Yet More Police Brutality

[Gil Hamilton]

Do you realize that you just said that police shouldn't confront people that match the descriptions given by their complaintants? I agree about harassment, but not confronting him at all is ridiculous. If he matched the description it is perfectly reasonable to interview him, and see if the complaintant positively identifies him.

And what description was that? From the sound of it, the way that Zod met the "description" was he was grubby.

Did they give a reason for the initial stop? Were you even there? I'm not implying that racism doesn't exist in law enforcement. However, I've also seen many people play the race card when it wasn't a factor at all.

As a matter of fact, I have been twice. Both times they pulled him over in Squirrel Hill (a middle class to affluent where his family lives) and immediately asked for his license and registration, like it was a traffic stop, and then after he complied, they asked him where he was going at that time of night and let him go. They weren't exactly pleasant about it either time.

Who gave you this advice?

Our coordinator who took us to the conference from the university. She told us, basically, to avoid the New Orleans police at all costs unless we were pressingly in need of aid (such as in the process of being mugged), particularly around the part of New Orleans that most of us were staying in (near Canal Street, close to the French Quarter). The "prepare to the ground and cover your head" bit was from a conferencee who happened to be listening when she told us this, because they were well known for being very quick to go for their billy clubs around there.

[Death from the Sea]

I doubt it was "sooner" than I realized. They were already filling out the paperwork while I was in the car and clearly weren't interested in listening to anything I said, so telling them to breathalyze me or stop asking if I was drunk seemed perfectly reasonable. Sounded like they wanted me to admit it without bothering to test at the time.

I wasn't there so I can't say if you did for sure or not, but usually when people get frustrated they get an attitude, raise their voice or start cussing without realizing it. Even being handcuffed in the back of a police car does not equal arrest. Regardless you did get an attitude with the officers eventually, which did not help you any.

It's not as if he just flipped it off unprovoked. If some twat came up to me and told me I'd ran a red light while I was on a bicycle without a uniform or a badge I'd probably laugh in his face too. Considering all the alerts on the news about police imposters lately it's at least an understandable response.

Bicycles have to adhere to the same traffic laws as motor vehicles do, at least in my state, so running a red light is still an offense. It doesn't matter how petty you think it is, they guy on the bike was in the wrong at the start. There is a difference between laughing at someone and making unwanted physical contact.

[General Zod]

I wasn't there so I can't say if you did for sure or not, but usually when people get frustrated they get an attitude, raise their voice or start cussing without realizing it. Even being handcuffed in the back of a police car does not equal arrest. Regardless you did get an attitude with the officers eventually, which did not help you any.

Since the charges were dropped anyway because their case was so flimsy, the point is rather moot. All they had to go on was the douchebag manager pointing his finger.

Bicycles have to adhere to the same traffic laws as motor vehicles do, at least in my state, so running a red light is still an offense. It doesn't matter how petty you think it is, they guy on the bike was in the wrong at the start. There is a difference between laughing at someone and making unwanted physical contact.

On the other hand, very few people who aren't total psychopaths would start beating someone up and smash their face into the pavement for flipping off their hat. If the cop wanted to be taken seriously he should have shown his badge before saying anything.

[Keevan_Colton]

I'm not saying it's right, Gil, I'm saying it's how you avoid a beating and an arrest.

You dont perhaps see this as being an ass backwards approach to solving the problem?

It's more of an approach to not being a victim of the problem. Just like how avoiding the ghettoes isn't going to solve rampant crime in them, but it may keep you from becoming a statistic.

Similarly staying in the closet helps prevent hate crimes, but it should not be neccesary...

[Alyrium Denryle]

I'm not saying it's right, Gil, I'm saying it's how you avoid a beating and an arrest.

You dont perhaps see this as being an ass backwards approach to solving the problem?

You have to remember that the second they see the fact that Marina is still legally male, they will treat her like shit at every opportunity, and she is more likely to be victimized by them. best not to give them anything even remotely resembling an excuse.

[Keevan_Colton]

I'm not saying it's right, Gil, I'm saying it's how you avoid a beating and an arrest.

You dont perhaps see this as being an ass backwards approach to solving the problem?

You have to remember that the second they see the fact that Marina is still legally male, they will treat her like shit at every opportunity, and she is more likely to be victimized by them. best not to give them anything even remotely resembling an excuse.

Again, the problem is with the ignorant troglodyte given power. That is what should be dealt with, rather than coming up with ways to dance around it.

[Death from the Sea]

Do you realize that you just said that police shouldn't confront people that match the descriptions given by their complaintants? I agree about harassment, but not confronting him at all is ridiculous. If he matched the description it is perfectly reasonable to interview him, and see if the complaintant positively identifies him.

And what description was that? From the sound of it, the way that Zod met the "description" was he was grubby.

more the fact that the victim identified him as the suspect to the officers, I would say.

But it is common to stop people matching or close to the description given does that really sound unreasonable?

[Alyrium Denryle]

You dont perhaps see this as being an ass backwards approach to solving the problem?

You have to remember that the second they see the fact that Marina is still legally male, they will treat her like shit at every opportunity, and she is more likely to be victimized by them. best not to give them anything even remotely resembling an excuse.

Again, the problem is with the ignorant troglodyte given power. That is what should be dealt with, rather than coming up with ways to dance around it.

Long term... yeah. DUh. Short term, it is better to not be beaten, then tied to a fence post and left to die (in my case)

In her case, it is better to not be dehumanized, beaten, and possibly raped.

[General Zod]

more the fact that the victim identified him as the suspect to the officers, I would say.

But it is common to stop people matching or close to the description given does that really sound unreasonable?

How is it possible to get an even remotely close match from across the street in low conditions, let alone in an area with heavy foot traffic?

[Death from the Sea]

Since the charges were dropped anyway because their case was so flimsy, the point is rather moot. All they had to go on was the douchebag manager pointing his finger.

true, but it seems you got mad at the officer for doing his job and not so much the victim for incorrectly identifying you.

On the other hand, very few people who aren't total psychopaths would start beating someone up and smash their face into the pavement for flipping off their hat.

too true, a simply getting your hat flipped off your head does not require an epic ass beating as a response. But you have to agree it was not a smart move on his part, think about if it had been some hardcore gang banger or other kind of criminal that he did that to. What do you think their response would be? I have worked stabbings and shootings that started over less than that.

If the cop wanted to be taken seriously he should have shown his badge before saying anything.

I agree and if he didn't then that is another factor in the guy's favor.

[Kamakazie Sith]

more the fact that the victim identified him as the suspect to the officers, I would say.

But it is common to stop people matching or close to the description given does that really sound unreasonable?

How is it possible to get an even remotely close match from across the street in low conditions, let alone in an area with heavy foot traffic?

We weren't there. Maybe he could see you better than you could see him.

[General Zod]

true, but it seems you got mad at the officer for doing his job and not so much the victim for incorrectly identifying you.

Like I mentioned before, I was equally pissed at both.

[Kamakazie Sith]

And what description was that? From the sound of it, the way that Zod met the "description" was he was grubby.

Well, I wasn't there so I don't know. However, I would guess that at the very least it was "a male transient" since they stopped him. Transients can be described as grubby, FYI. The officers started making mistakes when they continued to ask the same question over and over and over, and then made an arrest based off no actual evidence.

As a matter of fact, I have been twice. Both times they pulled him over in Squirrel Hill (a middle class to affluent where his family lives) and immediately asked for his license and registration, like it was a traffic stop, and then after he complied, they asked him where he was going at that time of night and let him go. They weren't exactly pleasant about it either time.

So, they did not inform him as to the reason why they stopped him? There's also the possibility that there were other factors involved in the stop, but you assume that it is because he's black. Maybe it is, but you hardly have enough information to make that conclusion.

Who gave you this advice?

Our coordinator who took us to the conference from the university. She told us, basically, to avoid the New Orleans police at all costs unless we were pressingly in need of aid (such as in the process of being mugged), particularly around the part of New Orleans that most of us were staying in (near Canal Street, close to the French Quarter). The "prepare to the ground and cover your head" bit was from a conferencee who happened to be listening when she told us this, because they were well known for being very quick to go for their billy clubs around there.[/quote]

Interesting. You know they have a problem when conference coordinators are giving advice on avoiding the police and what to do if you encounter some.

[White Haven]

So, from Zod's description, the tactics of the police officers in that situation were to deliberately antagonize him (asking the same question over and over again), and then act offended when antagonistic behavior produced a hostile attitude. What, police don't run into enough angry people on a daily basis, they have to go out of their way to manufacture more?

[General Zod]

So, from Zod's description, the tactics of the police officers in that situation were to deliberately antagonize him (asking the same question over and over again), and then act offended when antagonistic behavior produced a hostile attitude. What, police don't run into enough angry people on a daily basis, they have to go out of their way to manufacture more?

Considering how the cops in the OP behave, that sounds how most corrupt cops act. What else are they going to do all day? Their job? Psht.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Anyway, I'm enormously good at obesience and submissive flattery, knowing just the right forms for the right situations, and I don't like wasting talents, particularly when they can keep my teeth and my skull intact. It's all an act, of course; I'd be fantasizing about things best not repeated here while it happened, but I'm really, really good at that act. And have plenty of experience. It works, too, I've never been arrested, let alone charged, a single time in my life, and only handcuffed once.

[Darth Wong]

It's not as if he just flipped it off unprovoked. If some twat came up to me and told me I'd ran a red light while I was on a bicycle without a uniform or a badge I'd probably laugh in his face too. Considering all the alerts on the news about police imposters lately it's at least an understandable response.

It's illegal to run a red light no matter what kind of vehicle you're on, moron. And fucking cyclists who think they can ignore traffic laws are a serious problem; I have come close to killing some of these ignorant twats on numerous occasions, as they attempt to fly through stop signs or red lights.

If you think that it's not a real crime to run a red light while on a bicycle, or that you can laugh in the face of any cop who says otherwise, I'd say that hell yes, you fit the textbook definition of "copping an attitude".

[General Zod]

If you think that it's not a real crime to run a red light while on a bicycle, or that you can laugh in the face of any cop who says otherwise, I'd say that hell yes, you fit the textbook definition of "copping an attitude".

If they're obviously a cop then yeah, it's stupid to laugh in their face about it. But you can't exactly tell they're a cop when they're undercover like the ones in the article.

[Eulogy]

Anyway, I'm enormously good at obesience and submissive flattery, knowing just the right forms for the right situations, and I don't like wasting talents, particularly when they can keep my teeth and my skull intact. It's all an act, of course; I'd be fantasizing about things best not repeated here while it happened, but I'm really, really good at that act. And have plenty of experience. It works, too, I've never been arrested, let alone charged, a single time in my life, and only handcuffed once.

Your story is nice, but what about those of us who don't have a high rank in Persuade?

[Shroom Man 777]

It might seem like that, but you're taking your sample from one side of the media.

Here's the other side of the coin. Calm Trooper

I wonder how they can record the conversation like that. The camera is inside the car... but how about the microphone? I mean, there's some distance between the car and the cop and the perp, and with the surrounding noise... those must be good tape recorders or something.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Anyway, I'm enormously good at obesience and submissive flattery, knowing just the right forms for the right situations, and I don't like wasting talents, particularly when they can keep my teeth and my skull intact. It's all an act, of course; I'd be fantasizing about things best not repeated here while it happened, but I'm really, really good at that act. And have plenty of experience. It works, too, I've never been arrested, let alone charged, a single time in my life, and only handcuffed once.

Your story is nice, but what about those of us who don't have a high rank in Persuade?

Follow these simple steps to avoid getting in trouble with cops.

[Darth Wong]

If you think that it's not a real crime to run a red light while on a bicycle, or that you can laugh in the face of any cop who says otherwise, I'd say that hell yes, you fit the textbook definition of "copping an attitude".

If they're obviously a cop then yeah, it's stupid to laugh in their face about it. But you can't exactly tell they're a cop when they're undercover like the ones in the article.

That's a nice backpedal, but you deliberately emphasized the "on a bicycle" part in your post. You clearly thought it was completely absurd to be stopped for running a red light while on a bicycle, as if it was somehow more acceptable than doing it in a car.

[General Zod]

That's a nice backpedal, but you deliberately emphasized the "on a bicycle" part in your post. You clearly thought it was completely absurd to be stopped for running a red light while on a bicycle, as if it was somehow more acceptable than doing it in a car.

I'm not sure how it's much different from Jaywalking. Since the person that risks getting fucked up the most is the person on the bike as opposed to anyone in a car, which is why it doesn't seem as big of a deal to me. Though I guess I can see how it'd be stupid with a decent volume of traffic on the road.

[CaptainChewbacca]

That's a nice backpedal, but you deliberately emphasized the "on a bicycle" part in your post. You clearly thought it was completely absurd to be stopped for running a red light while on a bicycle, as if it was somehow more acceptable than doing it in a car.

I'm not sure how it's much different from Jaywalking. Since the person that risks getting fucked up the most is the person on the bike as opposed to anyone in a car, which is why it doesn't seem as big of a deal to me. Though I guess I can see how it'd be stupid with a decent volume of traffic on the road.

Its quite different than Jaywalking; you're running a red light. Its not just a risk to you, what about the poor bastard who has to live with the fact that he killed some moron who ran a red light on a bike? He's screwed up for life.

[General Zod]

Its quite different than Jaywalking; you're running a red light. Its not just a risk to you, what about the poor bastard who has to live with the fact that he killed some moron who ran a red light on a bike? He's screwed up for life.

Even on a road where there's obviously no traffic coming in either direction for quite a bit of time? At least enough to safely get across the street?