Anti-Intellectualism article

[Alyrium Denryle]

It is certainly more prevalent in the US because of those factors. On their own, they can be less effective and countered by strong education or leadership or policies. Combine those otherwise lowest common denominator factors, and you've got what is one potent superpower toppling mix.

Why else is the US falling so fast compared to other empires? Jingoists who waste their wealth and resources in the name of sky pixies and wishful thinking will not a legacy of good renown make.

There is a reason why I want to get my Ph.D before american universities collapse and get the hell out....

Why would they collapse? A number of Universities make enormous profits every year.

Not financial collapse. Institutional collapse. Loss of reputation, ineffectiveness at teaching, lack of research funding etc.

[Block]

There is a reason why I want to get my Ph.D before american universities collapse and get the hell out....

Why would they collapse? A number of Universities make enormous profits every year.

Not financial collapse. Institutional collapse. Loss of reputation, ineffectiveness at teaching, lack of research funding etc.

You honestly think that's coming? aaaand if it does, what good would having a Ph.D. do? I'm not trying to make a point, I'm genuinely curious.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Why would they collapse? A number of Universities make enormous profits every year.

Not financial collapse. Institutional collapse. Loss of reputation, ineffectiveness at teaching, lack of research funding etc.

You honestly think that's coming? aaaand if it does, what good would having a Ph.D. do? I'm not trying to make a point, I'm genuinely curious.

I am seeing a bit of a backslide. Science education has come under attack at the university level as well as K-12. "Academic freedom" laws, things of that nature. Plus, with science education going down the shitter in high schools, there is going to be a dropoff in the quality and number of science students. It will take a while for the effects to be seen, but it is happening. Maybe a new administration ill reverse the last decade. But I doubt it.

[Block]

Well, couldn't that simply be because of the NCLB act restricting what's being taught since you need to teach to the test for most of the year? If that's repealed, which it more than likely will be, wouldn't that help greatly since more advanced students will be allowed to explore their gifts a bit more like they were in the 90s?

[Alyrium Denryle]

Well, couldn't that simply be because of the NCLB act restricting what's being taught since you need to teach to the test for most of the year? If that's repealed, which it more than likely will be, wouldn't that help greatly since more advanced students will be allowed to explore their gifts a bit more like they were in the 90s?

Have you not been keeping up with certain groups trying to infiltrate our schools with creationism? Science education has been circling the drain for decades. Science is not subject to NCLB last I checked, it is not covered on state exams.

Have you taken a science class lately? When I was in HS, right after Wonderchimp took office, I had to take college equiv courses to get anything out of them that was meaningful, and then only because I studied obsessively outside of class.

It is bloody ridiculous.

[Block]

Well, couldn't that simply be because of the NCLB act restricting what's being taught since you need to teach to the test for most of the year? If that's repealed, which it more than likely will be, wouldn't that help greatly since more advanced students will be allowed to explore their gifts a bit more like they were in the 90s?

Have you not been keeping up with certain groups trying to infiltrate our schools with creationism? Science education has been circling the drain for decades. Science is not subject to NCLB last I checked, it is not covered on state exams.

Have you taken a science class lately? When I was in HS, right after Wonderchimp took office, I had to take college equiv courses to get anything out of them that was meaningful, and then only because I studied obsessively outside of class.

It is bloody ridiculous.

No, I haven't had to take one since 2000 and that was in college, so probably a bit more in depth than a HS one, so honestly I'm not certain what the state of current HS science classes is. I know that people have been trying to get creationism back into science classes since the Scopes trial, but have failed to do so. I do remember science being on a maryland state test, but that was fairly basic stuff. It may not be on the NCLB test, I thought it was, but I don't know, high school education isn't one of my strong points. I just wonder if the more regimented structure of classes in general that was instituted by that act isn't affecting how all subjects are taught.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Part of the problem with science is that it is not structured enough. State standards are vague, evolution, which is the cornerstone of biology is glossed over and not mentioned again... things of that nature. Physics is hampered by the shitty math education, chemistry is seen as a burden. Part of the problem would be fixed if we didnt throw everyone into the same school, have Math and Science schools for example that are public, a tiered system like Europe. Stuff like that

[ray245]

One main arguement coming from the anti-intellectualism crowd in singapore...is that by having too much focus on academic study, it will create a generation of people that lack creativity.

Which is why people is starting to get unhappy with singapore lack of achievement in other areas...for example, entertainment industry and sports.

Can such a argument stand? That having too much focus on academic study itself ensure a lack of creativity?

[Sarevok]

One main arguement coming from the anti-intellectualism crowd in singapore...is that by having too much focus on academic study, it will create a generation of people that lack creativity.

Which is why people is starting to get unhappy with singapore lack of achievement in other areas...for example, entertainment industry and sports.

Can such a argument stand? That having too much focus on academic study itself ensure a lack of creativity?

Well you could respond by asking how is academics and creativity mutually exclusive ?

[SWPIGWANG]

Probably time....

youth can learn sports, academics or performance arts, but probably not all three at once.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Sports is the thing that really needs to be slashed. We've been hearing forever how its necessary to keep kids thin, but its total bullshit to emphasize COMPETITIVE TEAM SPORTS that CUT kids for that, and especially when decades of American sports worship has done nothing to curb the advancement of obesity. They'd be better off teaching kids how to lift weights and work out and follow a work out plan, and how to cut for themselves. And that doesn't require as much time and property and resources as team sports, to say nothing of paying a coach who gets more than the physics teacher.

[Edi]

One of the things that is already happening is that research cooperation between the US in the fields of biology and medicine and other fields as well is lessening. You can thank your draconian border control laws for that. US customs may seize any electronic devices they wish at the border, rummage through the data in them and then return the devices if they feel like it and any data may be used by the government as it wishes.

Just guess how many people are willing to take the results of years of work, much of it confidential and risk having it confiscated and then used or given to anyone some official feels like? Nevermind the harassment of scientists, medical professionals or others coming to the US on work trips arranged long beforehand. I don't do research for a living, but I have friends who do (Kaljamaha from the SDnet members, for example) and there are few good words to be had for current US policies that were basically put in place when Bush came into office.

Good luck rebuilding that trust in anything resembling a reasonable timeframe. Ain't happening.

[sketerpot]

Ray, what you're describing is called the Eternal September: as a forum becomes more popular, unless it has some kind of protection, it will be overrun with idiots. Let's look at a forum lifecycle:

1. The forum starts off small, and the first users are smart, well-educated types. Enjoy it while it lasts.

2. The place starts to get bigger. The general level of discourse starts to fall as more mainstream people start posting.

3. 9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB WAKE UP SHEEPLE!! UR OPPRESING THE CREATIONISTS!! RESPECT MY OPINIONS!!!!

4. The smart people leave and things collapse entirely into hell. If anybody says anything intelligent, someone else will reply with "lol fag nerd" and that will be the end of that.

This doesn't mean that anti-intellectualism is caused by free speech. It means that there's a huge amount of anti-intellectualism already out there, and unless you avoid the average idiots you will be swamped with it.

[Junghalli]

Stated succinctly, I feel the issue of the middle class is this: you can be ignorant and still expect an excellent standard of living. In the past, if you were ignorant, you could only get a job designed for ignorant people that really didn't get you much in the way of material wealth. I'm sure the ignorant people grumbled about the intellectual elite back in the day, but with it came, I feel, an inherent desire to improve one's station through education, or, failing that, vault one's children into the world of the intelligentsia, so that they could reap its benefits. In other words, ignorant people didn't like smart people, but they realized that education was the vector by which they could attain a better life.

I don't know, go back more than a few centuries or so and you're talking about variants of the feudal system being the typical type of government on the planet, and I'm sure in such systems you had no shortage of idiots who were pretty much set for life with an excellent standard of living (by the standards of the time) and power of life and death over thousands just because they came out of the right pussy. Likewise, if you were a peasant you were probably going to stay one no matter what you did.

Of course, this is probably a good part of the reason humanity made so little progress between around 3000 BC and 1800 AD

[Pulp Hero]

Sports is the thing that really needs to be slashed. We've been hearing forever how its necessary to keep kids thin, but its total bullshit to emphasize COMPETITIVE TEAM SPORTS that CUT kids for that, and especially when decades of American sports worship has done nothing to curb the advancement of obesity. They'd be better off teaching kids how to lift weights and work out and follow a work out plan, and how to cut for themselves. And that doesn't require as much time and property and resources as team sports, to say nothing of paying a coach who gets more than the physics teacher.

Agree. I think the problem is that PE classes are not mandatory, while sports teams, which are idolized, are extra-curricular.

This leads to the athletic people going out for extra curricular sports and the fatties to just not care.

A good system, I think is something along the lines of mandatory PE that starts with everyone getting a BMI check and an initial run/ pushup/ situp/ pullup test. After that, everyone who is at the "A" level has to maintain, everyone else has to make incremental improvements (so for example, someone who is very overweight will not fail or be graded poorly so long as they make positive improvement.) This, along with revamping school cafeterias, I think would encourage people to be healthier.

[Gil Hamilton]

There has always somewhat been a contempt for innovation replacing the strength of the common man in American culture.

Take for example the folk story/song of John Henry (which I just listened to a great rendition of in the car today).

The story of John Henry, for those who aren't familiar, is about a railway worker who is known far and wide for how well he can drive steel for installing rails in the frontier. No one is better than him at it and they say you have hear him striking flames with his hammer for miles around.

Then while making a railroad over some mountains the foreman of his group brings in a steam engine that drives rail spikes. Depending on which version you hear, the captain either challenges John that his new jenny will make steel men a thing of the past or John bets he can drive steel better than any machine.

So John Henry and the steam jenny race across the mountains driving spikes and the engine ends up breaking down and Henry keeps going. However, the effort is so much that John Henry completes his length and then dies of a heart attack, at which point his wife picks up his hammer and starts driving steel in his place.

The point of the story, of course, is the strength of the common man can never be overcome by machines or innovation. Such has always been part of American culture, that the Common Man is played up and good ole fashioned hard work can beat any book learning.

[Pulp Hero]

Of course the story also has a message of personal strength and perseverance to the length of death. That bit gets pushed aside.

[Pulp Hero]

ADDTION: It gets pushed aside by the retarded "gimmie" culture, not your post.

[Block]

Sports is the thing that really needs to be slashed. We've been hearing forever how its necessary to keep kids thin, but its total bullshit to emphasize COMPETITIVE TEAM SPORTS that CUT kids for that, and especially when decades of American sports worship has done nothing to curb the advancement of obesity. They'd be better off teaching kids how to lift weights and work out and follow a work out plan, and how to cut for themselves. And that doesn't require as much time and property and resources as team sports, to say nothing of paying a coach who gets more than the physics teacher.

Sports pretty much pays for itself at all but the middle school level at this point. Slashing it won't do anything except send more kids directly home after school.

[Pulp Hero]

Sports is the thing that really needs to be slashed. We've been hearing forever how its necessary to keep kids thin, but its total bullshit to emphasize COMPETITIVE TEAM SPORTS that CUT kids for that, and especially when decades of American sports worship has done nothing to curb the advancement of obesity. They'd be better off teaching kids how to lift weights and work out and follow a work out plan, and how to cut for themselves. And that doesn't require as much time and property and resources as team sports, to say nothing of paying a coach who gets more than the physics teacher.

Sports pretty much pays for itself at all but the middle school level at this point. Slashing it won't do anything except send more kids directly home after school.

The point is though, that almost all of the sports focus in schools (MS/HS) is COMPETITIVE, with little actual required PE. This leads to the out of shape/non-sports talented kids receiving little exercise education because they can't make the teams in first place.

[Illuminatus Primus]

The atheletically inclined should be making room for this in private recreational and sports clubs; there's no justifiable cause to have it associated and sapping money from public education.

[Coyote]

A good system, I think is something along the lines of mandatory PE that starts with everyone getting a BMI check and an initial run/ pushup/ situp/ pullup test. After that, everyone who is at the "A" level has to maintain, everyone else has to make incremental improvements (so for example, someone who is very overweight will not fail or be graded poorly so long as they make positive improvement.) This, along with revamping school cafeterias, I think would encourage people to be healthier.

I think this is the best way to do it, make physical education about improvement or maintaining, and set clear goals and ways to reach those goals. As I know it, PE was just more about tossing a bunch of mismatched kids together to do some calisthenics and some sports-- which the athletic kids will dominate, and the less-athletic kids will either be sidelined or at times subject to ridicule-- which does not exactly encourage them.

PE was really just like an extra recess for some kids, and an hour of discomfort for others who had no idea why they had to waste an hour a day.

[Adrian Laguna]

Take for example the folk story/song of John Henry (which I just listened to a great rendition of in the car today).

The point of the story, of course, is the strength of the common man can never be overcome by machines or innovation. Such has always been part of American culture, that the Common Man is played up and good ole fashioned hard work can beat any book learning.

That's funny, in the versions I've heard, Henry loses.

There is a similar one, but with a lumberjack. I think his name is Paul Bunyan, some version also include a bull or ox as a side-kick. He competes with a machine that can cut trees faster than Bunyan and haul them away faster than his bull.

[Darth Wong]

If you want to invoke pop culture, I would suggest the Forrest Gump Effect, where intelligence and goodness of heart are assumed to be inversely proportional.

Watch movies; retards in movies are always simple-minded but good-hearted. Compare that to retards in real-life, who are generally assholes who routinely do inconsiderate or harmful things because they don't know any better.

[Alyrium Denryle]

If you want to invoke pop culture, I would suggest the Forrest Gump Effect, where intelligence and goodness of heart are assumed to be inversely proportional.

Watch movies; retards in movies are always simple-minded but good-hearted. Compare that to retards in real-life, who are generally assholes who routinely do inconsiderate or harmful things because they don't know any better.

Lets be fair, Gump was not retarded. He was 5 IQ points too high for that.. Poor guy. To smart to be a retard, and too dumb for his mom to avoid sleeping with the principle to get him into school.

On the other hand, this quite irritated the shit out of me, and I think it was intended as social commentary

"After only four years of playing football, I got a college degree"

yeah, and I bet your GPA was exactly 2.0....