Clinton playing games with Obama at DNC

[SirNitram]

Or Zeus.

[White Haven]

Or Zeus, for that matter. Something tells me that dude is now on Zeus's Lightning List, and that's a list with a bit more...weight behind it than most.

[CaptainChewbacca]

This is why I go to Thor for all my smiting needs. Easy to spell.

[Isolder74]

I spelled is wrong on purpose for the off chance it might actually exist.

[CaptainChewbacca]

I spelled is wrong on purpose for the off chance it might actually exist.

You spelled 'is' correctly, you spelled 'it' wrong.

Damn. I think you failed at failing there.

[Invictus ChiKen]

You should forward your list to Zues@Olympis.org.....

Perhaps your should mail them all metal spheres to place on their roofs?

What!? NO! Just no! for something like this you want Thor@Asgard.gov ... An CaptainChewbacca beat me to it but yeah at least his webmasters can spell.

[RedImperator]

Is there a reason this thread has suddenly turned into spam?

[xammer99]

Out of curiosity...

Why should anyone take Obama seriously as a leader/executive now that he's shown he can't control his own celebration party in Denver?

If he can't do something that has been a given "rah rah, sisk boom bah!" victory lap of the winning candidate for the last 50 some years, then how can he be expected to get his way with people who aren't tacitly on his side? Ala Republicans in Congress, the Iranians, the Norks, the Russians, etc...?

Seriously, this thing should be a freakin gimme, and yet she took his freakin coronation from him.

[Isolder74]

I'd say it's just another strick against Clinton ever running again. She still shows such a sense of entitlement that she is still not willing to admit that she has lost. Her behavior is just downright selfish. She can't seem to stand that someone else is in her limelight.

[Glocksman]

Out of curiosity...

Why should anyone take Obama seriously as a leader/executive now that he's shown he can't control his own celebration party in Denver?

If he can't do something that has been a given "rah rah, sisk boom bah!" victory lap of the winning candidate for the last 50 some years, then how can he be expected to get his way with people who aren't tacitly on his side? Ala Republicans in Congress, the Iranians, the Norks, the Russians, etc...?

Seriously, this thing should be a freakin gimme, and yet she took his freakin coronation from him.

A couple of things.

1. Party conventions have in the past have been contentious because of challengers unwilling to be a gracious loser. Notable among them include 1980's Democratic convention, 1968's Republican convention, and 1976's Republican convention.

So you're wrong when you state that they're merely a 'victory lap'.

2. 'coronation'?
Is there a reason why you're parroting the McCain meme about Obama being an arrogant elitist?
IIRC, this board isn't on the McCain campaign's lists, so you won't earn any McCain points here.

3. If you want proof of Obama's management skills, just look at how he unseated the 'inevitable' Hillary Clinton.
It's also interesting to compare the remarkable stability in his core campaign staff to the numerous shakeups and wholesale revamping McCain's campaign did before recently settling on Steve Schmidt and his merry crew of Rovian hacks.

Personally I'd much rather have President Obama deal with the people you mention than President McCain following through with his 'we're all Georgians now' bullshit and attacking Russia or doing something else equally stupid by writing checks the US can't cash.

Shit, even conservative Republican Senator Thad Cochran says that the idea of a McCain presidency scares him.

[Jaevric]

I'm not sure how you can hold Obama accountable for the fact Hillary Clinton is an egotistical bitch who would rather backstab her own party than admit she lost the election.

Honestly, what's Obama going to do to keep her or her supporters from putting her name up? Not let them into the building? I suppose promising Hillary the VP slot *might* have done it, but I'm not sure on that. Hillary (and many of her supporters) aren't rational people who are going to accept the "it's in the party's best interest..." argument. Hillary doesn't care about the Democratic Party, she cares about getting elected to the Presidency and the rest can go hang.

If you're in a classroom full of well-behaved students, and the teacher is a good teacher, do you blame the teacher for the ONE STUDENT who doesn't do his work, doesn't pay attention, and causes problems? Or do you blame the little brat? Personally, I vote for blaming the brat -- in this case, Clinton.

This is not, sadly, to say that some people won't wave this around as "proof" that Obama can't manage people.

[xammer99]

1. Party conventions have in the past have been contentious because of challengers unwilling to be a gracious loser. Notable among them include 1980's Democratic convention, 1968's Republican convention, and 1976's Republican convention.

My bad, 20 years off. Regardless, for the past 30 years conventions have been nothing more than coronation ceremonies for the primary victor.

And as the 3 examples you listed show... not a damn one worked at well for the contested. Which is why they aren't done anymore and why they have become a victory lap.

Nice try to turn it around though.

2. 'coronation'?
Is there a reason why you're parroting the McCain meme about Obama being an arrogant elitist?
IIRC, this board isn't on the McCain campaign's lists, so you won't earn any McCain points here.

Actually I'm not a fan of McCain's at all, and the choice of words is deliberate because that is what Conventions have been since I started watching'em in '84. A few days of spewing and bloviating about the magnificance of the chosen candidate, be they Democrat or Republican without exception. Heck, even ole Ross Perot's was a coronation!

3. If you want proof of Obama's management skills, just look at how he unseated the 'inevitable' Hillary Clinton.
It's also interesting to compare the remarkable stability in his core campaign staff to the numerous shakeups and wholesale revamping McCain's campaign did before recently settling on Steve Schmidt and his merry crew of Rovian hacks.

Hillary's collapse has as much to do with Obama's skills as her failures. Rather the story of his career in federal politics. First with the collapse of Jack Ryan and the umm... interesting choice of Allan Keyes, and now with Clinton. No doubt about it, he's a lucky man to always be matched against opponents who shoot themselves in the foot.

Personally I'd much rather have President Obama deal with the people you mention than President McCain following through with his 'we're all Georgians now' bullshit and attacking Russia or doing something else equally stupid by writing checks the US can't cash.

Shit, even conservative Republican Senator Thad Cochran says that the idea of a McCain presidency scares him.

Well, good for you, glad you've figured it out, but I'm still undeceided and I'm wondering how I'm supposed to take a guy seriously on the world stage that can't even manage to keep his own victory parade from getting upstaged.

I'm not sure how you can hold Obama accountable for the fact Hillary Clinton is an egotistical bitch who would rather backstab her own party than admit she lost the election.

Oh, no question at all that she's an egotistical backstabbing bitch from hell. But so is every other politician and world leader out there. And yet he can't keep her in her place even when he has the thing locked up. Heck, 2 of convention nights are dedicated to the Clintons, regardless of who the Keynotes are.

So again... why should I believe he can talk the Saudis out of building a nuke, to say nothing of talking the Iranians, Syrians, or Norks?

[Darth Wong]

Oh, no question at all that she's an egotistical backstabbing bitch from hell. But so is every other politician and world leader out there. And yet he can't keep her in her place even when he has the thing locked up. Heck, 2 of convention nights are dedicated to the Clintons, regardless of who the Keynotes are.

So again... why should I believe he can talk the Saudis out of building a nuke, to say nothing of talking the Iranians, Syrians, or Norks?

Is your definition of an effective politician one who never compromises on anything and which can make anything happen that he wants, at will, regardless of popular sentiment? Because if that's it, I would suggest you cast your vote for Vladimir Putin.

It's amazing how many people have such a powerful longing to be ruled by an autocrat, or who think that a good diplomat is one who never compromises on anything (hint: that is typically a failed Bush-style diplomat who never seriously tried to reach an accommodation).

[xammer99]

Oh, no question at all that she's an egotistical backstabbing bitch from hell. But so is every other politician and world leader out there. And yet he can't keep her in her place even when he has the thing locked up. Heck, 2 of convention nights are dedicated to the Clintons, regardless of who the Keynotes are.

So again... why should I believe he can talk the Saudis out of building a nuke, to say nothing of talking the Iranians, Syrians, or Norks?

Is your definition of an effective politician one who never compromises on anything and which can make anything happen that he wants, at will, regardless of popular sentiment? Because if that's it, I would suggest you cast your vote for Vladimir Putin.

It's amazing how many people have such a powerful longing to be ruled by an autocrat, or who think that a good diplomat is one who never compromises on anything (hint: that is typically a failed Bush-style diplomat who never seriously tried to reach an accommodation).

Umm... no on the Autocrat thing, and thanks though for asking.

So, its a sign of strength of leadership that a guy gets 30 years of tradition overturned by one spoiled child of a loser? Thats a mighty big pill to swallow that someone getting upstage and caving in is a virtue. This is like going to your 16th birthday party where mom & dad are handing over the keys to the new Mustang and the 10 year old spoiled brat taking over the party and making it about her.

I'm just incredibly disappointed in Obama for this one. Compromise is nice and all, but this isn't compromise. It's his freakin party and he's handing it over to those douchebags.

[Darth Wong]

You're an idiot. You think that a man's effectiveness at being a diplomat is proven by his ability or inability to get 100% of what he wants and make sure the other party gets none of what it wants. You may not admit your longing to be ruled by a strongman, but it's pretty obvious nonetheless.

[Vympel]

Seems to have forgotten that diplomacy is the art of compromise - i.e. neither side walks away completely happy, but they can both live with it.

Of course, Bush forgot this too. That's why all his so-called "diplomacy" attempts are actually ultimatums - "we refuse to speak to you until you agree to all our demands!" They do this constantly.

[Anguirus]

How does anyone with any reading comprehension skills think that Clinton still presents a serious challenge to Obama?

He's throwing her a bone. That's not a sign of weakness, that's good politics. If she throws a tantrum, she'll never hold office again.

[Fire Fly]

How does anyone with any reading comprehension skills think that Clinton still presents a serious challenge to Obama?

He's throwing her a bone. That's not a sign of weakness, that's good politics. If she throws a tantrum, she'll never hold office again.

Of course she doesn't present any serious challenge; that doesn't mean she can't make his life difficult. Her supporters are already accusing him of not doing enough to help alleviate her debt and there are already whispers that a few of them are trying to derail the convention. And lets not forget Bill who is seriously pissed off that he isn't loved anymore. Until its over, any technicality which exists is a weakness to Obama.

[Darth Wong]

How does anyone with any reading comprehension skills think that Clinton still presents a serious challenge to Obama?

He's throwing her a bone. That's not a sign of weakness, that's good politics. If she throws a tantrum, she'll never hold office again.

Of course she doesn't present any serious challenge; that doesn't mean she can't make his life difficult. Her supporters are already accusing him of not doing enough to help alleviate her debt and there are already whispers that a few of them are trying to derail the convention. And lets not forget Bill who is seriously pissed off that he isn't loved anymore. Until its over, any technicality which exists is a weakness to Obama.

The fact is that he is trying to woo them over, not tell them to go fuck themselves. It is not a sign of weakness in Obama so much as it is a sign that the Democratic Party has to deal with a lot of crypto-racists and closet conservatives in its ranks. It is not and has never been the monolithic bastion of liberalism that the Republicans paint it as.

[Anguirus]

Of course she doesn't present any serious challenge; that doesn't mean she can't make his life difficult. Her supporters are already accusing him of not doing enough to help alleviate her debt and there are already whispers that a few of them are trying to derail the convention. And lets not forget Bill who is seriously pissed off that he isn't loved anymore. Until its over, any technicality which exists is a weakness to Obama.

That's nonsense. The only "weakness" in his position is that perceived by macho bullshitters who'd rather see him kick Clinton's teeth out on national TV. What part of Clinton cannot steal the fucking nomination is not getting through? Obama has been the de facto nominee for weeks, and Clinton has no campaign organization. She also will commit political suicide if she reneges on her promise to back Obama at the convention.

[Darth Wong]

Getting her name on the ballot is a potential opportunity for Clinton to undo some of the massive public relations damage she's done to herself in the last few months, by showing that she's still an influential figure and then making a big public show of graciously throwing her support behind Obama at the convention.

No word on whether that's actually her plan. She might just want to sabotage the Democrats' chances in 2008 so she can run again in 2012.

[SirNitram]

It's not all that huge for an 'Also-ran' to be put on the ballot, then release their delegates to the winner at the convention.

There are two reasons people are acting like this is HYUGE!

1) It's Clinton.

2) It's one of the first close Primaries in a long, long time.

It's a simple move to honor the fact she did a shit-ton better in the primaries than the other also-rans. The blinding incompetence of her staff and her inability to overrule them aside, it was still a rather epic final vote tally for her.

[Glocksman]

And as the 3 examples you listed show... not a damn one worked at well for the contested

It's a nitpick, but Nixon won in 1968.