Family Blames School for Gay Son's Death

Fleet Admiral JD · Post by **Fleet Admiral JD** » 2008-08-15 11:24am

VENTURA, Calif. - The family of a gay teenager who was fatally shot in class blames the school district for allowing their son to wear makeup and feminine clothing to school — factors the family claims led to the death.

The parents and brother of 15-year-old Larry King of Oxnard filed a personal injury claim against the Hueneme school district seeking unspecified damages for not enforcing the dress code.

King, an eighth-grader at E.O. Green Junior High School, was shot in February. Classmate Brandon McInerney pleaded not guilty to the shooting last week. He was charged as an adult and also faces a charge of a committing a hate crime.

The family's claim, filed last week in Ventura County Superior Court, said administrators and teachers failed to enforce the school's dress code when King wore feminine clothing and makeup to school.

His parents, Dawn and Gregory King, said faculty members knew their son had "unique vulnerabilities" and was subject to abuse because of his sexual orientation.

A call for comment to district Superintendent Jerry Dannenberg was not immediately returned.

State law requires individuals to file a claim before proceeding with a lawsuit against a public agency.

Link

All I have to ask is, "Seriously?" I mean, I can understand grief but it's the school's fault that the kid dressed differently? It's not the student who shot him, no, couldn't be, right?

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2008-08-15 11:38am

Firstly, if they felt he was at risk, why didn't they come down on him instead of waiting for the school to dress him?

Secondly, blaming "feminine appearance" for someone getting shot would be like blaming "slutty appearance" for someone getting raped, it's a displacement of the serious problems (namely of the desires to rape and kill) that would never address them.

Thirdly, the school could severely punish anyone they found leaning towards bastardry if they had the will, but few authority figures are going to do that if it costs them an extra hour or two a day, when, for all we know, they hate gays or transgenders themselves.

Azazal · Post by **Azazal** » 2008-08-15 11:50am

Deep pocket syndrome, I'm betting the shooter is piss-poor, as such sue whoever has money instead.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2008-08-15 12:42pm

Zuul wrote:Firstly, if they felt he was at risk, why didn't they come down on him instead of waiting for the school to dress him?

Maybe they didn't know he was doing it. He might have changed clothes on the way to school. Some girls do that; they change into slutty clothes on the way to school (or after they get to school) so their parents see their chaste little angel but the boys at school see a loose-legged slut.

Secondly, blaming "feminine appearance" for someone getting shot would be like blaming "slutty appearance" for someone getting raped, it's a displacement of the serious problems (namely of the desires to rape and kill) that would never address them.

That's a very simplistic way to look at it. Negligence lawsuits are about failing to live up to one's responsibility, not identifying a singular party to blame. If the cops all decided to take a day off work to watch the Super Bowl and the crime rate skyrocketed on that day, you obviously have to blame the criminals themselves for committing the crimes, but the cops were still negligent and should be held liable.

Similarly, if this school did indeed have a dress code and didn't bother enforcing it, then they were in breach of their own rules, and they should be held responsible for whatever consequences resulted, even if they could only be held partially responsible. It's not about taking blame away from the shooter; it's about identifying a second offense here, which was the school's negligence. Now obviously, we don't have all the facts here, but all I'm saying is that you can't dismiss this as frivolous based on the information at hand.

Thirdly, the school could severely punish anyone they found leaning towards bastardry if they had the will, but few authority figures are going to do that if it costs them an extra hour or two a day, when, for all we know, they hate gays or transgenders themselves.

I'd bet that if someone came in wearing a T-shirt with a Nazi swastika on it, they would have found the time to make him change it.

Zixinus · Post by **Zixinus** » 2008-08-15 01:06pm

Am I the only one noticing the fact that this was within a class? That a classmate shot another? Shit-eathing fuckatoids, what kind of high-school is this?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2008-08-15 01:10pm

Zixinus wrote:Am I the only one noticing the fact that this was within a class? That a classmate shot another? Shit-eathing fuckatoids, what kind of high-school is this?

It also says that the victim was a 15 year old "eight grader". That doesn't add up either. How the fuck can he be 15 years old and only in 8th grade?

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2008-08-15 01:22pm

Azazal wrote:Deep pocket syndrome, I'm betting the shooter is piss-poor, as such sue whoever has money instead.

No trogolodyte, more that they are grief stricken, and want someone to suffer. They are in the Anger stage of grief.

I will be really blunt here. The school should be sued. But not for lack of enforcement of the dress code. It should be sued for failing in general to protect its students. If they have a gay student, and potentially a transgender student (I am familiar with this case BTW) and they know that this student suffers abuse and fail to do something about it, the school is negligent, and should be nailed to the fucking wall.

You want to know why this kid got shot? He was killed after he asked the wrong guy out on valentines day. I am not fucking joking. The kid freaked out, and came back to school within the next couple days with a gun, and shot him.

It also says that the victim was a 15 year old "eight grader". That doesn't add up either. How the fuck can he be 15 years old and only in 8th grade?

Its possible if your birthday falls at an odd time of year, possibly get held back for poor kindergarten performance or something, or he moved from a strange place.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2008-08-15 01:23pm

The worst thing is that the Phelps family is probably going to protest this kid's funeral.

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2008-08-15 01:31pm

Darth Wong wrote: Maybe they didn't know he was doing it. He might have changed clothes on the way to school. Some girls do that; they change into slutty clothes on the way to school (or after they get to school) so their parents see their chaste little angel but the boys at school see a loose-legged slut.

True enough.

That's a very simplistic way to look at it. Negligence lawsuits are about failing to live up to one's responsibility, not identifying a singular party to blame. If the cops all decided to take a day off work to watch the Super Bowl and the crime rate skyrocketed on that day, you obviously have to blame the criminals themselves for committing the crimes, but the cops were still negligent and should be held liable.

I realise that, which is why I said a school could've acted upon the hints of bastardly behaviour earlier if they'd really wanted to. I recall similar situations in my school where it was obvious that violence was about to kick off and teachers would hurry past, so they'd have plausible deniability for not having to deal with it.

I'd bet that if someone came in wearing a T-shirt with a Nazi swastika on it, they would have found the time to make him change it.

I have no doubt. They'd identify that as "threatening" or "intimidating" presumably, and act accordingly. Some kid not going about threatening people but rather raising ire from the untermensch for failing to conform in some inconsequential way could be safely ignored, or so they thought. I mean, someone that dresses like that is probably not going to bug you in class like a chav or wannabe gangsta; and if they don't say anything, there's no reason to assume they're being bullied or are in danger. Plausible deniability again. Something similar must go on in loads of other schools without resulting in shootings, I could understand why a school would let it go.

Now obviously, we don't have all the facts here, but all I'm saying is that you can't dismiss this as frivolous based on the information at hand.

Definitely true.

Adrian Laguna · Post by **Adrian Laguna** » 2008-08-15 01:32pm

Alyrium Denryle wrote:You want to know why this kid got shot? He was killed after he asked the wrong guy out on valentines day. I am not fucking joking. The kid freaked out, and came back to school within the next couple days with a gun, and shot him.

That sounds like murder one. Two day delay, plus bringing a gun to school for the specific purpose of shooting someone, are clear indicators of pre-mediation.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2008-08-15 01:53pm

Adrian Laguna wrote:
Alyrium Denryle wrote:You want to know why this kid got shot? He was killed after he asked the wrong guy out on valentines day. I am not fucking joking. The kid freaked out, and came back to school within the next couple days with a gun, and shot him.
That sounds like murder one. Two day delay, plus bringing a gun to school for the specific purpose of shooting someone, are clear indicators of pre-mediation.

Oh yeah. But you wont see that charged... it will probably end up being murder 2, or an acquital due to gay panic defense

Darth Hoth · Post by **Darth Hoth** » 2008-08-15 01:59pm

Why would you think that?

Darksider · Post by **Darksider** » 2008-08-15 02:03pm

Alyrium Denryle wrote: Oh yeah. But you wont see that charged... it will probably end up being murder 2, or an acquital due to gay panic defense

They still allow shit like that? I remember when my law teacher was calling bullshit on it in tenth grade. I mean, I know it would fly in deep south fundieland where everyone is inbred enough to buy it, but this took place in California for fuck's sake.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2008-08-15 02:06pm

Alyrium Denryle wrote:
Oh yeah. But you wont see that charged... it will probably end up being murder 2, or an acquital due to gay panic defense

Gay panic defense, as in "I had to shoot cause he wanted to fuck me"?

Pint0 Xtreme · Post by **Pint0 Xtreme** » 2008-08-15 02:07pm

Darksider wrote:
Alyrium Denryle wrote: Oh yeah. But you wont see that charged... it will probably end up being murder 2, or an acquital due to gay panic defense
They still allow shit like that? I remember when my law teacher was calling bullshit on it in tenth grade. I mean, I know it would fly in deep south fundieland where everyone is inbred enough to buy it, but this took place in California for fuck's sake.

California isn't this a state that's painted blue all over. Its major cities and counties are typically socially progressive but other parts of California can be similar to fundieland in the deep south. Ventura may be one of those places.

Pint0 Xtreme · Post by **Pint0 Xtreme** » 2008-08-15 02:08pm

Cpl Kendall wrote:
Alyrium Denryle wrote:
Oh yeah. But you wont see that charged... it will probably end up being murder 2, or an acquital due to gay panic defense
Gay panic defense, as in "I had to shoot cause he wanted to fuck me"?

I don't know if this will happen here but it wouldn't be inaccurate to say that something similar hasn't happened before.

Pint0 Xtreme · Post by **Pint0 Xtreme** » 2008-08-15 02:09pm

Pint0 Xtreme wrote:I don't know if this will happen here but it wouldn't be inaccurate to say that something similar hasn't happened before.

Fuck. That should be "something similar has happened before".

Azazal · Post by **Azazal** » 2008-08-15 02:56pm

Alyrium Denryle wrote:
Azazal wrote:Deep pocket syndrome, I'm betting the shooter is piss-poor, as such sue whoever has money instead.
No trogolodyte, more that they are grief stricken, and want someone to suffer. They are in the Anger stage of grief.

I will be really blunt here. The school should be sued. But not for lack of enforcement of the dress code. It should be sued for failing in general to protect its students. If they have a gay student, and potentially a transgender student (I am familiar with this case BTW) and they know that this student suffers abuse and fail to do something about it, the school is negligent, and should be nailed to the fucking wall.

I agree with you there, sue the school for letting the cromagnum fucktard bring a gun into school, suing for failing to enforce the dress code sound like a very weak case. Also, since you are more familiar with the case, have they filed a wrongful death lawsuit against said fucktard?

Cosmic Average · Post by **Cosmic Average** » 2008-08-15 03:34pm

Lawrence King, the boy who was murdered, wasn't living with his family at the time of the shooting:

The county's risk manager, Chuck Pode, said he expected to reject the claim. King was a ward of the court and living at the Casa Pacifica shelter for abused, neglected and emotionally troubled children at the time of the shooting.

It was there that he began to dress in a 'feminine manner':

For unspecified reasons, the family also says King should have been placed in a foster or group home instead of Casa Pacifica. Students have said that King started dressing in a feminine manner while at Casa Pacifica.

Link

Enigma · Post by **Enigma** » 2008-08-15 07:44pm

Alyrium Denryle wrote:
Adrian Laguna wrote:
Alyrium Denryle wrote:You want to know why this kid got shot? He was killed after he asked the wrong guy out on valentines day. I am not fucking joking. The kid freaked out, and came back to school within the next couple days with a gun, and shot him.
That sounds like murder one. Two day delay, plus bringing a gun to school for the specific purpose of shooting someone, are clear indicators of pre-mediation.
Oh yeah. But you wont see that charged... it will probably end up being murder 2, or an acquital due to gay panic defense

From the link that Cosmic Average posted.

Classmate Brandon McInerney, 14, has been charged with first-degree murder and a hate crime in the boy's death.

Apparently he has been charged murder one. But then again with a possibility of a plea bargain, the charge might be lowered to murder 2 or even lower.

Mayabird · Post by **Mayabird** » 2008-08-16 12:03am

Darth Wong wrote:
Zixinus wrote:Am I the only one noticing the fact that this was within a class? That a classmate shot another? Shit-eathing fuckatoids, what kind of high-school is this?
It also says that the victim was a 15 year old "eight grader". That doesn't add up either. How the fuck can he be 15 years old and only in 8th grade?

Failing a lot.

That's how we had a 16 year old in my 8th grade class. I shit thee not. The guy drove to school (suffice to say that in a sane or non-idiotic locale he wouldn't have been able to get a license anyway) and ended up dropping out in ninth grade.

ArmorPierce · Post by **ArmorPierce** » 2008-08-16 12:31am

He is not that old to be in the 8th grade. By the time most 8th graders graduate they are 14 so 15 is only one year difference that could have been caused by a number of things. The biggest I see is when someone moves from other countries followed by people failing.

Master of Cards · Post by **Master of Cards** » 2008-08-16 12:40am

ArmorPierce wrote:He is not that old to be in the 8th grade. By the time most 8th graders graduate they are 14 so 15 is only one year difference that could have been caused by a number of things. The biggest I see is when someone moves from other countries followed by people failing.

No it is not in fact common to have 15 year olds in an 8th grade class. There was one in my class of 300, and she had to learn English so she got held back. Most of the kids were 13/14.

ArmorPierce · Post by **ArmorPierce** » 2008-08-16 12:51am

did I say that it is normal? I'm said that it isn't that much of a stretch since it is only 1 year difference which could be attributed to a number of things. Two things, how do you know that there was only 1 in 300. Did you you know each individual one of them and how old they were? Second 300 is small for a middle school where I am from. 3rd, only having one immigrant that don't know english in your school not knowing English is incredibly small.

ArmorPierce · Post by **ArmorPierce** » 2008-08-16 12:53am

Oh yeah lastly, I know plenty of people who were going to school in other countries and even citizens in this country that were held back. My cousin was a citizen and she knew how she spoke English but when she came here they put her in the 8th grade instead of high school. That's the point where a lot of people get their grades messed up actually right between high school and middle school.