly-simplistic applications thereof, fucking "duh":
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Post by The Duchess of Zeon »

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Coyote, you're being an idiot. How many spontaneous tree-hanging lynchings took place of criminals who are not black? Especially in a context that is as culturally accessible and known as race lynchings?

Random German people were lynched just for being German on the run-up to American involvement in the First World War, and during it? There are several documented cases.

There was also a Jewish guy who was lynched in Atlanta.
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Post by Cycloneman »

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Coyote, you're being an idiot. How many spontaneous tree-hanging lynchings took place of criminals who are not black? Especially in a context that is as culturally accessible and known as race lynchings?
Plenty of lynchings happened that were targeted towards mexicans. In fact, Texas had more mexicans being lynched than blacks for a while.
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Post by Darth Wong »

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote:Coyote, you're being an idiot. How many spontaneous tree-hanging lynchings took place of criminals who are not black? Especially in a context that is as culturally accessible and known as race lynchings?
Random German people were lynched just for being German on the run-up to American involvement in the First World War, and during it? There are several documented cases.

There was also a Jewish guy who was lynched in Atlanta.
Doesn't that only reinforce the point, that lynching is about mob prejudice rather than justice?
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Post by CaptainChewbacca »

Darth Wong wrote:
The Duchess of Zeon wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote:Coyote, you're being an idiot. How many spontaneous tree-hanging lynchings took place of criminals who are not black? Especially in a context that is as culturally accessible and known as race lynchings?
Random German people were lynched just for being German on the run-up to American involvement in the First World War, and during it? There are several documented cases.

There was also a Jewish guy who was lynched in Atlanta.
Doesn't that only reinforce the point, that lynching is about mob prejudice rather than justice?
Yes, but as was said earlier, the song is about 'hanging', which was a common death sentence meted out legally in frontier territories.
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Post by Alyrium Denryle »

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote:Coyote, you're being an idiot. How many spontaneous tree-hanging lynchings took place of criminals who are not black? Especially in a context that is as culturally accessible and known as race lynchings?

Random German people were lynched just for being German on the run-up to American involvement in the First World War, and during it? There are several documented cases.

There was also a Jewish guy who was lynched in Atlanta.
Yeah, but those are comparatively rare. Considering how many black people were lynched since the end of reconstruction to the 90s...
You're using your word (lynching) instead of what the song says. The song doesn't say "lynch" ever; it talks about hanging criminals.
Hanging without trial is the textbook definition of lynching you dumbfuck
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Re: Toby Keith Advocates [Racial] Lynching?

Post by Darth Wong »

SancheztheWhaler wrote:You're using your word (lynching) instead of what the song says. The song doesn't say "lynch" ever; it talks about hanging criminals.
Actually, it talks about how it was done in the good old days in Texas, so it's invoking history, and we know what that history was.
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Post by Illuminatus Primus »

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote:Coyote, you're being an idiot. How many spontaneous tree-hanging lynchings took place of criminals who are not black? Especially in a context that is as culturally accessible and known as race lynchings?

Random German people were lynched just for being German on the run-up to American involvement in the First World War, and during it? There are several documented cases.

There was also a Jewish guy who was lynched in Atlanta.
:roll: I'm sure that what Toby Keith and his daddeh were accustomed to back in the day.
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CaptainChewbacca wrote: Yes, but as was said earlier, the song is about 'hanging', which was a common death sentence meted out legally in frontier territories.
From trees as opposed to gallows? Furthermore, why should we even pretend that this premodern barbarism for summary executions of suspected criminals without modern legal or procedural safeguards and such is so much better than racial lynching? You're basically, "no no no, he doesn't want to lynch blacks, only throw every stitch of progress since the Wild West and barbarically hang suspected criminals from trees."
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Post by Darth Wong »

CaptainChewbacca wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:
The Duchess of Zeon wrote: Random German people were lynched just for being German on the run-up to American involvement in the First World War, and during it? There are several documented cases.
There was also a Jewish guy who was lynched in Atlanta.
Doesn't that only reinforce the point, that lynching is about mob prejudice rather than justice?
Yes, but as was said earlier, the song is about 'hanging', which was a common death sentence meted out legally in frontier territories.
Yeah, right. "Legally," in the sense that a white sheriff and white townsfolk decided that the nigger should die. Texas, remember?
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CaptainChewbacca
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Post by CaptainChewbacca »

Darth Wong wrote:Yeah, right. "Legally," in the sense that a white sheriff and white townsfolk decided that the nigger should die. Texas, remember?
Or Arkansas, if you like. The iconic 'hanging judge'.
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You kinda look like Jesus. With a lightsaber.- Peregrin Toker
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CaptainChewbacca
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Post by CaptainChewbacca »

The actual music video for the song.

And hey, look Jonas Quinn is in it!
Stuart: The only problem is, I'm losing track of which universe I'm in.
You kinda look like Jesus. With a lightsaber.- Peregrin Toker
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Justforfun000
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Post by Justforfun000 »

Actually I assumed he was referring to the Old West. The old John Wayne movies and Bonanza came to mind. I don't even remember black people being showing in those movies very often. It was always some white guy with a mustache and a four in hands being strung up for being a horse thief.

At least that's the impression that popped in my head from reading the lyrics.

What struck me a little odd along with this story too was I remembered that Toby Keith is a democrat. There was an article that said country music singers were usually perceived to be conservative but listed examples showing that's not necessarily the case. Of course one doesn's have to be conservative to be racist, but they do seem to be more prevalent in that camp...
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