Project: "EU-fic"

[Admiral Felire]

The ending of the Clone Wars that we see on the films with an attack on Coruscant or Alderaan is a huge bang.

I don't think the Clone Wars need to end that way, I think the movies need to end that way.

And I see no reason why Anakin needs to rebel. He chooses to join and keep following the Empire.

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And Galvatron, I pretty much disagree with everything you have been saying in the last few posts.

Primus, I don't have any problem with Anakin not being the main point of the story in Episode 1.

Of course in my view his inclusion will be so much larger. He will be given more adult things on both Tatootine and Naboo, fighting and visible aspects. He won't be see at the very beginign but that is not that long of a sequece.

That is what the stories of the Prequal Trilogy movies are about. I see the Clone Wars, I see Anakin and Padme's love, I see the Jedi, I see the Fall of Anakin and the rise of Palpatine, I see the Fall of Republic and ris eof Empire. I see it all and I think its entritched becuase of its many faceted nature.

I think the major points of Palpatine leading the war as Chancellor and him beocming Emperor belong in the movies. I think Anakin meeting Padme should be in the movie. I think the rise of the Empire should be in the movie. I think the Duel should be in the movie. The birth of twins. The start of the Purge. The end of the Republic. I think these deserve the spotlight in the movies, nomatter hwo they might be overshadowed a minute or so after by combat. They fit and they should be in there.

And your point about Episode 6 doesn't work because the way it ends is such a way that the Empire dissapears forever and their is a happy ever after - it is a fantasy afterall. So I don't think that means anything in this argument at all.

I say we look at the basics of what happened in the actual first three episodes, decide what should stay, remove or change what doesn't work, and add more things to fill in the blanks we made my taking things out.

[Illuminatus Primus]

The ending of the Clone Wars that we see on the films with an attack on Coruscant or Alderaan is a huge bang.

I don't think the Clone Wars need to end that way, I think the movies need to end that way.

That's fine, but it doesn't need to be exactly as it occurred.

Primus, I don't have any problem with Anakin not being the main point of the story in Episode 1.

I do. TPM's major weakness was a lack of direction and focus. It was trying to do so much it failed to compellingly and maturely address the question: Who is Anakin Skywalker? How is going to become Darth Vader?

Of course in my view his inclusion will be so much larger. He will be given more adult things on both Tatootine and Naboo, fighting and visible aspects. He won't be see at the very beginign but that is not that long of a sequece.

Why should we keep Tattooine at all? I don't want to. Make it where Owen emigrates with his wife and nephew to hide from Vader.

That is what the stories of the Prequal Trilogy movies are about. I see the Clone Wars, I see Anakin and Padme's love, I see the Jedi, I see the Fall of Anakin and the rise of Palpatine, I see the Fall of Republic and ris eof Empire. I see it all and I think its entritched becuase of its many faceted nature.

And it doesn't do a good job of those things. Because you can't compress a well-fleshed-out and compelling Clone Wars into Anakin's adulthood maturation. You can't flesh out an entire galaxy of politics. You can't have a romance and a tragedy competing for center stage. These things can exist, but the tragic arc should be center-focus, like Luke's hero's journey in the OT.

I think the major points of Palpatine leading the war as Chancellor and him beocming Emperor belong in the movies. I think Anakin meeting Padme should be in the movie. I think the rise of the Empire should be in the movie. I think the Duel should be in the movie. The birth of twins. The start of the Purge. The end of the Republic. I think these deserve the spotlight in the movies, nomatter hwo they might be overshadowed a minute or so after by combat. They fit and they should be in there.

Palpatine becoming Emperor and the Purge will be shown, because Anakin's relationship with Palpatine is a quintessential part of the PT, and because Anakin "hunts down and destroys" the Jedi Knights. I'm not saying we should have three installments of Anakin being emo.

And your point about Episode 6 doesn't work because the way it ends is such a way that the Empire dissapears forever and their is a happy ever after - it is a fantasy afterall. So I don't think that means anything in this argument at all.

Only for those who are naive. Everyone else accepted the tacit assumption of the EU: that there'd be more to fight to consolidate the victory. We realistically know better, EU or otherwise.

I say we look at the basics of what happened in the actual first three episodes, decide what should stay, remove or change what doesn't work, and add more things to fill in the blanks we made my taking things out.

Sure, but my pruning shears are sharp. I'd keep Naboo and the Queen, but I'm with Galvatron. Its a tragedy; you see him high and great and you see him fall from that grace. The hero's journey is the opposite, you see him young and immature and naive, and you see him mature and become great. In this context, the "where did Anakin come from?" question is just like the "where does Luke go?" question.

[Galvatron]

Why keep Naboo and the queen?

Here's the biggest obstacle preventing me from ditching Tatooine:

"He didn't hold with your father's ideals. He thought he should have stayed here and not gotten involved."

I like to think that Obi-Wan's story in ANH wasn't entirely fabricated.

[Admiral Felire]

I didn't. I enjoyed Episode 1. I thought it was pretty entertaining and did what it was supposed to do okay. Episode 1 had four sections - Naboo 1, Tatooine, Couscant, Naboo 2. It introduced the various main characters and it showed us how things worked.

Now, I dislike Anakin as a whiny little brat, but I didn't have a problem with being introduced to him when they left Naboo to go to Tatooine.

I mentioned Tatooine because that is where htey have it in the movie. If we change it so that they leave Naboo and head to a space colony or a old world or something, that is fine as well.

Hell, we could have them leave Naboo and go to a space station where Obi-Wan knows Anakin is cause they want to get his support in the proection of Queen Amidala.

Having them emigrate to Tatooine after the Fall is fine with me.

I think that it does an okay job at its points. I don't have a problem with the various plot sections. The dialog might need work, the general flow needs work, but the basic ideology of the episodes work for me. Things of course need to be changed, just not whole cloth.

Like I said before in threads you never directly replied too. I think Palpatine becoming Emperor should be in Episode 2 while the Purge and the Duel happens in Episode 3. That way we don't overshadow any particular part rather srpead it out.

And on the issue of the happy ever after, yeah, I agree most people ignore it. That wasn't the point I was making, I was pointing out the problem in the movie and how it ends. But we are sticking with it and how it decides taht all things end happily.

Honestly, from reading the topics your not actually with Galvatron. He wants to throw it all out and start from scratch. You agree with some of his points, but not the throw it out point.

I say that we look at the general topics of what the episodes convey and modify them to fit in with what we want to do. Actually, that is how I am lookign at this entire project. I will take a book, a movie an article a comic and I will say "what is the theme" I will discard taht which cannot be saved, but anything that can be saved or can have a minimum of modiciation before its usable then should be saved.

We should look at what happens in the movie and go "what can we use."

In addition, the best way to show the tragedy would for us to see him when he is already a Jedi. Thus the idea of Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon going to where he is. They meet him, they have him aid them. We see a battle leader who, while he hasn't made a name for himself galactic wise yet, is already battle worthy.

In the span of a single episode he meets both his wife (who is his happiness) and his downfall (palpatine).

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In my thoughts the real Episode 1 is the easiest to salvage.

In Episode 2 the marriage can be saved but that is pretty much it.

In Episode 3, the ascension, the duel and the purge can be kept in theory though the first is in episode 2 and the later are in episode 3. In addition they are also expanded greatly.

Huge battles also need to be seen. In Episode 1 its the Battle for Naboo. In Episode 2 its the Battle for Coruscant (or Alderran) which causes the galaxy to want an Emperor. And in Episode 3 the battles are the Duel, the fights of the Purge, and some basic clean up operations.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Meh, have him referring to their home, basically quoting Owen. If I could I'd keep them from going back to Tattooine in ROTJ. I hate the fucking place. If it was up to me, no one would ever go there after Luke leaves in ANH. Ever. The bounty hunter was just on a tip and followed Han to Tattooine. Jabba's base of operations was on another world altogether and Han was just laying low on a NOWHERE DUSTBALL and looking for somewhere to stash his stuff and avoid Jabba until he scrounged up enough to pay him off.

[Admiral Felire]

I think we need to keep Naboo and the Queen because the entire point of that plot is to show Palpatine's manipulations in his rise. That he would use a planet to propel him to higher levels.

We should, of course, increase the scope of the forces against Naboo as well as those that liberate it.

My thought, and that which I wrote out in the Episode 1 program that I created pages back, has Obi-Wan going to Tatooine after Naboo because he knows his former apprentice Anakin is on their taking a short sabatacle from fighting./

To me that aspect works.

But if we decide to make them go to another planet or a space station or whatever that is fine as well.

In addition, I always thought that Tatooine was a great place because Vader would not have wanted to go to that planet since it brings back so many bad memories.

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But we cannot change that Tatooine is somewhat important becuase its in the sources we are accepting. And really, its a pretty small change that is meaningless.

That said, I do agree that post-Endor that planet is not important.

[Galvatron]

I have a hard time mentally reconciling "stayed here" in Obi-Wan's quote as referring to anything other than Tatooine.

Of course, we could start Episode 1 after Anakin leaves Tatooine behind with Obi-Wan. Hell, it could even be covered in the opening scroll. Think of how much exposition you can get out of the way in those three little paragraphs.

[Illuminatus Primus]

I still want them to be from a different Outer Rim world. Maybe here referring to the sector or region; just generally stayed in an area of relative safety with his family instead of leaving for war?

[Admiral Felire]

I say we start Episode 1 on Naboo with two Jedi Knights Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan. The reason for Qui-Gon is so that he can be killed by Darth Maul. They then head to Tatooine (or whever Anakin is) where the meet an adult him and then they go to Corsucant. After the adventurers on Coruscant they go back to Naboo for a huge battle.

Simple, conscience, fixed of a lot of problems and it works. Why change it.

I've said this before, and I will continue to say it. I think its a major point and I think in a case like this less change is better.

[Illuminatus Primus]

I think Naboo is interesting (except for the Gungans), as an origin world for Palpatine, and Anakin's wife being an aristocrat or politician or both from the same world gives him an early excuse to be near Palpatine and his inner circle aside from his heroism and fame. I could use it in Ep I but HIGHLY modified. The story would be changed of course, Obi-Wan and Anakin are going back on a "crusade" being veterans and - especially Anakin - a famous knight hero of the wars. Meanwhile Palpatine is already in power and machining to keep it indefinitely. Among his coterie is Tarkin, who is advising strategies for a post-war era of security through strength of arms and intimidation, and pushing for reforms of the Republic. The Sith and the "phantom menace" would be the main enemies of this arc. It would be much greyer than black and white. Many of the enemies wouldn't be holdouts, but rather, opponents of Palpatine that the Jedi and other protagonists increasingly sympathize with, but not until its too late and Palpatine is unassailable.

[Galvatron]

Hell, if we're sticking to DE, why not have Palpatine be the senator from Byss?

I'd drop Naboo entirely and use Alderaan instead.

Meanwhile, I'd rather introduce Palpatine in a similar way to the beginning of ROTS (credit to Lucas for that). Have him get abducted by the enemy, taken to some impenetrable stronghold and the Jedi have to bust him out. Ironically, it would mirror the rescue of Princess Leia from the Death Star.

I want to avoid Coruscant as much as you want to avoid Tatooine.

[Karmic Knight]

I think Naboo is interesting (except for the Gungans), as an origin world for Palpatine, and Anakin's wife being an aristocrat or politician or both from the same world gives him an early excuse to be near Palpatine and his inner circle aside from his heroism and fame. I could use it in Ep I but HIGHLY modified. The story would be changed of course, Obi-Wan and Anakin are going back on a "crusade" being veterans and - especially Anakin - a famous knight hero of the wars. Meanwhile Palpatine is already in power and machining to keep it indefinitely. Among his coterie is Tarkin, who is advising strategies for a post-war era of security through strength of arms and intimidation, and pushing for reforms of the Republic. The Sith and the "phantom menace" would be the main enemies of this arc. It would be much greyer than black and white. Many of the enemies wouldn't be holdouts, but rather, opponents of Palpatine that the Jedi and other protagonists increasingly sympathize with, but not until its too late and Palpatine is unassailable.

I fully support this being the broad story of the PT analogue.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Hell, if we're sticking to DE, why not have Palpatine be the senator from Byss?

The entire point of Byss is that its as secret as secret gets, and totally cut-off from the outside galaxy.

I'd drop Naboo entirely and use Alderaan instead.

Why be derivative? Why not show both? One of the strengths of the OT is variety and never getting stuck at a particular place.

Meanwhile, I'd rather introduce Palpatine in a similar way to the beginning of ROTS (credit to Lucas for that). Have him get abducted by the enemy, taken to some impenetrable stronghold and the Jedi have to bust him out.

Hmm. That's interesting. So basically you'd be taking a combination of ROTS' concept (and light bits of AOTC) and stretching them out into a trilogy? Good idea, considering they're the only parts staying on topic.

I want to avoid Coruscant as much as you want to avoid Tatooine.

Leave it until Ep III. Also, like the OT, keep the plot tight without enormous interludes. Keep the entire PT under 10 years, maybe as few as 5, or, like the OT, 4.

[Admiral Felire]

I say keep Naboo as Palpatine's homeworld. It works.

I say that we visit Coruscant at least a few times. Its a major planet and should be visited due to the nature of things.

If we have it attacked then I think we should see it at least once before it gets attacked. So that we see a nice view before the flaming wreckage starts blocking our view.

So your saying that Palpatine is already Chancellor in Episode 1. That could work, cause then in Episode 2 he becomes Emperor. The flow is already achieved.

It also means that his plans have already begun, unlike the current version when his plans just began.

I don't have a problem with your general modification Primus. We look to see what we need to keep and then we keep it while throwing out that which we cannot.

[Galvatron]

Couldn't the records of Byss have been erased following the emperor's rise to power the same way Kamino was from the Jedi archives in the real prequels?

Palpatine's abduction and rescue would be the focus of only one episode, not the whole trilogy. Maybe he'd be taken to Mandalore, thus setting into motion the events I described before.

[Admiral Felire]

I say we separate Palpatine becoming Emperor and the Purge/Duel by an episode. Havign them in one episode seems to sudden.

I also say that we visit both Alderran and Coruscant.

Palpatine being captured during the second episode is not a bad thing in my opinion.

I say keep Byss out of it. No need to mention the world. Its hidden in the Deep Core, it should stay until the Dark Empire series.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Couldn't the records of Byss have been erased following the emperor's rise to power the same way Kamino was from the Jedi archives in the real prequels?

Kamino was already a world on the fringes of society without much contact. You're talking about a world where the greatest person of recent history was from and represented in the Senate. And you're talking about no one being able to get there (unlike Kamino, which once realized was gone, was quickly found).

Palpatine's abduction and rescue would be the focus of only one episode, not the whole trilogy. Maybe he'd be taken to Mandalore, thus setting into motion the events I described before.

I'd prefer that the Mandalorians remained allies of the Sith (regardless if they were aware of it). I suppose you can technically have this if he's running them as Sidious just like he was running the CIS through Dooku as Sidious.

The big adventures would start out with the winding-down, mop-up of the Clone Wars, and continue with them hunting down the organizers and instigators and war criminals (Grevious, anyone?) who remain at large and those who are still opposed to the Republic (increasingly these will be legitimate opposition to an increasingly dictatorial and monarchical Palpatine). The Jedi would find traces of the Sith at work and look to uncover them, but there might be Jedi who see the storm coming and betray Palpatine early as well; get your lightsaber duels and foreshadowing with Anakin pursuing traitors. As the trilogy goes on, Anakin goes from being a knight-hero-savior of the galaxy to the righteous swift sword of Palpatine (who ends up getting Vader, the terrible swift sword, almost as good).

I think there be an impeding Jedi-conservative Republican coup that Anakin, having been secretly receiving some Sith tutelage from Palpatine since the end of II, betray to him. He should become Emperor in III (like the Military Creation Act, have his supermajority and popular support clamoring for it well before the coup, but like the impending seperatist crisis in AOTC, the coup totally seals the deal).

[Galvatron]

Matter of fact, I was thinking that Grievous would make an excellent Mandalorian warlord.

And I have no problem with recycling Maul, Ventress or Durge either so long as they're used well. For all I care, they could be window dressing like the bounty hunters on the bridge of the Executor in TESB.

Hell, you put a nice head of hair on Ventress and she'd be good fapping material for the fanboys.

[Darth Raptor]

I fully support this being the broad story of the PT analogue.

Thirded. Consider me in general support of IP's prequel concept. The canon PT bites off more than it can chew and chokes on it. There's no reason we should attempt to tell the whole story in three movies at the expense of a (singular) GOOD story.

[Admiral Felire]

I'm curious to see how you would divide your indea into three distinct movies. What sorts of basic plot and events points would you have in your movies.

But I would like to state that both politics and combat need to be included.

[Illuminatus Primus]

I think we'll err, like the OT, on the side of combat, not politicking. The real heavy stuff is for things like The New Order in Power, its not for the epic story. Seperate the sourcebook from the adventure, the history from the drama.

You could stretch the conflicts of ROTS into the three movies, just like the general story of ROTS (how Anakin becomes Darth Vader and chooses Palpatine over the Jedi) is now being stretched over the whole thing. I'd keep what little stuff from the PT I could, worlds and characters what have you. But how about the Battle of Coruscant analog (Palpatine being saved, like suggested by Galvy) is Ep I, the Battle of Utapau analog (hunting down warlords like Grevious, also suggested by Galvy, maybe elements of the Battle of Geonosis or Naboo too) for Ep II, and Ep III the action is putting down the coup attempt and Great Purge (which is much more than just the Jedi; I'd have the conservative Republicans and oldthinkers purged with them). You could have lesser conflicts with inspiration by the Battles of Naboo and Geonosis too of course.

[Darth Raptor]

As long as these are novelizations and not screenplays, exposition on the historical and political background of the first three episodes shouldn't be a problem. You can get away with a lot more of what would be dead air and wasted time (*cough* LotR *cough) in novel format.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Still, they should keep with the style, which is fairy tale-esque and somewhat romantic and pulpy. I think visual descriptions and romanticism should be most of your fluffy writing, not exposition and infodumping.

[Admiral Felire]

My one demand is that we actually see Palpatine be crowned Emperor. That the scene within the Senate Chamber occurs, even if it occurs differently. That NEEDS to be shown. Palpatine needs to have that win visible on screen, its one of the more epic moments in all of Star Wars.

We also need to see the creation of Moffs and their sending throughout the galaxy.

That said, okay, the general timeline of most prequel events could be brought into books.

Do you want Palpatine to become Emperor in 2 or 3. I recommend at the end of 2 that way we can have the putting down the coup be pretty much all of 3.

Episode 1 could have Palpatine captured in the Battle of Coruscant. Which is a pretty epic battle. It will also need to include something else, probably a lot relating to Anakin and his corruption by Palpatine. Innocent though it might be at this time. I think we should also have him meet Padme at this time. Who could be the Senator from Naboo, since Palpatine is already Chancellor.

The movie could start with a star destroyer-shaped ship moving over Coruscant. We think its alone at first but then as we pan out we realize that its actually not alone, that it is one ship in a huge fleet trying to defend the planet as the separatists (general use for the enemy) attack.

Episode 2 will be a few years after Episode 1 and will be pretty much the concept of the Galactic Government trying to clean up Separatist actions. So the enemies of Episode 2 are still the enemies of the Clone Wars, they are not urstwhile allies. This Episode will end with Palpatine being crowned.

Episode 3 will be after a note that the certain Republic factions decided that Palpatine is not who they thought he was. The battles of this movie will show some internal cleaning, the removal of those forces that were allied in Episode 1 or 2. It will have as its cumulative peace the Duel and the Vaderization of Anakin. As it ends we will see Darth Vader marching into a planet or something killing Jedi directly and openly. It will end with the twin suns of Tatooine. This could be the only time it is shown in the Prequel, but it needs to be shown.

[Pelranius]

Palpatine is more likely to crown himself. Unless you want Yoda to do it, which would keep with the theme of the Jedi having a hand in the business, but it would look rather awkward to say the lest.