Gainesville FL Full of Troglodytes (Gender Identity Rights)

[Alyrium Denryle]

Wow... I got ahead of myself with that sentence...should have been

" I refuse to work in an environment where I have to stand by while, for example, people make homophobic slurs about me what are not good-faith-ribbing"

Much better

[Metatwaddle]

I really don't feel like putting up with this crap when I get out of school; frankly, it horrifies me how much I have to listen to in school, in a college town in a supposedly blue state. The people I worked with this summer - both the people in the lobbying group and the people at the nearby humanist organization - were as enlightened as they come, and that's one of the things that made me consider doing nonprofit work with other liberal atheists after I finish school.

[chitoryu12]

So far, Lake Mary has done a good job of staying normal. We've gotten to the point where gay men can use the women's room. Considering all the shit with Florida, that's a pretty good track record.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

So far, Lake Mary has done a good job of staying normal. We've gotten to the point where gay men can use the women's room. Considering all the shit with Florida, that's a pretty good track record.

...Do you realize what you just said? That's the most offensive, transphobic thing I've heard on this board in my entire time posting here.

[Alyrium Denryle]

So far, Lake Mary has done a good job of staying normal. We've gotten to the point where gay men can use the women's room. Considering all the shit with Florida, that's a pretty good track record.

...Do you realize what you just said? That's the most offensive, transphobic thing I've heard on this board in my entire time posting here.

I am pretty sure I have a picture of a trogolodyte somewhere...

[The Duchess of Zeon]

So far, Lake Mary has done a good job of staying normal. We've gotten to the point where gay men can use the women's room. Considering all the shit with Florida, that's a pretty good track record.

...Do you realize what you just said? That's the most offensive, transphobic thing I've heard on this board in my entire time posting here.

I am pretty sure I have a picture of a trogolodyte somewhere...

I'm just surprised you're not already eating his entrails over this. The dumbfuck better have a goddamned good explanation.

[Alyrium Denryle]

...Do you realize what you just said? That's the most offensive, transphobic thing I've heard on this board in my entire time posting here.

I am pretty sure I have a picture of a trogolodyte somewhere...

I'm just surprised you're not already eating his entrails over this. The dumbfuck better have a goddamned good explanation.

Oh, I am getting out the kitchen ware and getting ready to make a certain scottish dish...

[Rye]

So far, Lake Mary has done a good job of staying normal. We've gotten to the point where gay men can use the women's room. Considering all the shit with Florida, that's a pretty good track record.

Lolwat? Gay men aren't women by any stretch, why are they using the women's room?

Furthermore, how are republicans going to proposition them if they're in the ladies' room?

[Broomstick]

They're hiding from the Republicans in the ladies room!

[chitoryu12]

So far, Lake Mary has done a good job of staying normal. We've gotten to the point where gay men can use the women's room. Considering all the shit with Florida, that's a pretty good track record.

...Do you realize what you just said? That's the most offensive, transphobic thing I've heard on this board in my entire time posting here.

My deepest apologies. I had no idea that was so offensive. Just for reference, exactly what was so bad about that? I'm a bit out of the loop on this one.

[Colonel Olrik]

So far, Lake Mary has done a good job of staying normal. We've gotten to the point where gay men can use the women's room. Considering all the shit with Florida, that's a pretty good track record.

...Do you realize what you just said? That's the most offensive, transphobic thing I've heard on this board in my entire time posting here.

My deepest apologies. I had no idea that was so offensive. Just for reference, exactly what was so bad about that? I'm a bit out of the loop on this one.

Are you really so fucking stupid you can't figure out the difference between gays and male to female transsexuals?

[Stuart]

My deepest apologies. I had no idea that was so offensive. Just for reference, exactly what was so bad about that? I'm a bit out of the loop on this one.

A M-F transexual is not gay. The people in question are women who for some as-present unknown reason got born in the wrong body. An MF-transexual is a female in everything except body appearance (which can now be corrected surgically). By requiring that a M-F transexual use male restroom facilities, the powers that be are effectively forcing a woman to use those facilities which results in acute embarrassment, humiliation etc. A gay man is not functionally a woman so the same problem does not arise.

To give you some idea of the severity of this problem, until very recently, M-F transexual criminal offenders were sent to male prisons whereupon they were usually raped to death. Compared with the level of discrimination that transexuals face every day, gay people have it very, very easy.

[chitoryu12]

My deepest apologies. I had no idea that was so offensive. Just for reference, exactly what was so bad about that? I'm a bit out of the loop on this one.

A M-F transexual is not gay. The people in question are women who for some as-present unknown reason got born in the wrong body. An MF-transexual is a female in everything except body appearance (which can now be corrected surgically). By requiring that a M-F transexual use male restroom facilities, the powers that be are effectively forcing a woman to use those facilities which results in acute embarrassment, humiliation etc. A gay man is not functionally a woman so the same problem does not arise.

To give you some idea of the severity of this problem, until very recently, M-F transexual criminal offenders were sent to male prisons whereupon they were usually raped to death. Compared with the level of discrimination that transexuals face every day, gay people have it very, very easy.

Huh. Generally, it seemed from my experiences (including one TV special on a female-male transsexual from Miami) that they were more similar to homosexuals. Thanks.

[CaptainChewbacca]

I believe many states STILL send MtF transsexuals to male prisons. New York comes to mind as one which does this. Of course, the poor woman can elect to be on 23-hour lockdown for her safety, but that's hardly a 'good' choice.

[Rye]

The Louis Theroux documentary on San Quentin showed a bizarre almost elevated status for transsexuals. They were usually housed in a "protected" area of the prison and from what I gathered, the prisoners that would end up in relationships with them were widely envied. Honestly, it wasn't what I was expecting.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

I expect an apology from Chitoryu to drop this issue, acknowledging that what he said to me was on the same level as calling a Jewish person a pig.



Me--a Woman.




Someone Else--a Man.

I assure you that learning the difference will come in handy in the future. For example, if you learn how to tell the difference in the future, you will not get the shit beaten out of you by a Harley rider who weighs 300lbs and is 6'4" in a bar in the future when you call him a woman. Or when you call his 5', 100lb long-haired and full breasted girlfriend a man, for that matter. That said, we really don't want you to breed. After all, this difference was mentally internalized by our trogolodyte ancestors several hundred million years ago, but it seems evolution just left you on the side of the road.

[Broomstick]

I believe many states STILL send MtF transsexuals to male prisons. New York comes to mind as one which does this. Of course, the poor woman can elect to be on 23-hour lockdown for her safety, but that's hardly a 'good' choice.

I've been asking about this with prison workers I know (and boy do I get some strange looks from the question!). Many haven't a clue about the legal situation, but the one doctor I know who works extensively in the Wisconsin system was quite clear that in his state a MtF transsexual who had completed trans surgery would be housed with the women. Those who had not completed surgical transition would (apparently based on a possession of a penis) be sent to a male prison but would be among the "protected" prisoners - the homosexuals, disabled, elderly, etc. This is not 23 hour a day isolation, and certainly such prisoners are permitted visitors, communication with the outside world, etc. It's not punitive solitary. While I agree it's not an ideal situation, it would seem preferable to being "raped to death" or forced to become someone's sex toy for self preservation. It is also more enlightened than what would have occurred in the past. I also hasten to add that that is the formal state penal system - what happens in town lockups is anyone's guess, and probably ranges from humane accommodation to absolute nightmare.

Still, any transsexual would be well advised to avoid the sort of legal problems that lead to incarceration of any sort, even more so than the norm.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

My general plan is to never get sent to prison. In Washington State, it would be survivable; there are some other states where I still expect the treatment would be bad enough that suicide would be the only real course of action.

At any rate, the correct scientific terminology is XY female or in full XY sex-inversed female, and I assure you that by the time I'm done there will be no way to tell short of a karyotype. So unless you have a blood sample and a chemistry lab there's really no discernable difference between XX-normative females and me.

I'd further add that the classification is as dumb as fuck (that's putting it politely) because I'm bisexual anyway. (Quite happily so--I couldn't be a degenerate noblewoman without some sensuous depravity!)

[CaptainChewbacca]

Marina, when you are finished with your transition and get your paperwork squared away, will you have always been a woman under law (i.e. your birth cirtificate has your current name and gender), or is a line entered into a file somewhere that reads 'Legally female on XXXX date.'?

[Lord Pounder]

My deepest apologies. I had no idea that was so offensive. Just for reference, exactly what was so bad about that? I'm a bit out of the loop on this one.

A M-F transexual is not gay. The people in question are women who for some as-present unknown reason got born in the wrong body. An MF-transexual is a female in everything except body appearance (which can now be corrected surgically). By requiring that a M-F transexual use male restroom facilities, the powers that be are effectively forcing a woman to use those facilities which results in acute embarrassment, humiliation etc. A gay man is not functionally a woman so the same problem does not arise.

To give you some idea of the severity of this problem, until very recently, M-F transexual criminal offenders were sent to male prisons whereupon they were usually raped to death. Compared with the level of discrimination that transexuals face every day, gay people have it very, very easy.

Huh. Generally, it seemed from my experiences (including one TV special on a female-male transsexual from Miami) that they were more similar to homosexuals. Thanks.

Well fuck a whole TV Special? I guess that makes you a fucking expert. Really kid read over again the comments Marina and other have posted.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Marina, when you are finished with your transition and get your paperwork squared away, will you have always been a woman under law (i.e. your birth cirtificate has your current name and gender), or is a line entered into a file somewhere that reads 'Legally female on XXXX date.'?

Always. The birth certificate will be changed to the appropriate designation, as will the social security records, the state driver's license records, and so on, and so on. All the college records already are. The only single record that would be a flag is the Selective Service registration, and I don't think those records are given out even under a fairly rigorous background check, and who would think to look for a woman anyway?

Note: This varies by state. The worst states are Tennessee, Ohio, Idaho, Texas, Kansas, and Oklahoma. In the first three, reissue of the birth certificate is not possible so you'd need to emigrate to a country where they can the immigration papers after you're a citizen and get an order for it done there. That means that, for instance, a friend of mine who was born in Ohio is going to have to leave the country and rescind her American citizenship to live a normal life, which is pretty goddamned harsh. Whereas since I was born and lived most of my life in Washington State, there will not be a single legal trace I was anything other than a girl named Marina Collette except for the SSA records.

[Broomstick]

The only single record that would be a flag is the Selective Service registration, and I don't think those records are given out even under a fairly rigorous background check, and who would think to look for a woman anyway?

Actually... the job I applied for with the Feds would probably trip that up. I'm not at liberty to discuss the details of the hiring process, but a truthful answer to a direct question at at least one point would have brought out your transsexual status. On the other hand, you are not obligated to apply for a job requiring a Federal background check and security clearance.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

The only single record that would be a flag is the Selective Service registration, and I don't think those records are given out even under a fairly rigorous background check, and who would think to look for a woman anyway?

Actually... the job I applied for with the Feds would probably trip that up. I'm not at liberty to discuss the details of the hiring process, but a truthful answer to a direct question at at least one point would have brought out your transsexual status. On the other hand, you are not obligated to apply for a job requiring a Federal background check and security clearance.

I suspect it asks for a list of prior names. Some corporations try to get away with that one, too, though legally they can't actually ask for it when you've had a legal name change, but they do anyway. This is one of the reasons I plan to emigrate--it's much easier to cut off a paper trail via a national border than any other method. If your passport and birth certificate are appropriate, they will be used as the basis of all future records in the new country of citizenship.

[Broomstick]

Um.... no. While they do ask for prior names, that wasn't what I was thinking of when I made that statement.

As it is the Feds and it is a position that is considered to affect national security yes, they CAN ask for whatever the hell they want. It's not a corporation we're talking about but a government. On the other hand, they were very upfront about just how thorough this anal probing was going to be so if you have concerns along those lines you can stand up and walk away before you get that far.

And, as I said, you are not obligated to apply for a such a position.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

I'm doing one better, and just reinventing myself in another country.