US Citizens getting detained by ICE.

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SirNitram
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US Citizens getting detained by ICE.

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Marie Justeen Mancha was at home alone when she heard strange voices inside the house. As she crept down a hallway to make sure she wasn't hearing things, the voices erupted into shouts.

" 'Police! Illegals!' "

Testifying in a House subcommittee hearing, Mancha recalled the words she said the immigration agents shouted during the September 2006 raid on her home. She was 15 at the time, a Mexican American, born in Texas but living in Reidsville, Ga.

"I walked around the corner from the hallway and saw a tall man reach toward his gun and look straight at me," Mancha, now 17, said in a thick Southern accent. "My heart just dropped."

As the Department of Immigration and Customs Enforcement compiles a record number of arrests through household and work-site raids seeking illegal immigrants, a growing number of U.S. citizens such as Mancha say they have gotten caught in the net.

The agency, known as ICE, a division of the Homeland Security Department, recently reported that its arrests in the current fiscal year have surpassed last year's record total of about 4,900. The number of arrests has soared since 2005, when a Government Accountability Office report concluded that work-site enforcement was not a priority for ICE.

An ICE spokesman did not respond directly to a question about complaints that U.S. citizens and legal residents are getting swept up in the raids. "We target egregious employers, those who have built their business model on hiring an illegal workforce," spokesman Brandon Alvarez-Montgomery said in a statement this week. "This practice undercuts legal, law-abiding companies and can create an environment where employee welfare and labor standards are not enforced."

But there have been significant missteps. More than 100 citizens and legal residents were snared along with nearly 140 illegal immigrants in a raid on a software company in Van Nuys, Calif., early this year. Five citizens in Texas joined a lawsuit against the department, asserting that they were subjected to unreasonable search and seizure when agents raided a meatpacking plant where they worked last year. An African American worker said in a hearing that he was handcuffed and detained for hours without food and water during a raid on an Iowa meatpacking plant in 2006.

Immigration officials and anti-illegal-immigrant advocacy groups say the raids have proved effective, forcing Mexican nationals and others to think twice before sneaking across the border, and have instilled fear in illegal immigrants already here.

Critics say the raids and arrests have also led members of Congress to launch investigations and to a mounting number of lawsuits.

On its Web site, the American Immigration Law Foundation has summarized at least 10 lawsuits stemming from the raids, including the case of 7-year-old Kebin Reyes, a U.S. citizen who was held for hours when agents raided his home in the San Francisco Bay area and held his father, Noe, on suspicion of entering the country illegally. In June, the government agreed to a $30,000 settlement, according to the foundation.

Critics also point out that detention facilities used to hold suspected illegal immigrants and legal immigrants convicted of crimes are overflowing. The number of immigrant inmates has surpassed 40,000, and officials are struggling to find money to detain them and pay for medical expenses. The American Civil Liberties Union and news reports by The Washington Post and others have tracked cases of detainee illnesses that have gone untreated and cases in which inmates may have died for lack of treatment.

Rep. Zoe Lofgren (D-Calif.), who chairs the immigration subcommittee before which Mancha testified, said aggressive enforcement and arrests will not work without changes in the law to allow illegal immigrants to work legally and get on a path to citizenship.

"At this record rate of arrests, it would still take 2,943 years to deport the estimated 12 million undocumented immigrants," said Lofgren. During a recent raid at a kosher meatpacking plant in Pottsville, Iowa, she noted, ICE put those it had detained in a cattle barn. "That's where the majesty of the judicial system and the deportation process was dispensed, there in the cattle barn," Lofgren said.

Lofgren also cited the case of Pedro Guzman, a U.S. citizen who was turned over to ICE by the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department and removed to Tijuana.

In testimony about the case in February, attorney Rachel E. Rosenbloom of the Center for Human Rights and International Justice at Boston College, said Guzman, 29, had a significant cognitive disability and could not read or write, but the police agencies accepted his signature on a document consenting to be transferred.

"The . . . removal of Mr. Guzman is not an isolated incident," Rosenbloom said.

Mancha said she feared that she might be deported until she convinced the agents in her home that she was a citizen. "They asked me if my mom was a Mexican and if she had her papers or a green card. I answered all their questions, telling them my mama didn't need a green card, that she was born in Florida."

At the same hearing in February, Mike Graves, a U.S. citizen who has worked at a Swift meatpacking plant in Marshalltown, Iowa, for 21 years, testified that he was swept up in a 2006 raid "that felt like an attack."

Meatpackers at Swift plants in Cactus, Tex., joined a class-action lawsuit filed last year by the United Food and Commercial Workers against the DHS and ICE that seeks to prevent agents from conducting mass raids. Several plaintiffs said they were subjected to unreasonable searches and seizures.
4th Amendment Rights? Not in America! No-sirry! None of that liberal pansy stuff!

After all, we're only 2,943 years from getting rid of all the illegals here now! USA! USA! USA!

This is hilarious. One immigration raid, one hundred citizens grabbed and bagged. I thought the guy nearly deported for a funny name was a sole case, just something to mock in the increasing fail that is the immigration stance of this country. But nope! They're so blindingly incompetent they are doing it to quite a few.

I eagerly await whatever mealy-mouthed excuses are spewed. Last time we got 'It's his choices that screwed him!', when the man's actual choices were 'Go to get his green card'. What will it be now?
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Post by irishmick79 »

For the Van Nuys operation at least, I know for a fact that the meatpacking plant in question was systematically assisting illegals in getting the necessary fake documents to work - Social Security cards, birth cirtificates, drivers liscenses, the whole lot. The ICE agents investigating the case had a very difficult time in establishing identity and alienage for a lot of the people involved in this case, and wanted to get the main ring leaders of the op in custody before they had a chance to dissapear. There were also issues of several of the outright illegal aliens being forced to live on company grounds, work for substandard wages and in pretty poor conditions. The case was actually opened in response to a company employee tipping ICE off to the scheme because they wanted somebody to come and pull them out of the work environment.
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Post by MKSheppard »

Hum.

So we have another drive-by post by Nitram. I didn't even know that you were allowed behind the wheel at all by WV!
SirNitram wrote:After all, we're only 2,943 years from getting rid of all the illegals here now! USA! USA! USA!
You miss the point. We don't have to deport every single one. We just need to create a hostile environment to illegals. There's a concerted widespread crackdown on illegals going on in Northern Virginia right now, and it's really having an effect in the county that's doing it.
I eagerly await whatever mealy-mouthed excuses are spewed. Last time we got 'It's his choices that screwed him!', when the man's actual choices were 'Go to get his green card'.
Actually. I'll repeat it again for you. Since you're obviously too mentally infantile to understand it.

1.) Man arrives in US on tourist VISA.

2.) Overstays it.

3.) Applies for Asylum/Refugee Status.

4.) Never follows up on his immigration status for 15 years.

5.) Gets nabbed by ICE in a sting operation when he finally realizes "hey, maybe I should've gotten my green card a while ago", stupidly thinking that his fifteen years of ignoring INS/ICE would turn out good for him.

You make a huge point out of the government mailing the notice to appear in court to the wrong address; but he could have called or contacted the INS/ICE offices to check up on his status 15 years ago; and he didn't.

This is the same thing as someone not showing up at his Parole officer's office for nine months in a row, missing something like five checkups straight, and then complaining about the indignity of it all -- he was just there to check up with his agent -- as he's being dragged away by the Sheriff, when he finally shows up ten months in.
What will it be now?
/rant/

Actually, you can suck my dick, for all I care.

Stop bitching snidely on this board about how hard your life is blah blah blah -- you didn't hear me bitching over the last eight years as I slowly negotiated the mine-field filled path of a convicted felon released from imprisonment yet under legal restrictions on movement, et al.

It's my opinion that Adrian Laguna will become a citizen well before you, despite him being in the country a lot shorter than you have, and in spite of him being from a country on the USA's "Asshole" list (Venezula) and visiting it recently.

Mainly because he's not a total fuckhole, and is actually nice to the immigration officials who are assigned to his case.

/rant over/
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Post by Darth Wong »

MKSheppard wrote:You miss the point. We don't have to deport every single one. We just need to create a hostile environment to illegals. There's a concerted widespread crackdown on illegals going on in Northern Virginia right now, and it's really having an effect in the county that's doing it.
Technically speaking, your country has laws which were intended to guarantee that the government had to jump through certain hoops in order to nab individuals for being guilty of crimes. Bypassing those hoops in order to create a general atmosphere of fear is not permissible, and I have trouble seeing how it is beneficial in any way.
I eagerly await whatever mealy-mouthed excuses are spewed. Last time we got 'It's his choices that screwed him!', when the man's actual choices were 'Go to get his green card'.
Actually. I'll repeat it again for you. Since you're obviously too mentally infantile to understand it.

1.) Man arrives in US on tourist VISA.

2.) Overstays it.

3.) Applies for Asylum/Refugee Status.

4.) Never follows up on his immigration status for 15 years.

5.) Gets nabbed by ICE in a sting operation when he finally realizes "hey, maybe I should've gotten my green card a while ago", stupidly thinking that his fifteen years of ignoring INS/ICE would turn out good for him.

You make a huge point out of the government mailing the notice to appear in court to the wrong address; but he could have called or contacted the INS/ICE offices to check up on his status 15 years ago; and he didn't.
That's a good explanation for why he found himself in a detention cell. It doesn't explain why he couldn't be treated like a human being while he was in there. The people running these operations have no concept of ethics.
Stop bitching snidely on this board about how hard your life is blah blah blah -- you didn't hear me bitching over the last eight years as I slowly negotiated the mine-field filled path of a convicted felon released from imprisonment yet under legal restrictions on movement, et al.
Do you expect some sympathy from SirNitram or anyone else for that? You brought that upon yourself. You committed a serious crime, you were convicted, and you had to pay. Why is this relevant in any way to someone who has trouble navigating the paperwork to legally immigrate?
It's my opinion that Adrian Laguna will become a citizen well before you, despite him being in the country a lot shorter than you have, and in spite of him being from a country on the USA's "Asshole" list (Venezula) and visiting it recently.

Mainly because he's not a total fuckhole, and is actually nice to the immigration officials who are assigned to his case.
How is that speculation relevant?
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Post by SirNitram »

MKSheppard wrote:Hum.

So we have another drive-by post by Nitram. I didn't even know that you were allowed behind the wheel at all by WV!
Of course they let me behind the wheel. Not only did I pass my test years ago, get all the required ID, and sort out all possible issues with my move well beforehand, I've.. Never done anything to deserve not driving. Except questioned Sheppard, of course, who is Nothing-Knowing.

Drive by post? :lol: What, I can't post something? Or are you going to pretend I didn't reply in the last post? Indeed, you dodge the primary parts of the whole thing: That he was treated horribly and died as a result of categorical fuckups, just like these new ones, which characterize your sad attempt at immigration control.

'STOP BITCHING!!!!!!'

I'm allowed to criticize the government, Shep. I am certainly allowed to laugh at their pathetic failings at this, again, and again, and again. You can scream all you want about 'bitching snidely', but pointing out ICE is laughably incompetent and violating the Constitution is a valid criticism. ;)

'I DON'T BITCH ABOUT MY PRISON TIME!'

If I had shot at my father and thus got myself prison time and a felony record, I'd not really be warranted to bitch about that, no. Of course, what laws have I broken, little boy? Which ones? You can't name any! Of course not.

Your laughable, pathetic speculation on my citizenship status is irrelevent. Yes! Laguna will get to be a citizen before me! I am not 'making an opinion', nor even guessing: I am not going to become a US citizen. But no, you had to get personal. Because this is a vendetta for you, apparently. When you have real rebuttals to the post at hand, and thus are not violating the forum rules? Oh wait, you won't!
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Post by irishmick79 »

I think it's hard to fault ICE for trying to conduct these operations without the proper resources. Congress simply won't fund a robust detention and removal system because to do that would tacitly admit just how huge the illegal immigration problem is, and how badly they've fucked up by failing to find a consensus response to it. It's also more of a reflection of just how badly the US needs comprehensive immigration law reform. Until the law is changed, ICE is essentially saddled with the task of enforcing an unenforceable mandate without enough resources.

Also, in these investigations it's worth pointing out that it's not uncommon to run into illegals who are using 40-50 different aliases, 10-15 different social security numbers, and have documents supporting multiple identities. In many cases the only way to positively identify these people is to get them into custody and run their fingerprints and other biometrics through the systems. Also, a lot of the people who get detained also get used as material witnesses against more serious criminals.
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Post by Stargate Nerd »

irishmick79 wrote: Also, in these investigations it's worth pointing out that it's not uncommon to run into illegals who are using 40-50 different aliases, 10-15 different social security numbers, and have documents supporting multiple identities. In many cases the only way to positively identify these people is to get them into custody and run their fingerprints and other biometrics through the systems. Also, a lot of the people who get detained also get used as material witnesses against more serious criminals.
OK but I think the primary problem people are having with this is that those who are arrested are treated like animals while in custody, which is totally unnecessary.
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Post by irishmick79 »

Stargate Nerd wrote:
irishmick79 wrote: Also, in these investigations it's worth pointing out that it's not uncommon to run into illegals who are using 40-50 different aliases, 10-15 different social security numbers, and have documents supporting multiple identities. In many cases the only way to positively identify these people is to get them into custody and run their fingerprints and other biometrics through the systems. Also, a lot of the people who get detained also get used as material witnesses against more serious criminals.
OK but I think the primary problem people are having with this is that those who are arrested are treated like animals while in custody, which is totally unnecessary.
That is a funding issue. ICE can kick and scream for extra money all they want, but ultimately it's up to congress to fund the system. There definitely is an attitude in congress that illegals in custody are there for a reason and pretty much deserve whatever treatement they get. Combine that attitude with a general lack of interest from both the administration and congress in funding a proper detention system to reflect the scope of the illegal immigration problem, and you get crap like this. The Detention and Removal Office is stuck fighting for resources with the Bureau of Prisons, US Probation, and other offices within ICE that usually generate more interest, like Investigations or Intelligence. DRO often gets the short end of the stick in those battles.

Another big problem is that the detention and removal system is not designed to house people long-term. If you've been given a Final Order of Removal from an Immigration Judge, for instance, DRO has 6 months to get you removed from the United States. To get somebody removed, the US needs to get approved travel documents from the subject's home country, and in a lot of cases it's difficult or impossible to get those documents. In cases where you have individuals who are deemed to be threats to society or individuals who are likely to abscond from court hearings, you wind up with people in custody way longer than ICE ever intended.
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Post by Keevan_Colton »

I have a serious suspicion that were you to increase funding you would instead find that they simply herd more people like cattle rather than improving conditions in the slightest.
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Post by irishmick79 »

I realized that I might not have clarified that DRO fights with the Bureau of Prisons and US probation as other federal agencies, and that those agencies aren't components of ICE. DRO is pretty low on the food chain in terms of getting prison resources.
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Post by irishmick79 »

Keevan_Colton wrote:I have a serious suspicion that were you to increase funding you would instead find that they simply herd more people like cattle rather than improving conditions in the slightest.
Probably. That's because the administration pushes the enforcement component hard. That might be different under new leadership, but I doubt it. It's easier to make a bigger splash politically as Law Enforcement Tough Guy by arguing that you've increased bed capacity for detained illegals. Never mind that you're neglecting to actually care for people in those all of those new beds.
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Post by Keevan_Colton »

irishmick79 wrote:
Keevan_Colton wrote:I have a serious suspicion that were you to increase funding you would instead find that they simply herd more people like cattle rather than improving conditions in the slightest.
Probably. That's because the administration pushes the enforcement component hard. That might be different under new leadership, but I doubt it. It's easier to make a bigger splash politically as Law Enforcement Tough Guy by arguing that you've increased bed capacity for detained illegals. Never mind that you're neglecting to actually care for people in those all of those new beds.
It isnt really a funding issue as such then, is it?
It's just that the policy decisions are to treat people like animals...
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Post by irishmick79 »

Keevan_Colton wrote:
irishmick79 wrote:
Keevan_Colton wrote:I have a serious suspicion that were you to increase funding you would instead find that they simply herd more people like cattle rather than improving conditions in the slightest.
Probably. That's because the administration pushes the enforcement component hard. That might be different under new leadership, but I doubt it. It's easier to make a bigger splash politically as Law Enforcement Tough Guy by arguing that you've increased bed capacity for detained illegals. Never mind that you're neglecting to actually care for people in those all of those new beds.
It isnt really a funding issue as such then, is it?
It's just that the policy decisions are to treat people like animals...
I don't think there's a general attitude that says we need to treat these people as roughly as possible (well, mabye the Tom Tancrados of the world take this view). It's more of a funding issue because it's an issue created by the lack of a comprehensive policy decision and political attention.
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Post by Alyrium Denryle »

irishmick79 wrote:
Keevan_Colton wrote:
irishmick79 wrote: Probably. That's because the administration pushes the enforcement component hard. That might be different under new leadership, but I doubt it. It's easier to make a bigger splash politically as Law Enforcement Tough Guy by arguing that you've increased bed capacity for detained illegals. Never mind that you're neglecting to actually care for people in those all of those new beds.
It isnt really a funding issue as such then, is it?
It's just that the policy decisions are to treat people like animals...
I don't think there's a general attitude that says we need to treat these people as roughly as possible (well, mabye the Tom Tancrados of the world take this view). It's more of a funding issue because it's an issue created by the lack of a comprehensive policy decision and political attention.
Bullshit. Utter bullshit. The dehumanization goes all the way up. From congress and those others in charge of the purse strings who's attitude is that illegals are sub-human and thus we can keep them what are little better than concentration camps, down the the local administrators who set policy to deny medical care, and fill the facilities past their capacity, to the guards and people who deal with prisoners who can see a person in obvious pain and not care, or use that pain to get them to sign away their legal rights.

This is not a funding issue. If it was just that, you would see them doing the best they can with what little funding they have, they may not be able to provide care, but would at least treat the prisoners with some dignity instead of basically torturing them, this is evil. Plain and simple.
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Post by Darth Wong »

irishmick79 wrote:I think it's hard to fault ICE for trying to conduct these operations without the proper resources.
If they don't have the proper resources, they should scale back their operations rather than ignoring due process and treating people like animals. In fact, you technically have this "Constitution" thing which actually requires that they do so. I hear about the enormous importance of this "Constitution" thing every time someone talks about regulating guns and letting Neo-Nazis spew their filth unfettered, but it seems to go into hiding when we talk about categories of people that the American public really hates.
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Post by irishmick79 »

Darth Wong wrote:
irishmick79 wrote:I think it's hard to fault ICE for trying to conduct these operations without the proper resources.
If they don't have the proper resources, they should scale back their operations rather than ignoring due process and treating people like animals. In fact, you technically have this "Constitution" thing which actually requires that they do so. I hear about the enormous importance of this "Constitution" thing every time someone talks about regulating guns and letting Neo-Nazis spew their filth unfettered, but it seems to go into hiding when we talk about categories of people that the American public really hates.
Completely agree. However, ICE can't exactly tell the administration and DHS leadership to fuck off without consequences. A lot of the desire to expand operations is coming directly from the top, and if the top leadership doesn't have somebody in charge of ICE who will implement their policy decisions, they'll replace them with somebody who will. It's easy to forget that ICE is only 5 years old and in many ways it is still trying to find its identity as a newer investigative agency with a much broader mandate compared to what the old INS had, so the agency culture I think is greatly influenced by the top leadership to a much larger degree than say the FBI or CIA.
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Post by Darth Wong »

irishmick79 wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:
irishmick79 wrote:I think it's hard to fault ICE for trying to conduct these operations without the proper resources.
If they don't have the proper resources, they should scale back their operations rather than ignoring due process and treating people like animals. In fact, you technically have this "Constitution" thing which actually requires that they do so. I hear about the enormous importance of this "Constitution" thing every time someone talks about regulating guns and letting Neo-Nazis spew their filth unfettered, but it seems to go into hiding when we talk about categories of people that the American public really hates.
Completely agree. However, ICE can't exactly tell the administration and DHS leadership to fuck off without consequences. A lot of the desire to expand operations is coming directly from the top, and if the top leadership doesn't have somebody in charge of ICE who will implement their policy decisions, they'll replace them with somebody who will. It's easy to forget that ICE is only 5 years old and in many ways it is still trying to find its identity as a newer investigative agency with a much broader mandate compared to what the old INS had, so the agency culture I think is greatly influenced by the top leadership to a much larger degree than say the FBI or CIA.
So it boils down to the leadership being malevolent, which is exactly what you're trying to argue against. I think that means we can find fault with them.
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Post by Alyrium Denryle »

irishmick79 wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:
irishmick79 wrote:I think it's hard to fault ICE for trying to conduct these operations without the proper resources.
If they don't have the proper resources, they should scale back their operations rather than ignoring due process and treating people like animals. In fact, you technically have this "Constitution" thing which actually requires that they do so. I hear about the enormous importance of this "Constitution" thing every time someone talks about regulating guns and letting Neo-Nazis spew their filth unfettered, but it seems to go into hiding when we talk about categories of people that the American public really hates.
Completely agree. However, ICE can't exactly tell the administration and DHS leadership to fuck off without consequences. A lot of the desire to expand operations is coming directly from the top, and if the top leadership doesn't have somebody in charge of ICE who will implement their policy decisions, they'll replace them with somebody who will. It's easy to forget that ICE is only 5 years old and in many ways it is still trying to find its identity as a newer investigative agency with a much broader mandate compared to what the old INS had, so the agency culture I think is greatly influenced by the top leadership to a much larger degree than say the FBI or CIA.
And? Better to be replaced than have to look people in the eye and treat them like cattle. They have any number of options. They can leave, they can blow the proverbial whistle. But they dont. They keep treating people, US citizens, immigrants, like animals with no due process and cant/wont even attend to the basic needs of the people they have imprisoned without trial. There is no excuse.
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Post by Darth Wong »

That's the thing; the Bush Administration is well-known for sacking people and replacing them with people whose "values" are more "compatible" with their own. In other words, if you're not a racist douchebag who thinks that people suspected of illegal immigration should be treated like animals, they will fire you and replace you with someone who is. Why shouldn't we accuse the ICE leadership of being racist douchebags, then?
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Post by Darth Wong »

By the way ...
SirNitram while arguing with Shep wrote:Your laughable, pathetic speculation on my citizenship status is irrelevent. Yes! Laguna will get to be a citizen before me! I am not 'making an opinion', nor even guessing: I am not going to become a US citizen. But no, you had to get personal. Because this is a vendetta for you, apparently. When you have real rebuttals to the post at hand, and thus are not violating the forum rules? Oh wait, you won't!
Ummm, not to ask silly questions, but shouldn't you automatically become a US citizen by virtue of marrying LadyTevar, who I assume is a US citizen by birth?
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Post by Stargate Nerd »

irishmick79 wrote: That is a funding issue.
I really fail to see how handcuffing someone for hours without food or water is a funding issue.
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Post by Alyrium Denryle »

Darth Wong wrote:By the way ...
SirNitram while arguing with Shep wrote:Your laughable, pathetic speculation on my citizenship status is irrelevent. Yes! Laguna will get to be a citizen before me! I am not 'making an opinion', nor even guessing: I am not going to become a US citizen. But no, you had to get personal. Because this is a vendetta for you, apparently. When you have real rebuttals to the post at hand, and thus are not violating the forum rules? Oh wait, you won't!
Ummm, not to ask silly questions, but shouldn't you automatically become a US citizen by virtue of marrying LadyTevar, who I assume is a US citizen by birth?
No. Permanent residency IIRC becomes easier, and it is harder to deport... I think
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Post by irishmick79 »

Darth Wong wrote:That's the thing; the Bush Administration is well-known for sacking people and replacing them with people whose "values" are more "compatible" with their own. In other words, if you're not a racist douchebag who thinks that people suspected of illegal immigration should be treated like animals, they will fire you and replace you with someone who is. Why shouldn't we accuse the ICE leadership of being racist douchebags, then?
I work with these people. A lot of them absolutely hate what is going on, complain about it, but don't get listened to by the administration. A whole boatload of them find work with other agencies because they get sick of the bullshit. These people are serious law and order types - a lot of them are ex-military, ex-cops who will take orders and do what they're told, but they'll also raise their issues behind closed doors. They don't do it out of racism - they do it they believe they have to enforce the law as it is fucking written because it's their job to. It's not their fault the law makes no fucking sense and congress won't give them a new one that actually works.

I think the ICE leadership makes the best of an intolerable situation. The DRO has at least managed to give detainees a health screening when they get brought into custody, and the in a majority of these cases this is the first screening by any kind of health professional they've ever gotten. To give you an idea of the scope, for FY2007 ICE removed 300,000 individuals. In 34% of all of our detainees we found a chronic condition which needed further treatment. We only spend $100 million on the health care for detainee population whcih can number around 33,000 on any given day. That's double what was budgeted even five years ago.

It's an issue that's been neglected for far too long, and one that is only gradually being improved upon. Improvements are being made, but that doesn't mean the situation is great. The problem is one of neglect by the administration and congress, and the ICE leadership is stuck with trying to work out the mess.
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Post by Enigma »

Darth Wong wrote:By the way ...
SirNitram while arguing with Shep wrote:Your laughable, pathetic speculation on my citizenship status is irrelevent. Yes! Laguna will get to be a citizen before me! I am not 'making an opinion', nor even guessing: I am not going to become a US citizen. But no, you had to get personal. Because this is a vendetta for you, apparently. When you have real rebuttals to the post at hand, and thus are not violating the forum rules? Oh wait, you won't!
Ummm, not to ask silly questions, but shouldn't you automatically become a US citizen by virtue of marrying LadyTevar, who I assume is a US citizen by birth?

No, if that was true then I'd be a U.S. citizen and have been living in Ohio for the past 2 years instead of waiting here in Ottawa filling forms, shelling out money in order to have an interview to be a permanent resident. You'd think it would be easier with a Canadian marrying an American but waiting two years for an interview says otherwise.
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Post by irishmick79 »

Darth Wong wrote:By the way ...
SirNitram while arguing with Shep wrote:Your laughable, pathetic speculation on my citizenship status is irrelevent. Yes! Laguna will get to be a citizen before me! I am not 'making an opinion', nor even guessing: I am not going to become a US citizen. But no, you had to get personal. Because this is a vendetta for you, apparently. When you have real rebuttals to the post at hand, and thus are not violating the forum rules? Oh wait, you won't!
Ummm, not to ask silly questions, but shouldn't you automatically become a US citizen by virtue of marrying LadyTevar, who I assume is a US citizen by birth?
Nope. SirNitram will most likely undergo a 2 year conditional residency while the government conducts an inspection to insure the marriage isn't a fradulent one, and then he'll get a permanent residency. I think you have to be a permanent resident for at least 5 years before being able to apply for naturalization.
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