One of the saddest things I've read in a while.

[FSTargetDrone]

That was really unpleasant to read.

Then be sure not to watch the video I linked above. But I recommend it anyhow. It talks a bit about the man who runs RAM. Incidentally, the budget for last year was $250,000.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Actually, the Fluoride nazi brings up an interesting point:

Water fluoridation in terms of dental hygiene is probably one of the most important concepts since the invention of toothpaste.

It prevents tooth decay, and prevents a shitload of suffering, to the point where fluoride compounds are put in table salt just for places like this where there is not central water treatment.

And guess what? There are conspiracy theory loons who think it is a toxic pollutant that is killing our children.

[TimothyC]

Look at the ages for the mother and the daughter. For some reason I'm not surprised at all with this.

You're not surprised that your fellow countrymen don't have the right to the minimum care required for human decency, even if they're low class? This situation would make governments fall in countries comparatively much poorer than the US.

More that a woman who had a kid at 15 has lost all of her teeth. It is sad that she has, but at some point I just don't feel anything anymore.

[ArmorPierce]

Truly a sad story, but it makes me wonder just how well these people are taking care of their teeth, particularly the 28 year-old daughter. Are they so poor that hey can't afford a toothbrush?

You do realize that some people suffer from dental problems that won't be solved simply by flossing and brushing your teeth. I have some teeth problem due to me grinding while asleep that made life unpleasant and wasn't spotted for years due to not having money for dentist (or money for orthopedic work to correct for an overbite which would alleviate it) and was too late to stop problems from occuring needing me to have a tooth crowned.

[Darth Wong]

And guess what? There are conspiracy theory loons who think it is a toxic pollutant that is killing our children.

Actually, there is no doubt that it is toxic. Here's the MSDS for hexafluorosilicic acid: link

The medical community is unconcerned about the danger because the concentration is low, but the additive itself is definitely toxic.

Here is an article about the issue from a major national newspaper, not some kook website. The gist of it is that a growing body of evidence suggests that water fluoridation is actually a waste of time because it is topical application to the teeth which matters, not ingestion. In other words, fluoridated toothpaste is a good idea, but fluoridated water is a complete waste of time.

[Chardok]

The gist of it is that a growing body of evidence suggests that water fluoridation is actually a waste of time because it is topical application to the teeth which matters, not ingestion. In other words, fluoridated toothpaste is a good idea, but fluoridated water is a complete waste of time.

um...but in order to ingest, isn't it applied topically?

[Lonestar]

And guess what? There are conspiracy theory loons who think it is a toxic pollutant that is killing our children.

<------

Yo.

[Darth Wong]

The gist of it is that a growing body of evidence suggests that water fluoridation is actually a waste of time because it is topical application to the teeth which matters, not ingestion. In other words, fluoridated toothpaste is a good idea, but fluoridated water is a complete waste of time.

um...but in order to ingest, isn't it applied topically?

Yes, but with relatively insignificant effectiveness, and with far greater (unnecessary) exposure for the rest of your body.

[Alyrium Denryle]

And guess what? There are conspiracy theory loons who think it is a toxic pollutant that is killing our children.

Actually, there is no doubt that it is toxic. Here's the MSDS for hexafluorosilicic acid: link

The medical community is unconcerned about the danger because the concentration is low, but the additive itself is definitely toxic.

Here is an article about the issue from a major national newspaper, not some kook website. The gist of it is that a growing body of evidence suggests that water fluoridation is actually a waste of time because it is topical application to the teeth which matters, not ingestion. In other words, fluoridated toothpaste is a good idea, but fluoridated water is a complete waste of time.

I will have to search through the peer reviewed lit then. My info is a tad out of date (not enough free time, did the research once years and years ago and was done with it)

[Imperial Overlord]

I have some teeth problem due to me grinding while asleep that made life unpleasant and wasn't spotted for years due to not having money for dentist (or money for orthopedic work to correct for an overbite which would alleviate it) and was too late to stop problems from occuring needing me to have a tooth crowned.

Both my parents and I are tooth grinders. Without the money for regular dental check ups and the treatment (mouth guards fitted for your teeth) that will significantly add to the wear and tear on your teeth.

[ArmorPierce]

Not to mention the fact that I never got the mouth guard because I don't have any more money for that. I am now using store bought general ones. They worked remarkably well. For years I had clicking in my jaw and bordering lock jaw and over a few weeks that was solved with the store bought mouth guard.

[Julhelm]

Just how expensive are dentists in the US? Even when I was on welfare I could still muster the €50 cost of an annual dental check, and I have a private dentist.

[Broomstick]

Look at the ages for the mother and the daughter. For some reason I'm not surprised at all with this.

You're not surprised that your fellow countrymen don't have the right to the minimum care required for human decency, even if they're low class? This situation would make governments fall in countries comparatively much poorer than the US.

More that a woman who had a kid at 15 has lost all of her teeth. It is sad that she has, but at some point I just don't feel anything anymore.

If she had a child at 15 then, most likely, some of the calcium that would have gone to her skeleton and teeth for "finishing touches" was probably diverted to the baby instead... meaning she's at higher risk for both dental problems and osteoporosis regardless of hygiene issues.

Fluoridation of water is NOT routine in Appalachia, further contributing to problems.

Even if you brush and floss religiously, you still need to see a dentist regularly for maintenance and to correct any problems early. As noted, dentists who accept Medicaid/poor patients are few and far between in Appalachia.

And you sir are a heartless git. Even if the woman made some poor decisions in life she doesn't deserve to suffer in pain on a daily basis.

[Broomstick]

Just how expensive are dentists in the US? Even when I was on welfare I could still muster the €50 cost of an annual dental check, and I have a private dentist.

Routine cleanings are around $110.

About fluoridated water - at the time this was started it was already known that topical application was more effective but the rationale behind fluoridating the water supply was that it would benefit poor people who couldn't afford a dentist, in other words, better than nothing.

As it happens, my parents paid out of pocket for direct flouride treatments to our teeth as kids. My mom's teeth were gone by 45, but her kids still have all their teeth and very few cavities. I don't think any of us has had a root canal.

[Master of Ossus]

Just how expensive are dentists in the US? Even when I was on welfare I could still muster the €50 cost of an annual dental check, and I have a private dentist.

Routine cleanings are around $110.

That's a little on the high side, but realistically the issue here isn't that the woman in the study could've gotten her teeth cleaned for $100 and didn't have enough to afford that. The issue is that Appalachia is so sparsely populated, rural, and poor, that there are huge areas without a large enough population to support the sort of dental and health care clinics. It would be like trying to set up a health care clinic in the middle of Siberia: sure, there's going to be a few customers, but not enough to keep the doctor in his clinic all year, and maybe not even enough to get him to stop by twice a year to conduct his practice.

[Broomstick]

Just how expensive are dentists in the US? Even when I was on welfare I could still muster the €50 cost of an annual dental check, and I have a private dentist.

Routine cleanings are around $110.

That's a little on the high side

That's because I live near the 3rd largest city in the country and rates for medical care around here are slightly higher than average. This will, of course, be balanced by other areas being less.

The issue is that Appalachia is so sparsely populated, rural, and poor, that there are huge areas without a large enough population to support the sort of dental and health care clinics. It would be like trying to set up a health care clinic in the middle of Siberia: sure, there's going to be a few customers, but not enough to keep the doctor in his clinic all year, and maybe not even enough to get him to stop by twice a year to conduct his practice.

My college roommate had her medical school paid for by the Federal government in exchange for serving just such an area for a number of years. Perhaps we should start a similar program for dentists, if such does not already exist.

In other words, there are ways to subsidize humane care to people in rural areas. If we putting a dentist out there full time is impractical perhaps we could have "circuit riders" that would pass through an area 3-4 times per year, rotating between various communities.

There are ways to solve this problem... if we want it solved. But currently the US is in "devil take the hindmost" mode, a greed-based outlook that basically says fuck the poor, they deserve to suffer.

[Knife]

ghetto edit- my above post was a response to Surlethe.

In response to Bounty and Alyrium; that may all be true, but my sympathies are still limited. "Processed pastas and breads that are loaded with simple sugars" pretty much describes my diet during my childhood and teen years, yet just doing the bare minimum of tooth maintenance prevented my teeth from rotting away. Maybe I'm just a special case.

Congratulations; you've just made a 'I've got mine, fuck you for not being like me' argument.

[Master of Ossus]

That's because I live near the 3rd largest city in the country and rates for medical care around here are slightly higher than average. This will, of course, be balanced by other areas being less.

Sure, I can easily believe that.

My college roommate had her medical school paid for by the Federal government in exchange for serving just such an area for a number of years. Perhaps we should start a similar program for dentists, if such does not already exist.

In other words, there are ways to subsidize humane care to people in rural areas. If we putting a dentist out there full time is impractical perhaps we could have "circuit riders" that would pass through an area 3-4 times per year, rotating between various communities.

There are ways to solve this problem... if we want it solved. But currently the US is in "devil take the hindmost" mode, a greed-based outlook that basically says fuck the poor, they deserve to suffer.

I'm pretty sure that there are similar programs for dentists and DDSes, but dentistry isn't even like normal physicians in the sense that they really need stable population centers in which to operate. I like your idea of having the circuit riders, but that would be pretty hard with dental clinics because they tend to have really high fixed costs (it's not cheap to put in a dental X-ray machine, for instance, and just leave it there for a long time, let alone the rest of the equipment). I think you'd have to be careful in how you set it up.

[eyl]

I'm pretty sure that there are similar programs for dentists and DDSes, but dentistry isn't even like normal physicians in the sense that they really need stable population centers in which to operate. I like your idea of having the circuit riders, but that would be pretty hard with dental clinics because they tend to have really high fixed costs (it's not cheap to put in a dental X-ray machine, for instance, and just leave it there for a long time, let alone the rest of the equipment). I think you'd have to be careful in how you set it up.

Portable X-ray machines do exist - are they unsuitable (or can't be modified to be suitable) for dental work for some reason? If it's a federally funded program, you could maybe create mobile clinics ("toothmobiles" ) which make the rounds through remote communities several times year (actually, I encountered such a mobile clinic in the IDF, though I don't remember if it had an X-ray machine)

[Broomstick]

My college roommate had her medical school paid for by the Federal government in exchange for serving just such an area for a number of years. Perhaps we should start a similar program for dentists, if such does not already exist.

In other words, there are ways to subsidize humane care to people in rural areas. If we putting a dentist out there full time is impractical perhaps we could have "circuit riders" that would pass through an area 3-4 times per year, rotating between various communities.

There are ways to solve this problem... if we want it solved. But currently the US is in "devil take the hindmost" mode, a greed-based outlook that basically says fuck the poor, they deserve to suffer.

I'm pretty sure that there are similar programs for dentists and DDSes, but dentistry isn't even like normal physicians in the sense that they really need stable population centers in which to operate. I like your idea of having the circuit riders, but that would be pretty hard with dental clinics because they tend to have really high fixed costs (it's not cheap to put in a dental X-ray machine, for instance, and just leave it there for a long time, let alone the rest of the equipment). I think you'd have to be careful in how you set it up.

What makes you think that physicians don't need "stable population centers"? The problem of setting up dental equipment that doesn't get used much is exactly the same for a small medical clinic as for a dental clinic, perhaps more so for medicine which not only needs x-rays but ultrasound, wider selection of pharmaceuticals, testing labs...

Portable equipment exists. Yes, there is a cost. There is also a cost to people being in pain, requiring root canals instead of simple cavities, require dentures... The difference is that setting up a dental clinic takes money from those who have money (either donations or taxes) whereas doing nothing takes money and pain from the poor.

[ArmorPierce]

Just 110 for a cleaning? I mustered up the money to go to the dentist for a check up and it cost me over $200 (no insurance) and he wanted to charge 200 per cavity. 800 for the onlay (which I'm suspecting wasn't needed but he pushed for it and I caved).

[FireNexus]

Just how expensive are dentists in the US? Even when I was on welfare I could still muster the €50 cost of an annual dental check, and I have a private dentist.

The annual checks aren't the biggest problem. The cost of dental work is. Even with dental insurance (which is universally shitty) I am unable to afford to get the root canals and crowns I need on two of my teeth. Eating is a constant pain for me, and eventually I'm going to just have to get the teeth ripped out for my own sanity.

Fuck this "greatest healthcare system in the world" shit. Calling us the best by the major of how advanced our medicine can be is like saying we have the best economy because it's the biggest. There are other measures to greatness. Fuck America. Fuck it long and hard straight up the ass with a cactus.