Texas School District to Let Teachers Carry guns

[Cairber]

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HOUSTON (Reuters) - A Texas school district will let teachers bring guns to class this fall, the district's superintendent said on Friday, in what experts said appeared to be a first in the United States.

The board of the small rural Harrold Independent School District unanimously approved the plan and parents have not objected, said the district's superintendent, David Thweatt.

School experts backed Thweatt's claim that Harrold, a system of about 110 students 150 miles northwest of Fort Worth, may be the first to let teachers bring guns to the classroom.

Thweatt said it is a matter of safety.

"We have a lock-down situation, we have cameras, but the question we had to answer is, 'What if somebody gets in? What are we going to do?" he said. "It's just common sense."

Teachers who wish to bring guns will have to be certified to carry a concealed handgun in Texas and get crisis training and permission from school officials, he said.

Recent school shootings in the United States have prompted some calls for school officials to allow students and teachers to carry legally concealed weapons into classrooms.

The U.S. Congress once barred guns at schools nationwide, but the U.S. Supreme Court struck the law down, although state and local communities could adopt their own laws. Texas bars guns at schools without the school's permission.

No comment for now; but I'll be back later when the babe falls asleep.

[Mayabird]

Small rural school district with a grand total of 110 students. Middle of fucking nowhere where nobody fucking lives. And they live in fear that somehow in this teeny school in the middle of nowhere where everybody knows everybody else back five generations that somebody's going to randomly shoot up the kids.

The only thing that surprises me is that they didn't bring up their fears of a random terrorist attack on their backwater shithole.

[sketerpot]

It could be worse. They could be getting their peace of mind from draconian clamp-down-hard-on-everything policies instead of this otherwise inconsequential idea. For that reason alone, as long as all the teachers are qualified to carry the guns safely, I like this news.

(I mean, it would be better if everybody could just stop worrying so much about statistically unlikely but dramatic events. But that's not likely.)

[Buddha]

This will go nowhere and it is likely that it will be reversed and not spread to other schools. It might also change the nature of school shootings in the future, with teachers shooting students. This won't go anywhere any time soon or in the future. The threat of teachers going postal will be the reason or one of many.

[Death from the Sea]

I don't see this as a good thing. Are the teachers supposed to carry concealed? or store it in their desk locked? either is not a great idea. Teachers have to come in close contact with their students every day, how hard would it be for one to say come in for a hug and grab the gun?

As for the teachers going postal, it is more likely that they would shoot another teacher in anger than a student, IMHO, which ain't really any better.

don't most school districts these days have their own police department?

I hope Buddha is right.

[Zed Snardbody]

I don't see this as a good thing. Are the teachers supposed to carry concealed? or store it in their desk locked? either is not a great idea. Teachers have to come in close contact with their students every day, how hard would it be for one to say come in for a hug and grab the gun?

As for the teachers going postal, it is more likely that they would shoot another teacher in anger than a student, IMHO, which ain't really any better.

don't most school districts these days have their own police department?

I hope Buddha is right.

Make them use a retention holster and you can clear up a lot of those problems.

[Death from the Sea]

I don't see this as a good thing. Are the teachers supposed to carry concealed? or store it in their desk locked? either is not a great idea. Teachers have to come in close contact with their students every day, how hard would it be for one to say come in for a hug and grab the gun?

As for the teachers going postal, it is more likely that they would shoot another teacher in anger than a student, IMHO, which ain't really any better.

don't most school districts these days have their own police department?

I hope Buddha is right.

Make them use a retention holster and you can clear up a lot of those problems.

you also have to remember that a large majority of teachers are females. Many in their 60's, or even younger would not be able to fight off a teenager if they made a grab at the gun. That and depending on the holster, it would make it much more difficult for the teacher to get to as well, some retention holsters work too well.

[Rye]

The fact there are people in the world that think pentagrams and ouija boards are more dangerous around kids than firearms seriously concerns me.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Don't worry this will go away when a teacher accidently shoots a kid.

[Admiral Valdemar]

And if the teacher wants to go postal due to stress from work instead? Hooray, you've just armed your latest massacre headline maker yourself. Go Texas!

But don't worry. I hear the contingency plan is to arm the pupils then.

[salm]

And if the teacher wants to go postal due to stress from work instead? Hooray, you've just armed your latest massacre headline maker yourself. Go Texas!

But don't worry. I hear the contingency plan is to arm the pupils then.

Don't worry. Teachers are authorities and authorities never do anything wrong.

[Kuja]

Some superintendent's seen Red Dawn too many times.

[Azazal]

Bad ideas, very bad idea, my high school chem and physics teacher - shot the school super

Mr. Leith

[Sea Skimmer]

So for all you people who think teachers having guns at school will lead to teachers shooting people, please do explain to me what the fuck is stopping those insane teachers from shooting people already? They don’t search teachers before they go into schools, so nothing exists to stop a teacher from already bringing a gun to commit murder. Even if they DID do that a teacher could just gun down the kids as they line up to get on the buses to go home. At least with a guns allowed policy someone else in the building might have a gun to stop them if and when such an event does take place.

You might notice how well the campus wide no guns policy at Virginia Tech worked. No guns policies just mean plenty of unarmed victims.

Bad ideas, very bad idea, my high school chem and physics teacher - shot the school super

Mr. Leith

I see that the schools no guns policy was highly successful in preventing this teacher from brining a gun into the school…. Hey wait a minute…

[Admiral Valdemar]

So for all you people who think teachers having guns at school will lead to teachers shooting people, please do explain to me what the fuck is stopping those insane teachers from shooting people already?

Nothing, but hooray for strawmen.

I do find it funny how the answer to the US gun problem is... more guns. How about tackling the cause for this, since we have plenty of otherwise civilised nations that don't have this impossibly bad press over kids being shot to pieces on live daily news.

[General Zod]

Instead of arming the teachers, didn't these assclowns think for a minute that hiring professionally trained and armed security guards just might be a better idea? I somehow can't help but get the impression that they didn't want to spend the money on a guard and figured arming the teachers would save them cash and solve their problem at the same time.

[Sea Skimmer]

Nothing, but hooray for strawmen.

I do find it funny how the answer to the US gun problem is... more guns. How about tackling the cause for this, since we have plenty of otherwise civilised nations that don't have this impossibly bad press over kids being shot to pieces on live daily news.

Yeah, that’s the reality of the situation. The US has 200 million guns and no matter what the fuck laws are passed they aren’t going to go away. Over and over and again gun free zones have been the site of mass murder so clearly they don’t fucking work. If guns cause mass shootings then why isn’t every NRA convention a blood bath?

Instead of arming the teachers, didn't these assclowns think for a minute that hiring professionally trained and armed security guards just might be a better idea? I somehow can't help but get the impression that they didn't want to spend the money on a guard and figured arming the teachers would save them cash and solve their problem at the same time.

Sure, that’d work better, but you’re also looking at 60 grand per year per guard as a bare minimal expenditure which is not in the budget of most schools. I would fully support requiring training course on firearms safety, marksmanship and crisis management for any teacher wishing to carry a gun, and it would be way cheaper.

[SirNitram]

Most likely outcome: No change.

Ultra-slim chance: Teacher shoots someone when they snap.

Even more ridiculously slim chance: School shooting stopped.

Snowball In Hell: Terrorists defeated by Mr. James the PE teacher's kung-fu skills.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Yeah, that’s the reality of the situation. The US has 200 million guns and no matter what the fuck laws are passed they aren’t going to go away. Over and over and again gun free zones have been the site of mass murder so clearly they don’t fucking work. If guns cause mass shootings then why isn’t every NRA convention a blood bath?

Strawmanning again. Remind me where I said guns cause shootings. I do believe I explicitly stated that the American culture is the issue here. Canuckistan and Switzerland, and even the UK not too long ago, had absolutely no problems compared to the US. I am not so stupid as to say you should outlaw guns, because that's just not going to happen and falls down the same abyss of ban logic that has lead to calls to ban everything from blowguns to knives where I live. Instead, give these schools proper security protection and then address the why of this situation. No one ever successfully cured a problem by being reactive, it's proactive we want.

Sure, that’d work better, but you’re also looking at 60 grand per year per guard as a bare minimal expenditure which is not in the budget of most schools. I would fully support requiring training course on firearms safety, marksmanship and crisis management for any teacher wishing to carry a gun, and it would be way cheaper.

Then dedicated trained teachers would be a better bet. So long as they don't think a guy leading a class will have the know how and balls to take on a gunman or two should TSHTF. You definitely need someone who you can trust to act and not hesitate.

[General Zod]

Sure, that’d work better, but you’re also looking at 60 grand per year per guard as a bare minimal expenditure which is not in the budget of most schools. I would fully support requiring training course on firearms safety, marksmanship and crisis management for any teacher wishing to carry a gun, and it would be way cheaper.

And the moment some teacher winds up shooting some kid or gets careless with their gun and a kid gets ahold of it. . . .exactly how much do you think it's going to cost the school in lawsuits and liability after all the dust settles? It'll be a fuck of a lot more than the cost of a guard or two for something that has about the same probability of happening as a terrorist attack.

[Sea Skimmer]

And the moment some teacher winds up shooting some kid or gets careless with their gun and a kid gets ahold of it. . . .exactly how much do you think it's going to cost the school in lawsuits and liability after all the dust settles?

Probably less then the lawsuits stemming from a mass murder spree, Virginia Tech was very lucky that it got to settle most claims for only 11 million. That’s a cost that MIGHT have to be paid, hiring armed guards is something that MUST be budgeted for every year.

It'll be a fuck of a lot more than the cost of a guard or two for something that has about the same probability of happening as a terrorist attack.

An accidental shooting is also highly unlikely, and an armed guard presents the same risk as an armed teacher. In fact it might well be a higher risk, since odds are an armed teacher will not advertise the fact that they have a weapon, while everyone’s going to know who the armed guards are.

[General Zod]

An accidental shooting is also highly unlikely, and an armed guard presents the same risk as an armed teacher. In fact it might well be a higher risk, since odds are an armed teacher will not advertise the fact that they have a weapon, while everyone’s going to know who the armed guards are.

Quite frankly that's retarded. A trained, professional guard will not be interacting with the children to nearly the same degree a teacher will, and will not be confined to just one classroom, therefore able to respond to a threat more quickly. I'm failing to see how they present an even bigger liability just because you say they will.

[Questor]

An accidental shooting is also highly unlikely, and an armed guard presents the same risk as an armed teacher. In fact it might well be a higher risk, since odds are an armed teacher will not advertise the fact that they have a weapon, while everyone’s going to know who the armed guards are.

Quite frankly that's retarded. A trained, professional guard will not be interacting with the children to nearly the same degree a teacher will, and will not be confined to just one classroom, therefore able to respond to a threat more quickly. I'm failing to see how they present an even bigger liability just because you say they will.

If you honestly believe that, I have a bridge to sell you. Armed guards would have the same duties that current unarmed campus safety personnel do, they would provide supervision during breaks, investigate violations of school rules, and retrieve students who are in trouble from classrooms.

IANAL, but I think that they are a bigger liability because of the fact that as security guards, instead of private citizens or cops, the school district would have to assume liability for what they do. The district would share liability, but the fact that it was allowed, but not required might cloud the issue in the courts.

What I find amazing is that this district (of one school), exists at all.

Harrold School Students by Grade
Prekindergarten Students 0
Kindergarten Students 6
1st Grade Students 10
2nd Grade Students 10
3rd Grade Students 6
4th Grade Students 11
5th Grade Students 7
6th Grade Students 8
7th Grade Students 9
8th Grade Students 12
9th Grade Students 8
10th Grade Students 4
11th Grade Students 12
12th Grade Students 9
Ungraded Students 0
Total Students 112

from here

I do not believe that operating this school's physical plant and paying those 14 teachers, not to mention a support staff, is cheaper than bussing those kids.

Not to mention the fact that the kids are going to be disadvantaged by the lack of specialists for 7-12.

[General Zod]

If you honestly believe that, I have a bridge to sell you. Armed guards would have the same duties that current unarmed campus safety personnel do, they would provide supervision during breaks, investigate violations of school rules, and retrieve students who are in trouble from classrooms.

Are you retarded or is English not your first language? Do you honestly think that the time between classes is greater than the amount of time a teacher spends with their students in classes? Occasionally supervising them during breaks is nowhere near comparable to supervising them for several hours throughout the day.

IANAL, but I think that they are a bigger liability because of the fact that as security guards, instead of private citizens or cops, the school district would have to assume liability for what they do. The district would share liability, but the fact that it was allowed, but not required might cloud the issue in the courts.

Let me get this straight. Security guards, who will have several months if not years worth of training and experience protecting people while armed, are somehow a greater liability than teachers . . .because you say so? If they're using security guards, then they assume part of the liability, yes, but do you honestly think this is worse than assuming all of the liability the way arming teachers would demand?

[Questor]

If you honestly believe that, I have a bridge to sell you. Armed guards would have the same duties that current unarmed campus safety personnel do, they would provide supervision during breaks, investigate violations of school rules, and retrieve students who are in trouble from classrooms.

Are you retarded or is English not your first language? Do you honestly think that the time between classes is greater than the amount of time a teacher spends with their students in classes? Occasionally supervising them during breaks is nowhere near comparable to supervising them for several hours throughout the day.

It's not more, but very different interactions. These interactions (see the part I bolded), bring these personnel into more contact, alone, with the kids most likely to present the problem you are suggesting. Student contact en masse != one on one contact.

Let me get this straight. Security guards, who will have several months if not years worth of training and experience protecting people while armed, are somehow a greater liability than teachers . . .because you say so? If they're using security guards, then they assume part of the liability, yes, but do you honestly think this is worse than assuming all of the liability the way arming teachers would demand?

How would the district assume all liability? I said I didn't think they'd see much of any liability in the case of a teacher shooting a student. The district could say that this person had passed all background checks to own a gun, and that they were only allowing the teacher to exercise their rights as a gun owner.

Before this devolves any further, I think the ruling is moronic, but simply for the reason that I don't think that there should be ANY armed school personnel on a school campus. If an armed presence is necessary, it should be provided by the local police department. As much as I like the campus safety people I know, the thought of them being armed is rather scary.