Boeing launches flying Laser plane Of Doom

[The Grim Squeaker]

Boeing ATL Aircraft High-Energy Laser Ground Tested

ATL aircraft and its high-energy laser are said to be capable of supernatural accuracy

Lasers have long been the stuff of science fiction and dreams, but good ideas have a habit of moving from fiction into the realm of reality. Boeing is certainly moving the laser from the realm of fiction into reality as a tactical weapon.

Boeing announced that it successfully completed the first ground test of the entire weapon system integrated onboard the Advanced Tactical Laser (ATL) aircraft. Boeing said on August 7 at Kirtland Air Force Base in New Mexico, the ATL aircraft successfully fired its high-energy chemical laser through the aircraft beam control system. According to Boeing, this achievement is a key milestone in the ATL aircraft Technology Demonstration Program.

During the ground test, the laser beam control system acquired a ground target and guided the laser beam to the target as directed by the ATL aircraft battle management system. The laser beam was passed through the rotating turret on the belly of the ATL aircraft.

Scott Fancher, vice president and general manager of Boeing Missile Defense Systems said in a statement, "By firing the laser through the beam control system for the first time, the ATL team has begun to demonstrate the functionality of the entire weapon system integrated aboard the aircraft. This is a major step toward providing the ultra-precision engagement capability that the warfighter needs to dramatically reduce collateral damage."

Boeing also reported that on May 13, the ATL aircraft's high-energy laser was fired from aboard the aircraft, but during that test an onboard calorimeter captured the laser beam before it left the aircraft. Boeing reported that after conducting additional ground tests and air tests, the ATL aircraft will then fire the laser in-flight at a ground target later this year.

Boeing stated that accuracy is the hallmark for the ATL aircraft and its high-energy chemical laser, but the company is rather coy on exactly how accurate the laser is. Wired stated that the ATL aircraft and its high-energy laser are capable of phenomenal accuracy during the day or at night.

Wired also added that the nature of the laser weapon and its accuracy allows for plausible deniability in the face of any direct action performed with the ATL aircraft. The only thing a witness would see is the result of the laser hitting the target. The ability for the ATL aircraft in the high-energy chemical laser to strike without attribution reportedly appears in two separate briefing documents delivered by Air Force personnel describing the benefits of the new directed energy weapon.

Another exceptionally impressive aspect of the ATL aircraft and the high-energy laser is that the laser operators and mission planners can choose at will whether the laser is lethal or non-lethal. The laser can be used to either destroy a vehicle completely, or simply blow out tires rendering the vehicle inoperable.

Wired showed an image depicting the phenomenal speed and accuracy of the laser, which claims that the ATL aircraft could in theory, in a mere 26 second engagement strike 32 different tires, 11 antenna, three missile launchers, 11 EO devices, four mortars, and five machine guns in a convoy of military vehicles. The entire strike could be done without hitting one single soldier or refugees nearby. If the capabilities of the ATL and its high-energy laser live up to the claims, it will simply be a phenomenal weapon platform.

\I...Like big lasers and I cannot lie, what other guys may deny...

[Shinova]

That 26-second thing with the accuracy is freakishly freaky.

[phred]

Great. Next they'll be mounting it on a space station and threatening to blow up the earth

[Ford Prefect]

That 26-second thing with the accuracy is freakishly freaky.

Forgive me if I don't subscribe directly to the hype, just yet. I can't really talk about how accurate a source Wired is.

[Vendetta]

Forgive me if I don't subscribe directly to the hype, just yet. I can't really talk about how accurate a source Wired is.

Whilst I'm not going to support specific claims, the airborne laser systems were originally designed to shoot down tactical ballistic missiles, so you'd expect them to have pretty fast acquisition and tracking.

[Ford Prefect]

Forgive me if I don't subscribe directly to the hype, just yet. I can't really talk about how accurate a source Wired is.

Whilst I'm not going to support specific claims, the airborne laser systems were originally designed to shoot down tactical ballistic missiles, so you'd expect them to have pretty fast acquisition and tracking.

You would expect it to be capable of some fairly effective tracking, yes. But given this was the first ever ground test of the weapon, I think it's just a little premature to claim that it would be capable of accurately hitting sixty six seperate small targets in twenty six seconds. Given that Boeing apparently wasn't forthcoming on the actual capabilities of the system, where the hell did Wired get their information?

[Vendetta]

Probably from the sales pitch.

However, as it's being fired from a stable platform (YAL-1 is a 747-400), and if we're talking about hitting a convoy it's against a predictably moving target, it might just be a case of preprogramming the attack pattern, and this is a theoretical maximum taken from how fast the laser assembly can reorient and turn on and off.

[Beowulf]

It's not being fired from the YAL-1. IIRC, the ATL is supposed to be on a C-130. Might be a C-17.

[Pelranius]

Seems like an awfully large system for a C-130 to support? I though you'd at least need a C-17 minimum to carry all the extra batteries and fuel cells it you want to be able to attack multiple targets.

[Beowulf]

It's a C-130. Apparently weighs in the neighborhood of 5-7 tons. It's not powered by batteries, or fuel cells, but is rather a chemical laser.

[Sea Skimmer]

ATL was originally supposed to fit on an V-22, with the CH-47 as the backup choice of airframe… boy did that prove totally impossible.

[Singular Intellect]

I really fucking want one! *drools*

[Icehawk]

ATL was originally supposed to fit on an V-22, with the CH-47 as the backup choice of airframe… boy did that prove totally impossible.

Yeah, chemical lasers are bulky as shit but this thing is still damn cool for what it supposedly can do. But, they are also working on FELs (Free Electron Lasers) which can be made much smaller and lighter IIRC. I believe they were hoping to eventually mount a 150 kilowatt power range one on an F-35.

[Shroom Man 777]

How's that working out, the F-35 laser thing?

[Pelranius]

Pardon my ignorance, but is the Lightning II laser intended for dogfighting or for shooting down enemy air to air missiles?

[Sea Skimmer]

How's that working out, the F-35 laser thing?

The hope is that a decision to buy such a thing could be made in 2016. Right now solid state lasers are too immature for it to be practical to do any development work for specific weapons applications. It’s kind of unlikely that it will ever happen though, because fitting the laser will require a completely new version of the aircraft which would be very expensive and limited in range (laser displaces fuel).

As for accuracy, ground to ground testing low power solid state lasers has showed less then 1 inch of dispersion at 23 miles. Destroying a specific tire or weapon should be entirely feasible even from a moving aircraft, but it would be idiotic to think you could strike dozens of targets and hurt no one.

[Hawkwings]

I remember that one of the plans for the F-35 was to have that VTOL-fan ripped out, and use the fanshaft to generate power for the laser.

[Loner]

Seems like Ace Combat wasn't too far fetched about laser packing fighter planes.

[Sea Skimmer]

I remember that one of the plans for the F-35 was to have that VTOL-fan ripped out, and use the fanshaft to generate power for the laser.

Yup, that’s that’s the only plan; the generator would need to produce about 1 megawatt to power a worthwhile laser which is less power then the lift fan draws.

However actually removing the lift fans from operational aircraft isn’t going to happen, the changes are too radical (laser cooling lines have to be piped into all the fuel tanks among other things) and the performance of the F-35B is too limited for it to make much sense.

The optimal thing to do would be to take the F-35C, which has a bigger wing with more fuel, and mod that to have the drive shaft. This way we’d get a laser equipped F-35 with the best possible range and which still have its full internal weapons capability, F-35B has smaller bays to save weight.

[Pelranius]

Couldn't we just miniaturize a nuclear reactor (the Russians at one point were thinking about nuclear powered tanks) or some sort of radioactive battery to power the laser? Of course, if that fighter ever got shot down over our territory....

[Lord Relvenous]

Or any other. It's not like nuclear debris is ok if it's not over the U.S.

This is my question: what is the purpose of this paragraph:

Wired also added that the nature of the laser weapon and its accuracy allows for plausible deniability in the face of any direct action performed with the ATL aircraft. The only thing a witness would see is the result of the laser hitting the target. The ability for the ATL aircraft in the high-energy chemical laser to strike without attribution reportedly appears in two separate briefing documents delivered by Air Force personnel describing the benefits of the new directed energy weapon.

Why is this important? It makes me think of Tom Clany novels where Deus Ex organization uses some untrackable resource to "do the things the government can't". Why is it a good thing to have no responsibility for our actions?

[Venator]

Wired also added that the nature of the laser weapon and its accuracy allows for plausible deniability in the face of any direct action performed with the ATL aircraft. The only thing a witness would see is the result of the laser hitting the target. The ability for the ATL aircraft in the high-energy chemical laser to strike without attribution reportedly appears in two separate briefing documents delivered by Air Force personnel describing the benefits of the new directed energy weapon.

Why is this important? It makes me think of Tom Clany novels where Deus Ex organization uses some untrackable resource to "do the things the government can't". Why is it a good thing to have no responsibility for our actions?

I can see is psychological factor; much like tracer-heavy gattling guns look like "death rays", this inspires fear since you have no idea what's killing you.

As for the idea of plausible deniability, I find it absurd; you have to have the aircraft in range and line of sight to the target for it to act, and it's hardly "plausible", since no one else has Invisible Death Rays of DooM (yet).

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Call me skeptical, but mounting a laser (even solid state) on a plane like the F-35 might not work. The cooling systems for lasers of that type are bulky and I'm not sure there's enough space to mount them. You have to actually drive water or some cooling fluid into the laser system and pump it out.

[Sea Skimmer]

No doubt about that, making this work will be hard as hell and may simply never happen or at least not for another 25 years. For a decent power laser you talking about getting rid of a megawatt plus of waste heat for as long as the lasers firing; that’s the kind of heat a high power race car engines radiator has to dissipate. To make it worse whatever cooling system is used has to be stealth too, exposed radiators aren’t acceptable, so the proposal is to use the planes fuel as a heat sink for a liquid cooling loop. That’s going to mean enormously complex plumbing.

Still, its not totally unknown territory, the radars on fighter aircraft are already liquid cooled, as is the Pirate IRST planned for the Typhoon fighter has compressed argon cooling for higher sensitivity. That’s small stuff.. but hey, by 2016 we can at least dream about doing this.


As for nuclear power... Radioactive batteries have absurdly low power to weight ratios, powering a car off one would be hard, let alone an aircraft or a laser cannon. Nuclear reactors can power aircraft only if you skimp on radiation shielding, the real reactors which got flown on aircraft (no aircraft was ever actually powered by a reactor) only had a forward bulkhead to shield the pilots. That makes ground handling extremely difficult and the whole idea is really just insane.

[Ender]

Call me skeptical, but mounting a laser (even solid state) on a plane like the F-35 might not work. The cooling systems for lasers of that type are bulky and I'm not sure there's enough space to mount them. You have to actually drive water or some cooling fluid into the laser system and pump it out.

Lasers produce so much waste heat because until recently (as in, last couple of years) no one was seriously looking at them for anything other then science experiments and pie in the sky projects. No one gave a damn if it was only 1% efficient - there is no physical limit making them blast furnaces AFAIK, but there was no motivation to make them better either.. Now that they are coming closer and closer to being practical weapons though, expect a large focus on increasing energy efficiency and cooling efficiency.