phongn wrote:
Well, everyone has guided missiles; the only thing apparently prohibited at the moment are SRBMs and larger.
SRBMs are banned? That doesn’t work, since the definition of an SRBM is simply a missile with less then 1000km range. I propose instead we just adapt a firm limit on starting ballistic missile performance; mainly a range limit of 300km and a payload limit of 500kg (same as that of the MTCR treaty). This allows for a wide range of tactical ballistic missiles and SAMs that have SSM capability like Nike-Hercules and Patriot (no mistake), without creating any real scope for strategic bombardment. Even with nerve gas you just aren’t going to kill many people with weapons this big, and it would take a long time to get nukes that weigh under 500kg. By that point people will have whole new missiles.
Missiles with this kind of performance would have the potential to put a very small payload into a very low orbit, but as I’ve said before I’m not adverse to the idea of spaceflight existing on a very limited scope. The limitation to V-2 technology is just totally illogical in a world in which allows mach 6 surface to air missiles that can be turned into SSMs at the flick of a switch.
My proposal is involves that nukes simply don't exist, and there are certain weapon system thus involved that wouldn't either. SSBNs would have no reason to exist, as well as the larger rockets (IRBMs and bigger). In conjunction with the lack of larger rockets, there is currently no space program.
However, if you want ATACMS, you're golden. Nothing preventing you from grabbing something similar either.
I'll add to the proposal MCMs, at 1 pt apiece.
"preemptive killing of cops might not be such a bad idea from a personal saftey[sic] standpoint..." --Keevan Colton
"There's a word for bias you can't see: Yours." -- William Saletan
You know what? I really dislike all these choads(to include RI) who want to be Island nations.
"Hurr hurr I want a degree of immunity from attack...err...I mean, I'm too lazy to come up with a new map. Even if we still have over a week until Stas returns and makes the global map. Yeah. That's it."
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."
Speaking of maps, if anyone spots a decent sized map image of South East Asia which DOESN’T have shitloads of writing all over it, I’d be much obliged if they’d point me towards it. I’ve been looking on and off for weeks now, and I can’t find jack crap that suitable. Hell even in my books I can find something worth scanning….
As for the island nations, how about we squeeze all the ones that really want to be that way into a narrow waterway almost totally encircled (only exit to the open ocean being 20-30 miles wide) by Shepistan and Japanistan? That I’ll teach them. Between the huge masses of pollution drifting over and the suicide gliders they’ll be begging for land boarders in no time.
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
Sea Skimmer wrote:
As for the island nations, how about we squeeze all the ones that really want to be that way into a narrow waterway almost totally encircled (only exit to the open ocean being 20-30 miles wide) by Shepistan and Japanistan? That I’ll teach them. Between the huge masses of pollution drifting over and the suicide gliders they’ll be begging for land boarders in no time.
Well, people like Phong are basically BROADCASTING that the reason why they want to be an Island nation is to afford themselves a degree of immunity. In other words, "Hey I'm an Island and i have an impenetrable air defense network."
So yeah, I'd support sticking 'em in a inland sea between Shepistan and Japanistan, if that's the route they want to go.
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."
Lonestar wrote:You know what? I really dislike all these choads(to include RI) who want to be Island nations.
Er, in my case its so I can be have it run on semiautomatic if needed and not make everyone else have to worry about what I do on land. Put me as an island and if I have to go away for awhile and everyone can easily ignore me. The military structure was then made for that.
That said, putting me and Stas right next to each other would be hillarity and make me have a rather different OOB.
Lonestar wrote:"Hurr hurr I want a degree of immunity from attack...err...I mean, I'm too lazy to come up with a new map. Even if we still have over a week until Stas returns and makes the global map. Yeah. That's it."
We don't even have a world map! How the hell am I supposed to figure out where I am?
Lonestar wrote:Well, people like Phong are basically BROADCASTING that the reason why they want to be an Island nation is to afford themselves a degree of immunity. In other words, "Hey I'm an Island and i have an impenetrable air defense network."
That significantly changes if I end up a land-based power. It's just one draft I have; I have other OOBs ready.
Last edited by phongn on 2008-08-07 07:55pm, edited 1 time in total.
Alternatively, if someone really wants to have the defensive mechanisms that come with being an Island nation, maybe the size(physical size) of the country should be chopped in half or something? I don't like the idea of Japanistan islands just kinda floating out there, Britain-size Islands would be more like it.
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."
Lonestar wrote:Alternatively, if someone really wants to have the defensive mechanisms that come with being an Island nation, maybe the size(physical size) of the country should be chopped in half or something? I don't like the idea of Japanistan islands just kinda floating out there, Britain-size Islands would be more like it.
I would certainly be willing to be something the size of the British Isles, actually, and was pondering IRTv2 being modeled on them.
Coiler wrote:Stop being a dick and bending the rules just to satisfy your fetish for WMDs.
Says the moron who adopted a policy in the last game that of course resulted in his nation being targeted by so many WMDs by everyone, that they ceased to exist 4 minutes after the balloon went up.
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong
"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
Lonestar wrote:Alternatively, if someone really wants to have the defensive mechanisms that come with being an Island nation, maybe the size(physical size) of the country should be chopped in half or something? I don't like the idea of Japanistan islands just kinda floating out there, Britain-size Islands would be more like it.
Well Japanistan is being modeled as the territory of Burma-Thailand-Vietnam- Peninsular Malaysia + the Island of Sumatra (which is still being brutalized into becoming a proper part of Japanistan) and a few minor islands. That gives me some areas which are pretty well defended by geography, but my potential land boarder is over 2,000 miles long and I’m fully expecting to be attached to a continent. Anything else would make the game a waste of time as far as I’m concerned.
Setzer wrote:I'm an island, but I'm like Cyprus, England or Sicily. I'm close to a continent, so it's not like I'm immune to attack.
Being ‘close’ is not good enough. The English channel is only 20 miles wide but it was enough to stop the strongest Army in Europe in 1940. This is an enormous advantage that people should not have. A couple islands would have been okay, but almost everyone wants one, thats not happening, and if we can't get some people to go over then maybe just no one should get one , you at best get a very narrow neck of land as a barrier.
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
Well, if you take a look at the western part of my nation, you'll see there isn't much of anything west of the mountains. That can be my land border. I can do a bit of redrawing to show the border with whoever I'm sharing it with. I wasn't expecting this many people to play islands, so I'll change my stuff to show willing. There's a pass through the mountains, as well as several smaller ones for foot traffic and animals. It's a good defensive barrier, but hardly invincible.
Last edited by Setzer on 2008-08-07 08:32pm, edited 1 time in total.
For the record, I very specifically want Canissia to be a continental power. I'll even accept a Spain-sized country that requires me to do a new map, because I realized that the topography I designed is for an island. I'd love to have integrated terrain features with another country to spice things up.
Something about Libertarianism always bothered me. Then one day, I realized what it was:
Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."
In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around! If all you want to do is have some harmless, mindless fun, go H3RE INST3ADZ0RZ!! Grrr! Fight my Brute, you pansy!
So far as I know, only me, phong, and Setzer are doing island nations (and Setzer seems ready to change). Maybe Wilkens, if he decides to play.
That's...four. The vast majority of people I've seen have some continent thing going on.
"How can I wait unknowing?
This is the price of war,
We rise with noble intentions,
And we risk all that is pure..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, Forever (Rome: Total War)
"On and on, through the years,
The war continues on..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, We Are All One (Medieval 2: Total War)
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear." - Ambrose Redmoon
"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight
Yeah, I'm perfectly willing to change, if necessary. Part of my history involves a huge plague in the 7th century, but it was supposed to be confined to my island. If you want, I can change things, and we can write our own version of the Black Death into things...
I'm open to modifying my concept for a landlocked nation, but for right now I'm requesting an island.
“There are two kinds of people in the world: the kind who think it’s perfectly reasonable to strip-search a 13-year-old girl suspected of bringing ibuprofen to school, and the kind who think those people should be kept as far away from children as possible … Sometimes it’s hard to tell the difference between drug warriors and child molesters.” - Jacob Sullum[/size][/align]
Speaking of Ships, how much would a Modernized Yamato or Iowa ship cost me? IE modern fire control, Targeting drones, but built around 16inch guns to 18 inch guns? These would be thirty five to forty five year old ships at this point in the game if I got them to keep them making sense.
"A cult is a religion with no political power." -Tom Wolfe Pardon me for sounding like a dick, but I'm playing the tiniest violin in the world right now-Dalton
Setzer wrote:Yeah, I'm perfectly willing to change, if necessary. Part of my history involves a huge plague in the 7th century, but it was supposed to be confined to my island. If you want, I can change things, and we can write our own version of the Black Death into things...
How about a peninsular nation, like Thailand? Or one connected by a pair of narrow isthmus, Panama-like?
Something about Libertarianism always bothered me. Then one day, I realized what it was:
Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."
In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around! If all you want to do is have some harmless, mindless fun, go H3RE INST3ADZ0RZ!! Grrr! Fight my Brute, you pansy!
I'm still sticking with my island - but it will be, like, Britain-sized or something. Maybe a bit bigger than Britain, but I'm not gonna be anything else than a Britain/UK.
I'm not too keen on military dickishness, so no - you won't see me exploiting my position for my own dickish ends. You've seen me play the last time, you all saw how I was the last person who wanted to go into armed conflict with the big boys. You all know I'm just content to go around making money, and dicking around with stupid characters with stupid names (alliterations!) doing stupid things
"DO YOU WORSHIP HOMOSEXUALS?" - Curtis Saxton (source) shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN! Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people - PeZook Shroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic Pink Sugar Heart Attack!
The ambivalence with islands, is that some have been known to be isolationist dicks, who run around making trouble, and then erect an "invincible" defence just to facillitate more nonsense.
STGOD: Byzantine Empire Your spirit, diseased as it is, refuses to allow you to give up, no matter what threats you face... and whatever wreckage you leave behind you.
Kreia
Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:The ambivalence with islands, is that some have been known to be isolationist dicks, who run around making trouble, and then erect an "invincible" defence just to facillitate more nonsense.
They're still vulnerable to blockades and supersupersonic cruise missile spam. And with upped capabilities for Duchies and Principalities, alliances can now fuck such people up just fine.
JULY 20TH 1969 - The day the entire world was looking up
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth. I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth. I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small. - NEIL ARMSTRONG, MISSION COMMANDER, APOLLO 11
Signature dedicated to the greatest achievement of mankind.
MILDLY DERANGED PHYSICIST does not mind BREAKING the SOUND BARRIER, because it is INSURED. - Simon_Jester considering the problems of hypersonic flight for Team L.A.M.E.
Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:The ambivalence with islands, is that some have been known to be isolationist dicks, who run around making trouble, and then erect an "invincible" defence just to facillitate more nonsense.
They're still vulnerable to blockades and supersupersonic cruise missile spam. And with upped capabilities for Duchies and Principalities, alliances can now fuck such people up just fine.
Why yes of course, but in the case of phong, he has plenty of fighters and so forth, to retaliate with missile spam of his own. His military is designed for massive air retaliation.
STGOD: Byzantine Empire Your spirit, diseased as it is, refuses to allow you to give up, no matter what threats you face... and whatever wreckage you leave behind you.
Kreia
Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Why yes of course, but in the case of phong, he has plenty of fighters and so forth, to retaliate with missile spam of his own. His military is designed for massive air retaliation.
Not quite. Most of my air force for the island-OOB is oriented to defense of the Home Islands. The offensive forces are mostly assigned to my Navy, and normally only a third of it will be at an AO at any given time (I can surge to half the Navy, but that isn't free).
My land OOB is significantly different, with swarms of older aircraft backing an enormous "second-gen" army.
Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:
Why yes of course, but in the case of phong, he has plenty of fighters and so forth, to retaliate with missile spam of his own. His military is designed for massive air retaliation.
He's an Imperium, even if he was landlocked he'd be pretty dangerous. Just put him close to somebody, so that he can get messed up by land-based missiles (cheaper than aircraft = moar )
JULY 20TH 1969 - The day the entire world was looking up
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth. I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth. I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small. - NEIL ARMSTRONG, MISSION COMMANDER, APOLLO 11
Signature dedicated to the greatest achievement of mankind.
MILDLY DERANGED PHYSICIST does not mind BREAKING the SOUND BARRIER, because it is INSURED. - Simon_Jester considering the problems of hypersonic flight for Team L.A.M.E.
"
- PeZook
)