Project: "EU-fic"

[Pelranius]

It sounds like Tarkin is filling up what seemed to be Screed's role (Screed had been described as being one of Palpatine's lieutenants).

Perhaps we could leave Tarkin to be more at the front lines while Screed instead oversees the strategic war from Coruscant?

[Admiral Felire]

Pelranius

Yeah that make sense. Tarkin seems very much of a lead from the front guy. Well, the front being in space over the targets. hehe

But yeah, I have no problem with that. And Palpatine can have multiple lieutenants. He is a popular and much supported and aided guy.

evillejedi

You made your later point after I made mine. So I need to comment. hehe

The point of our EP1 will probably be far different from the EP1 of official nature.

Your points are useful and helpful. And helped me come up with an idea.

By the way, I don't know I I want to work on the Sith War era now. That is a lot of stuff. hehe

My Thoughts on Episode 1

The political aspects should continue without much change, i.e., Palpatine should use this as a point to become Chancellor. But since the Galactic Republic is already embroidled in the Clone Wars its not a time of peace.

Naboo could still be invaded and attacked, that is not that big of a change and it could still work. Thus allowing the Queen of Naboo to go to Coruscant and work to make Palpatine Chancellor. And I have said before and I will say again, sometimes a small target can have small military benefit but huge polticial benefit. While Naboo is not a major industiral powerhouse, it is probably poltiically well-connected and taking it out or whatever the forces that attack it do could work for that.

The points are still retained of the movie without having a kiddie Anakin.

We could do it this way
*Naboo is attacked by one faction in the Clone Wars.
*The Republic sends Jedi Master Qui-Gon Jinn and his former (but no longer) apprentice, Jedi Knight Kenobi to try and solve the crisis diplomatically.
*They arrive in orbit and the sitaution is worse then it seems to be. They then shuttle down to the planet after trying to be killed by the invading forces.
*They meet up with the Queen and Qui-Gon says that she must leave and head to Coruscant.
*They take a ship and go into hyperspace but as they enter orbit they are fired upon and cannot make it all the way to Coruscant. So Obi-Wan says that he knows somebody on Tatooine, his former apprentice Jedi Knight Anakin Skywalker.
*We learn from Obi-Wan that he headed back to his homeworld because his mother was getting sick and so he took some leave from fighting in the wars.
*They head to Tatottine and things happen of an adventious move.
*They then get the ship and go to Coruscant - Kenobi has Anakin come with him.
*They go to Courscant and that scenes that occur in the movie pretty much (with the exception of Anakin Jedi testing). Senator Palpatine becoems Chancellor.
*They go to Naboo. Jedi Obi-Wan and Kenobi head after the mysterious Sith they find. Anakin goes into space (with some pilots) to fight against the invasion force. And Amidala goes to the palace.
*Qui-Gon Jinn dies. Obi-Wan kills the Sith. Anakin destroys the ship or soemthing. Padme captures the Viceroy.
*The movie ends with a note that Anakin and Obi-Wan will be heading back into the conflict that is the Clone Wars.

Minimum of change, but what does change is the stupid things. Oh, some of the battles and stuff change as well to be more realistic, but the basic points still stand.

What do you guys think?

++++++++++

Episode 1 is in the middle of the Clone Wars. And includes Palpatine becoming Chancellor.

Episode 2 will occur a year or so before the end of the Clone Wars. This episode will have a Mandalorean invasion of Alderran. Because the war has gotten to the Core, the Senate makes Palpatine Emperor to deal with the problem as he decides to see fit.

Episode 3 will be ten years after Episode 2 and will have the start of the Jedi Purge and the Duel between Anakin and Obi-Wan, creating Vader. The duel happened because Padme discovered she was pregnant and noticed that Anakin was no longer 'good'. She manges to escape with Obi-Wan to Alderran where she gives birth. She lives for a few more years afterward, acting as Leia's nanny.

Episode 4 is 20 years after Episode 3, as is normal.

These are just options and ideas. Discussion is wanted.

[Illuminatus Primus]

I liked the idea of the Sith before George Lucas turned Palpatine into one and introduced the Rule of Two. Now I think they suck and smack of minimalism.

Why? They shouldn't mirror the Jedi in every respect. Now they occupy the role of a secret society of gnostic heretics, kind of terroristic and occult in character. They should be the most exclusive club in the universe. I like the idea they have flunkies who are extensions for their will or think they're in on it when they're not. We're using Publius' works (particularly The New Order in Power, but also the presumably to-come The New Order at War) as in-house canon, so this stuff stays.

Furthermore, I have no idea what you're talking about with the old Sith. You mean the idiotic Tales of the Jedi Sith? Zombies and necromancers and black magic sorcerers? Them as a sect of Jedi heretics works much better.

And not to crib too much from Zahn, but I rather liked the scene from Outbound Flight where Kinman Doriana introduced Thrawn to Sidious via holonet. I envisioned something similar for Anakin's first encounter with the emperor even before reading that book.

There are a lot of similarities between Anakin and Thrawn, among them that the latter are both power hungry and ambitious, and stupefyingly talented Great Men. And they're both favorites of Palpatine.

I can take or leave the Rule of Two, its not that important to me. But I like the part about Palpatine being Sith, it makes sense considering what we saw of him in Return of the Jedi.

We're keeping the Rule of Two. But I'd flesh out the predecessor of and the formation of "the Heirarchy" described by The New Order in Power.

I kinda liked the idea of Anakin being a Jedi but learning from Palpatine and Palpatine's friends (like Tarkin, for example). So while Anakin is away from Palpatine he is still close by.

Me too. However the relationship between Anakin and Palpatine is one of the best in the series, by far the best thing about ROTS, and should be kept.

Here's the way I'm looking at it now.

THE REPUBLIC

THE CLONE WARS

THE DARK TIMES

THE EMPIRE

These being the major phases between the old and flawed but noble Republic and the Imperial era in ANH. Each overlaps the neighbors a bit. The classic but flawed Republic lasts for awhile in the run-up and escalation of the Clone Wars before giving way to genuine chaos and the destruction of order. The Clone Wars' winding down is characterized by real bloodiness and the beginning of really rough times - the Dark Times. Palpatine starts the programs characterizing the Empire in this period, which lasts until the Purges and his absolute grant of power - some of the way into the Empire. The effect being by Luke's era no one recalls the great old Republic as it was much, its old enough to be romanticized (like the Wilhelmine Reich by those living in the Wiemar Republic).

I'm still working on a combination/layering of multiple historical models to overlay to create the right feel. Basically, I'm thinking of keeping the formation of the Empire relatively late. I haven't decided to keep with the ROTS formula of everything at once; but the only thing I might to is roll back some is the persecution or marginalization of the Jedi earlier and formal acclamation of the Emperor (maybe a scene where after Anakin has been iron-lunged, the Emperor delivers a eulogy for the martyred hero of the Republic, and this leads to his official grants of absolute power). Basically the fundamentals of ROTS would all remain: the end of the pre-Empire era and characterizing ongoing conflicts (the Lucas Clone War-lite we were treated to in the original ROTS), Palpatine accedes to absolute power and slides out of public light, the Jedi are purged and exterminated directly, Anakin completely falls, Anakin loses to Obi-Wan in a duel and is confined to the suit, Padme/Anakin's wife leaves with Obi-Wan pregnant at 20 years before Yavin, and Obi-Wan and Yoda go into exile.

My idea of Episode I arrives with Anakin in his teens (15-16) or late teens (18-19) and already "a great pilot" (and talented gunman). He's recruited by Obi-Wan and actually participates. In Episode II we'd see him as a mature Jedi Knight and an officer in the Republic military. In Episode III he'd be a galaxy-renown general and hero.

Since OUR Anakin doesn't show up until some time in his mid-teens, he won't be on Naboo at age ten getting patted on his head by the newly-elected Chancellor Palpatine.

I'd still maintain Palpatine getting elected (in wartime though, more Churchill replacing Chamberlain). I'd maintain some analog of that scene, not with him condescendingly patting him on the head, but granting Anakin and audience, and maybe issuing him whatever their Presidential Medal of Freedom is (in parallel to Luke's medal ceremony at the end of ANH).

Come to think of it, is there some reason why we can't start Episode 1 with Anakin already at age 35 or so?

That's damn old. His development should parallel Luke's in many ways. And how old will he be when he finally sits down and to knock his wife up for the first time? His youth and maturation plays well into a father figure dynamic (with the competing influences of Obi-Wan and Palpatine).

If I had my druthers, Episode 1 would begin with Obi-Wan showing up on Tatooine at Anakin's moisture farm to recruit him for yet another "damn fool idealistic crusade." Anakin would already be a veteran Jedi Knight and married to Luke's mother (Beru's sister), thus negating any possibility of repeating the whiny teenager and the putrid romance scenes of the real prequels.

No. It misses any chance for genuine character development, and paralleling him with Luke. It misses good and deep I'd have Anakin and his mother once been slaves, but freed by his own talent and skill (without Jedi interference), living with his brother Owen on some shithole Outer Rim world (NOT Tattooine - which is where Owen and Beru emigrate to with Obi-Wan to keep Luke in hiding, "furthest from a bright center to the universe") where he's a youthful phenomena with a blaster and a snubfighter (maybe arrogant and kind of shades of a young Han Solo), being a commander of the local militia squadron by pure merit and talent at 17-18. He pairs up with Obi-Wan and his Jedi partner when they're marooned or short-cut to his homeworld for some reason. Obi-Wan convinces him to become a Jedi Knight, while Owen fumes and says that Anakin owes it to stay with his family (if we kept the mother esque relation, her death while Anakin was off on "some damn fool-idealistic crusade" would really underscore his tension with Obi-Wan. I'd think about keeping Luke and Leia's mom as a queen and to-be politician, plays off the relationship with Palpatine and it gives them a source of tension as Anakin becomes more authoritarian and militaristic in outlook. I'm thinking in the beginning the young queen (younger than Anakin) is taken by his swagger and cockiness and foolhardy heroics.

I'd have the Clone Wars take place before, during and after the PT.

The one that our heroes participate in would be the Mandalorian invasion of Alderaan.

I know everyone hates Mandalorians now because of Karen "the hottie" Traviss, but I wouldn't wank them out.

I would do something with the Mandalorians, but I'd have the Clone Wars proper wrapped up before the end of the PT. They'd start way before. I'd have Bail Organa be a serving officer in the Armed Forces, and that's how he and Obi-Wan meet (the two working together while Tarkin works with Anakin?).

[Galvatron]

I suppose my "old Anakin" is a holdover from my fantasy prequels in which he and Vader are separate people. It would work in that context. Not so much in this since Anakin must be a "young Jedi" and a pupil of Obi-Wan's.

But I'd still make him a few years old than he was in ROTS. Say, 25 or so. Around the same age that Obi-Wan looked in TPM.

And I guess we'll just have to disagree about Palpatine. I'd like to excise him as much as possible from the prequels and transfer most of his role over to Tarkin. I simply don't think Anakin requires a Force-user to induce his fall, just a calculating and manipulative type and I think Tarkin fits the bill nicely.

[Admiral Felire]

With some modification Primus I think the version I wrote of Episode 1, as well as the concepts for Episode 2 and 3, could work as you wish them to.

[Darth Hoth]

Why? They shouldn't mirror the Jedi in every respect. Now they occupy the role of a secret society of gnostic heretics, kind of terroristic and occult in character. They should be the most exclusive club in the universe. I like the idea they have flunkies who are extensions for their will or think they're in on it when they're not. We're using Publius' works (particularly The New Order in Power, but also the presumably to-come The New Order at War) as in-house canon, so this stuff stays.

Furthermore, I have no idea what you're talking about with the old Sith. You mean the idiotic Tales of the Jedi Sith? Zombies and necromancers and black magic sorcerers? Them as a sect of Jedi heretics works much better.

I always figured the Sith to be more into the dispassionate, scientific study of the Force, as Palpatine did things; the Jedi would be the mumbo jumbo sect. However, I could see Sith posing as necromancers and black magic sorcerers to put fear in their enemies or whatnots. The "real" necromancers, if we have any, could be the Krath, who studied corrupted Sith teachings and did not understand much of them.

We're keeping the Rule of Two. But I'd flesh out the predecessor of and the formation of "the Heirarchy" described by The New Order in Power.

We are? Why? I mean, if we do quite substantial rewrites of the Jedi and OR, we could reimagine the Sith as well. Why have an Order of two? That makes it supremely vulnerable to extinction by force, and precludes any reasonably serious internal politicking. A lot of story potential goes out the window, for no reason but sticking to Lucas's ret-cons.

While we are at it, I would petition for the elimination of "Darth" as a title. Kenobi quite clearly identified it as Vader's first name, pure and simple, in ANH. We should leave it at that.

[Darth Hoth]

But why do they need all of that? Are we adhering to the concept of the Jedi as Templars?

Or can we disregard that entirely and view them more as Zen-like warrior monks who serve only when needed?

My concept of the Jedi, which Illuminatus and Raptor appear to agree with, is closer to Templars. Overall, I would probably de-emphasise the religious"will of the Force" bit and make them rather more human. A formal, quasi-feudal organisation with some religious trappings would be my ideal; perhaps not a Council, but certainly a Conclave led by a Grand Master.

[Admiral Felire]

I think the Sith should 'know' everything about the Jedi, but use what is good and change or add to that which does not serve them. They are, after all, trained in the "jedi arts."

By the way I have always felt that in understanding the Force, the Jedi and Sith were on the top of the game. That their is a reason they became so powerful, they used it as it should be used (insofar as their traditions allowed) rather than be taken by the more mystical aspects.

As to the Tales of the Jedi Sith, well I have no problem with the cocnept of necromancers and zombies. I think of the Force as Magic and thus to me things like that are quite capable of occuring.

Like I said I could care less about the Rule of Two. But I do want to empahsis that I see it as two 'Real' Sith, not only two Sith. The difference is in the acoyltes, force sensitive agents and all that. They are sith in the sense but they are not like the Master or the Apprentice Sith, who know the truth.

I ageee in general with you generalized timeline.

Using the idea that I wrote above. The invasion of Naboo could be considered the begining of the Dark Times. Work with me here, Naboo is a somewhat defenseless planet and its attack and conquest shows the escalation in the war. Which is why the Republic wished to end it through diplomacy and which is why they listened to the the Queen when she arrived on the planet.

In addition, the reason Valorum was replaced was that his military polices became ineffective. He is the example of Chamberlin, with Palpatine being Churchill.

Like I said, I think the way we could have it is that the rise of the Empire aspect of Episode 3 will be in Episode 2, with the Purge and the Duel being in our Episode 3. That way we stretch out things and do not oversahdow anything. Readers will see the rise of the Empire as the pivotal moment in Episode 2, and the rise of Darth Vader in Episode 3.

Actually, it goes Rise of Palpatine in Episdoe 1, Rise of Empire in Episode 2, and Rise of Darth Vader in episode 3.

I agree that Anakin and Amidala (or Padme or whatever) should not have met before the movies. And if they are both adults (like real adults) their romance will not be so severe.

I don't think Palpatine should step out of public light as long as the war is ongoing. In fact I think that he starts his going into the back routine a few years after the War actually ends.

Your points about Episode 1 could easily be placed in the basic write-up that I wrote, without changing much of the basic point of what I was trying to do.

[Galvatron]

I don't think Palpatine should step out of public light as long as the war is ongoing. In fact I think that he starts his going into the back routine a few years after the War actually ends.

I'm not saying he should step out of the public light, just that the movies shouldn't focus on him. I also think the PT should avoid Coruscant and concentrate on the front-line action involving Anakin and Obi-Wan rather than the political machinations of the emperor.

In my prequels, Coruscant would remain off-screen as it did in the OT.

We are? Why? I mean, if we do quite substantial rewrites of the Jedi and OR, we could reimagine the Sith as well. Why have an Order of two? That makes it supremely vulnerable to extinction by force, and precludes any reasonably serious internal politicking. A lot of story potential goes out the window, for no reason but sticking to Lucas's ret-cons.

While we are at it, I would petition for the elimination of "Darth" as a title. Kenobi quite clearly identified it as Vader's first name, pure and simple, in ANH. We should leave it at that.

Endorsed.

[Admiral Felire]

See Galvatron, for me the two best scenes in all of the Prequel movies were the ones wiht politics - the one in which Palpatine goes from Senator to Chancellor adn the one where he goes from Chancellor to Emperor.

While I do agree that his day by day schedule should not be in the movie - that should be combat, battles and other fun things like that. I do think he should be there a little bit and the aspects of poltics referenced and shown.

Others get their battles or their Jedi, I get my politics.

By the way, the post you quoted was in reference to Primus talking about his view of the Prequel Movies.

Like I said I don't have a problem with removing the Rule of Two, I do think that Darth should remain a part of his title. I like it, that and Darth Sideous, Darth Plagius, Darth Tyrannus, Darth Bane and all the other Darths. It works for me.

[Galvatron]

See Galvatron, for me the two best scenes in all of the Prequel movies were the ones wiht politics - the one in which Palpatine goes from Senator to Chancellor adn the one where he goes from Chancellor to Emperor.

And I'd prefer that this all be done off-screen, just as the dissolution of the Senate was in ANH.

The political crap strikes me as being as un-Star Wars as it gets.

[Admiral Felire]

Then this Galvatron is a difference of opinion. I want politics, I want to see the various political events unfold in the galaxy. Its a very entertaining thing for me. In addition, I think it is quite star wars. I mean, finally watching Palpatine become Emperor was such a great moment and I am glad that we saw it on the screen.

And since we are not making movies we don't have a problem of scenes, time or pages to worry about.

--

By the way, if we keep the Rule of Two for the Prequel Era, I say we must get rid of it for the Palpatine Era. Once he removes the Jedi and takes control of the galaxy I cannot see him obeying that rule anymore. It might come back later on, but I don't think it should exist during the Empire era.

This is of course considering that we don't get rid of it at all.

[Darth Hoth]

No, I agree with Felire; the politics should not be left to rot off-screen, they are among the more interesting parts (or should have been, without Lucas screwing them up). Rest assured though that there will be plenty of room left for action and high adventure.

[Galvatron]

I think ANH had just the right amount of politics. The round table scene on the Death Star was good enough.

And the emperor's brief appearance as a hologram in TESB was just the right amount of his ugly mug too.

[Darth Hoth]

I would actually stick with Lucas there: The prequels are Palpatine's series, no saying twice. The Republic, the Jedi, even Anakin are just supporting characters for his rise to power.

Well, all right, tone that down a little, but he should still be one of the main cast.

[Admiral Felire]

Darth Hoth, I wish we didn't have to tone that down. I wish we could do it that way. The amazing thing about the Prequels is that pretty much everything went right for him. Over and over and over again.

So yeah, I very much want to see Palpatine. I want to see politics. I want to see change in the way the system works.

And I also want starships. And battles. And wars. And planets. And Jedi.

[Pelranius]

Should we keep Plagueis at all? Since I assume that we're not doing Anakin's "virgin" birth, we'd probably have to dial down his character to just being Palpatine's master.

And Anakin's family, should they get any mention or be treated as part of the background?

[Galvatron]

I would actually stick with Lucas there: The prequels are Palpatine's series, no saying twice. The Republic, the Jedi, even Anakin are just supporting characters for his rise to power.

Well, all right, tone that down a little, but he should still be one of the main cast.

And here I thought it should be about Obi-Wan and Anakin. Maybe we can devote an entire episode to Boba Fett!

Darth Hoth, I wish we didn't have to tone that down. I wish we could do it that way. The amazing thing about the Prequels is that pretty much everything went right for him. Over and over and over again.

No kidding. It's a good thing Dexter Jettster knew that the dart that killed Zam Wessel was Kaminoan! Otherwise the Jedi may never have known about the clones.

And it's a good thing the Jedi were too retarded to actually look into the whole Sifo Dyas mystery and why the clones were based on a bounty hunter who was secretly working for Count Dooku! Nothing suspicious there!

[Darth Hoth]

I would like to get rid of the lame Sith names (No "Darth Whatever" at all, and certainly not Prequel/Legacy wordplay naming), but the character could be kept - obviously Palpatine did have a Dark Master somewhere way back. But he need not be explored in any detail.

Depending on when we introduce Anakin, we can have much or little detail on his family. Of course, I would like to see a lot of fluff either way.

[Darth Hoth]

And here I thought it should be about Obi-Wan and Anakin. Maybe we can devote an entire episode to Boba Fett!

I was using hyperbole, all right? Of course they are important as well, and Anakin should arguably be the main character (not "TEH CHOOSENED UN", merely a great hero, but still pivotal). But Palpatine as a major player and onscreen presence is something I would like to keep.

[Admiral Felire]

I just think the Plagueis is the master of Palpatine. Nothing more spectacular than he was a predecessor Sith. Which is a pretty spectacular thing if you ask me.

I think Anakin's family should be in the background. They will get importance later on as being the ones to raise Luke, but they are not that great.

I like Darth whatever. I think it should be kept. I think the idea of once you become a Sith you are a different person than you were before is a nice difference to the Jedi.

So I vote that Darth Vader, Darth Sideous, Darth Tyrannus, Darth Plagius, Darth Bane and all the others be kept.

Though I don't think the ancestors of the Sith are that important in the great scheme of things in our movies.

[Galvatron]

Am I the only one who thinks that the rise of the Empire should be treated as a backdrop for the prequels rather than the main story?

[Admiral Felire]

Probably not in general, but I think that maybe among the participates in this thread, yeah. Opinions on this differ and there is nothing wrong with either side. But I personally want to see the rise of the Empire as one of the dominant storylines. Not the only main storylines, just one of them.

[Darth Hoth]

Am I the only one who thinks that the rise of the Empire should be treated as a backdrop for the prequels rather than the main story?

I guess I just do not see why we cannot have both. The rise of the Empire is important enough, and Palpatine's character interesting enough, to include. And a lot of people do seem interested in the political side.

[Galvatron]

Because it bores me. And I think the OT did just fine without a lot of "meanwhile, back on Coruscant..." type scenes.