Dr. Who Season 2(28) Episode 4 Rewatch:Girl in the Fireplace

[Straha]

We rejoin the Doctor and his intrepid crew bolstered by one more member! Watch the beginning of Mickey Smith's career as a TARDISnaut. See Mickey Smith react to the TARDIS, to his girlfriend, to the Doctor, and to his first trip to the FUTURE! What will Mickey do? What will Mickey see? What will Mickey say? All this and some stuff about the Doctor and the Madame de Pompadour in Steven Moffat's contribution to Season Two of the new Doctor Who!

Watch, vote and then rant and rave below!


On a slightly different note. The ratings for School Reunion are in. So far, with 19 votes cast, the average is 3.947 which gives it 14th place out of 34 episodes and places it just below Fires of Pompeii and just above Last of the Time Lords. If, however, we excise the sole 1 vote in that thread we get a rating of 4.111. Which would move Reunion up to 11th place, just above the Sontaran Stratagem and just below Smith and Jones. Both these ratings place School Reunion as the first solidly above average episode of Season 2. Lets see if it'll be joined in a few days by Girl in the Fireplace.

[SilverWingedSeraph]

I voted four. I really liked this episode, but I didn't love it. David Tennant's Doctor really is a sucker for the ladies, isn't he? I remember really enjoying the reveal at the end, the first time I watched this episode.

[Stark]

Easily the best single episode of the series at this point. Even more demonstration of concepts like 'chemistry' and 'subtle forshadowing' lost in later seasons. Some excellent depth to all characters (Rose becoming more like the Doctor, Mickey becoming an actual character, the Doctor being something other than an omniscient plot device, Sophia Myles being fucking hot, etc), cool sets, brilliant all round.

Comparing these ratings makes me shake my head. People rated Smith and Jones, the rhino oil-marker fiasco, mostly 5s? Utter madness.

[Revy]

I rated this a 4. It would have been a 5 if not for the ending, which I dissliked. Out of all the Who episodes I've seen, this one had a good time traveling feel to it that many others lacked (probably because of constant alien invasions - the oldschool robots blended in quite well with their chosen time period and even dressed the part). A great episode in general, but again the ending left me with a bit of a sour taste, not counting the bit about the spaceships name, which was a neat touch.

[Stark]

Explain what you disliked about the ending.

[Revy]

It's just a personal thing. I don't think script/production wise there was anything wrong with it, but on a personal note I dissliked the fact that he wasn't able to get to her in time, and that the next time he drops in she's dead. It was sad. I know, not every episode can have a happy ending and on the occasions when 'everybody lives' the Doctor makes a scene. But I really liked her (character and actress) so I was more than a little miffed that she wound up dead without ever having a chance to come with him or even see him again.

[Stark]

Oh, you're one of THOSE people.

[Rye]

While I agree with Stark that not having happy endings is not a failure for drama, it is a bit of a failure to have a fucking time machine and not be able to sort it out.

[Stark]

While I agree with Stark that not having happy endings is not a failure for drama, it is a bit of a failure to have a fucking time machine and not be able to sort it out.

I'm not going to bother to point out that this is directly addressed in the episode and had previously been established in S1.

Dammit, I just did. Oh well. He was already a part of her life; BEFORE he went through the 'loose connection' to a point after her death, he could have just used the TARDIS for a short hop. It's part of the tragedy - if he hadn't thought 'hey I'll just go back to let her know what's up', things would have been different. Unreliable time windows!

[Rye]

As I recall, the only thing really demanding he not go back was a note that the woman left for him, which could exist so long as he ensured she left it (Hell, he could take it and give it her to leave after she dies, begging the question of where it came from in the first place), even though it contained false information like "I didn't see the Doctor again".

[Stark]

Well, they muffed about with the paradox thing in later seasons, but at this point in S2 I thought it was pretty clear that he couldn't mess about with things once he was 'part of events', by exiting the TARDIS or traversing the window. Clearly his Time Lord shatterpoint-sense told him it was a fixed point that he couldn't interfere with?

In other news, TARDIS at 'full drama' setting for departure. I love how it has variable wind machines based on how 'dramatic' it's travel should be.

[Thanas]

On a slightly different note. The ratings for School Reunion are in. So far, with 19 votes cast, the average is 3.947 which gives it 14th place out of 34 episodes and places it just below Fires of Pompeii and just above Last of the Time Lords. If, however, we excise the sole 1 vote in that thread we get a rating of 4.111. Which would move Reunion up to 11th place, just above the Sontaran Stratagem and just below Smith and Jones. Both these ratings place School Reunion as the first solidly above average episode of Season 2. Lets see if it'll be joined in a few days by Girl in the Fireplace.

I am all for excising. Since noone has explained himself, it was most likely a troll vote. I'd also like to remind people that some time ago some people openly stated in testing that they auto-vote 1 just to screw with us.

Comparing these ratings makes me shake my head. People rated Smith and Jones, the rhino oil-marker fiasco, mostly 5s? Utter madness.

Word.


Now, on to the episode:

Bits I liked:
- as Stark has mentioned, this episode has it all. Character depth, interactions, characterization.
- the supporting cast was mostly good. Sophia Myles was great, Noel Clarke was decent.
- Humour. (my favorite bits:

Rose: Ever heard of the Daleks? Remember them? They had a name for our friend. They had myths about him and a name. They called him "The..." *doctor stumbles in, drunkenly* The Doctor: [singing] I could've spread my wings and done a thou... Have you met the French? My God, they know how to party!
Rose: Oh, look at what the cat dragged in: "The Oncoming Storm."

Rose: Arthur?
The Doctor: Good name for a horse.
Rose:No, you are not keeping the horse!
The Doctor: I let you keep Mickey!

Things that made no sense:
- Where was the fucking garde du corps during the episode? The moment those robots started messing about, they should have been bayonetted by over 1000 armed men. Even if we assume the robots are immune to anything, they would still drown in a sea of bodies. Even if we assume they all were out drunk, that still leaves the 100 palace guards that were always on duty. Of every little thing in the episode, this one annoys me the most.
- How did the robots get the resources to build a time machine, but somehow needed to integrate the crew?

Somehow, the episode doesn't gel with the rest of the season for me. I don't know why, but GitF has always felt out of place compared to the rest of the season.

So in short, this one is a four. I would give it a three for overlooking the garde du corps/the fact that every aristocrat has gotten duelling training etc... yet the overall quality of the story makes up for it. So this one gets a four.

[Straha]

I have very happy memories of this episode and they came back when I was watching it. When I first saw it on Sci-Fi I was about to leave to go outside to see some friends. I got up to the commercial break after the:
"What do monsters have nightmares about?"
"Me."
exchange. I went outside raved to my friends about it. They both stopped, demanded to see the rest of the episode. And were utterly entranced by it. I loved it not only on first seeing it but also on rewatching it. It has that perfect chemistry between all the characters that makes the first two seasons so enjoyable. The plot is fantastic (aside from a couple niggling matters), and the actors all nail their roles perfectly. Not only that but the dramatic moments are tense, the comedic moments hilarious ("You can't keep the horse!",) and the moving moments reach out their and plant heartstrings deep inside you only to rip them out again. Great stuff and, I think, by far the best episode so far and probably the best episode of the season. 5 out of 5.

Comparing these ratings makes me shake my head. People rated Smith and Jones, the rhino oil-marker fiasco, mostly 5s? Utter madness.

You ever see someone who changes from a good person to a total loser? At first everyone defends him from all attacks and covers for him, because he's a good guy and they all remember what he was like. And they could be right, it might just be a fluke of the mood and he'll be back to normal. And then it goes on and they rally the wagons and keep it up, because they've invested too much in it already, even if he is clearly a loser. And then finally they give up, accept the obvious and leave him to rot.

Same thing happened to Doctor Who. Sure Smith and Jones was bad, but it introduced a new companion with a unique and interesting back story and that's where the bread and butter of new Doctor Who lay for seasons 1 and 2. So, like with School Reunion, you can excuse a poor main plot for exciting new character development with an exciting new and different (hur hur) character. Then they see stuff like Shakespeare Code and Daleks in Manhattan. Sure it might be bad, but they're good ideas and they're certainly redeemable with a couple rewrites. And then you get Utopia and everyone can scream "See! Look! It's back to being awesome again!" followed by Sound of the Drums (the highest rated Who episode on SD.Net) and all the fans can crow for joy. And then you get Last of the Time Lords (barely above average by our ratings,) and everyone can see the writing on the wall, know crap Doctor Who is here to stay, and the average rating plummets starting with the next season.

That cynicism is here to stay, though. You can tell by comparing these rewatch threads to the original threads.

[Stark]

It's one thing to not hate it; S+J is average I guess. But the clumsy plot, the shrieking badguy, the terrible direction etc... and people voted it mostly 5s. Sure, it looked like Martha might not be a cipher, but a 5?

And not, say, this episode, which is actual functional drama with no fucking rhinos with oil markers or vampires with glass-shattering voices or scooby-doo sequences?

[Thanas]

^Might have something to do with the season premiere. First, it was the first episode after the break, so naturally people looked forward to it.
Then, there were all kind of fears after Rose left - namely that the new companion was going to suck, especially when she was played by a new actress. And lo, she did indeed suck and turned out to be played by a bad actress. However, she didn't do so in the first episode.


So I guess people were just happy that a) who was back, b) The new companion was interesting, c) there were references to last season. TBH, I would have given S&J a very weak 4 on the first watch, based on those reasons. I can understand why others did the same. As for why I voted this episode a 4, my resons are outlined above.

[Atavarius]

I am all for excising. Since noone has explained himself, it was most likely a troll vote. I'd also like to remind people that some time ago some people openly stated in testing that they auto-vote 1 just to screw with us.

I am all for this.

I have to give this episode a 5. Chemistry between the cast was great, plot was solid, acting was spot on. Echoing Stark, this episode really highlighted what made the later series so bad. There was no Doctor "Deus", characters were great, etc...

[Straha]

I am all for excising. Since noone has explained himself, it was most likely a troll vote. I'd also like to remind people that some time ago some people openly stated in testing that they auto-vote 1 just to screw with us.

I am all for this.

Seeing as how there is now a one vote here without explanation I am going to excise the one vote both there and here. Unless whoever's voting posts why he voted that way (or, if you'd really like, PM me.)

[Crazedwraith]

After giving School Reunion a 5 I can hardly rank this episode less. The characterisations and interactions were very good. The plot was solid and the ending was pretty magnificent; that The Doctor never finds out all the answers is a good change of pace.

Some minor niggling issues: the whole mind meld thing and Renette being all psychic was a bit iffy, although necessary for the depth of the emotional connection between the two.

And not being able to go back in the TARDIS after using the time windows, why exactly? No reason other than Author's fiat as far as I can tell.

[Bounty]

Who is the turd who keeps voting a random 1?

- How did the robots get the resources to build a time machine, but somehow needed to integrate the crew?

They had most of the resources right there; the ship's power source was still working and as the Doctor said, it was running at maximum with the ship in neutral creating enough energy to "punch through spacetime". It's Whoscience, but it wasn't unaddressed.

And the robots didn't exactly use the most straightforward reasoning; hence why they went after Reinette.

I rank this episode as one of my absolute favourites, if only for the final scenes. Superb acting and writing all-round, with lots of humour and suspense in the first three-quarters leading into a beautifully touching ending.

[Ryushikaze]

I thought this episode was easily the top of S2, if not nuwho as a whole. The connection to Reinette was very well done for such a short amount of time (both in the episode and the shortness of how long they knew each other for), and worked extremely well as obotsmirror for the doctor and his companions, and how, no matter what, he eventually has to leave them behind, even if he doesn't want to (a good, relatively subtle contrast to what he said in School Reunion, and a good subtle foreshadowing to the end of the season.
The robots were the right blend of flashy, creepy, and effective, and the mind meld scene, while a bit hokey, worked well and gave us insight into the doctor as a person rather than as the figure.
I gave this a 5.

[Stark]

Some minor niggling issues: the whole mind meld thing and Renette being all psychic was a bit iffy, although necessary for the depth of the emotional connection between the two.

Time Lords have always been psychic, and Sophia Myles wasn't; she just wasn't a passive participant in the process, because she's hell smart. DW is full of psychic humans anyway.

And not being able to go back in the TARDIS after using the time windows, why exactly? No reason other than Author's fiat as far as I can tell.

duh paradox duh fixed point duh friend just died duh

why couldn't they go back to two weeks ago and warn everyone about the daleks lolololol

[CaptainChewbacca]

I voted 4, but I wish I could change it to 5, because I forgot the best line of all.

Madame: May I present my lover, Charles I, King of France.
Doctor: Big deal, I'm the Lord of Time.

WIN!

[Crazedwraith]

And not being able to go back in the TARDIS after using the time windows, why exactly? No reason other than Author's fiat as far as I can tell.

duh paradox duh fixed point duh friend just died duh

why couldn't they go back to two weeks ago and warn everyone about the daleks lolololol

Because that's crossing his own timeline. However instead of charging through a mirror on a horse; why can't he use the TARDIS to go back to the same time period? Where's the paradox in that?

I know the Doctor said he couldn't but he never gave a credible reason. It was just author's fait so they could have the drama of the Doctor stuck in the past for a few minutes.

[Stark]

Because that's crossing his own timeline. However instead of charging through a mirror on a horse; why can't he use the TARDIS to go back to the same time period? Where's the paradox in that?

I know the Doctor said he couldn't but he never gave a credible reason. It was just author's fait so they could have the drama of the Doctor stuck in the past for a few minutes.

So, it's explained, but you didn't LIKE the explanation, so ... it doesn't count?

Call me nuts, but since all the windows were open all the time, they were simultaneously connected to all the points along Myle's life the robots had been using, particularly those they'd actually looked through. It is - literally - like asking why they don't just go back to before the ion storm and save the crew, or why they don't go warn Satellite 5 about the Daleks, or any other plot-destroying time travel that S1 directly prevented.

Of course, terrible writers killed this concept in later seasons, but hey, people on SDN liked Daleks in Manhattan so it's kinda their fault.

[Crazedwraith]

Because that's crossing his own timeline. However instead of charging through a mirror on a horse; why can't he use the TARDIS to go back to the same time period? Where's the paradox in that?

I know the Doctor said he couldn't but he never gave a credible reason. It was just author's fait so they could have the drama of the Doctor stuck in the past for a few minutes.

So, it's explained, but you didn't LIKE the explanation, so ... it doesn't count?

It's not explained. It's supposedly addressed. But what the Doctor says doesn't make sense, even compared with past examples.

Call me nuts, but since all the windows were open all the time, they were simultaneously connected to all the points along Myle's life the robots had been using, particularly those they'd actually looked through. It is - literally - like asking why they don't just go back to before the ion storm and save the crew, or why they don't go warn Satellite 5 about the Daleks, or any other plot-destroying time travel that S1 directly prevented.

It's really not. Those examples involve actual paradoxes. If they stop the Daleks before they get to Satellite 5, they won't have been on Satellite 5 thus they won't have met them and travelled back in time to stop them. That's a paradox.

Using the TARDIS to travel pack to Myle's being 37 and saving her from killer clockwork robots on the otherhand. Is not a paradox. Why is using the TARDIS rather than the time windows impossible when it won't cause a paradox?

Of course, terrible writers killed this concept in later seasons, but hey, people on SDN liked Daleks in Manhattan so it's kinda their fault.