Negative Dimensions

Enola Straight · Post by **Enola Straight** » 2003-01-28 05:58pm

Einstein showed how four dimensions...length, width, depth, and time...describe a continuum which, when distorted by mass, describe Gravity. This is the Theory of Relativity.

Later, the Kaluza-Klein theory arose, adding a fifth dimension to Relativity to describe Electromagnetism.

Seven dimensions can describe the Weak Nuclear Force, and eleven dimensions can describe the Strong Nuclear Force.

Instead of going to ever higher dimensions, are negative dimensions possible? i.e. minus four dimensions + anti-gravity?

Enola Straight · Post by **Enola Straight** » 2003-01-28 05:59pm

make that "minus four dimensions=antigravity."

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-01-28 06:09pm

thats impossible. a dimension is neither positive nor negative. the onyl reason we use positive numbers is to keep track of the number of directions you can move in a dimension. in one dimension theres only 2 directions (because it has only one measurement, say length, so you have left and right alone that length). you cant have -1 dimension, because a dimension is a measurement of directions (axes). You cant have negative directions. You cant say "neither up down left right forwards or back" because the next two are ana and kata (which are the directions in the 4th spacial direction). Above that is 5. There is no "below 1 dimension" unless you mean zero which is a point.

Malecoda · Post by **Malecoda** » 2003-01-28 06:13pm

4th spatial dimension? My first thought is that it wouldn't be linearly independent of the first 3, thus redundant. Essplain?

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-01-28 06:47pm

Malecoda wrote:4th spatial dimension? My first thought is that it wouldn't be linearly independent of the first 3, thus redundant. Essplain?

There isn't one, that's time the 4th Dimension.

Malecoda · Post by **Malecoda** » 2003-01-28 06:58pm

He's talking abt degrees of freedom in the "4th spatial dimension" which is why I asked what he meant. I'm with you on that one, because of the linear dependence (a fourth spatial direction as we think of it would have to have some axis that's a linear combination of the other 3 axes, thus is not needed to describe anything) but maybe he's taking that into account and trying to communicate something mystical.

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2003-01-28 07:00pm

There are theories and models that use 4 spatial dimentions. Ever see a 4th dimentional 'hyper-cube' rendered? It's the 3D equivalent of drawing a cube on a sheet of paper; two cubes, one inside the other, connected to eachother by the corners (in the same way a cube on paper is 2 squares connected by the corners). So basically, the thing has 8 cubes making up its sides, and all angles are really supposed to be 90 degrees.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-01-28 07:13pm

Darth Utsanomiko wrote:There are theories and models that use 4 spatial dimentions. Ever see a 4th dimentional 'hyper-cube' rendered? It's the 3D equivalent of drawing a cube on a sheet of paper; two cubes, one inside the other, connected to eachother by the corners (in the same way a cube on paper is 2 squares connected by the corners). So basically, the thing has 8 cubes making up its sides, and all angles are really supposed to be 90 degrees.

Yeah, each new dimension has to be 90 degrees to the other. So drawing the fourth must really blow the mind...

Malecoda · Post by **Malecoda** » 2003-01-28 07:14pm

mmm, hmm. yup. so you would write a 4-dimensional spatial equation... how? See, it's different. What I said is true. What you said is true. They're not contradictory, they're merely different. But I noticed that there are no ground forms for 4 spatial dimensions.

Post by **Colonel Olrik** » 2003-01-28 07:25pm

Malecoda wrote:mmm, hmm. yup. so you would write a 4-dimensional spatial equation... how? See, it's different. What I said is true. What you said is true. They're not contradictory, they're merely different. But I noticed that there are no ground forms for 4 spatial dimensions.

I understand that the various versions of the String Theory require more than ten spatial dimensions. They represent them as currently "folded" at quantum level, so they can never interact with the three macroscopical ones. Mathematically, you can have them..

Malecoda · Post by **Malecoda** » 2003-01-28 07:28pm

yup, and since my degree left off right abt here, me shut up now

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-01-28 07:33pm

Malecoda wrote:yup, and since my degree left off right abt here, me shut up now

Lol, I haven't done physics in 2 years at least, but I have a keen mind for learning.

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2003-01-28 07:37pm

Darth Utsanomiko wrote:There are theories and models that use 4 spatial dimentions. Ever see a 4th dimentional 'hyper-cube' rendered? It's the 3D equivalent of drawing a cube on a sheet of paper; two cubes, one inside the other, connected to eachother by the corners (in the same way a cube on paper is 2 squares connected by the corners). So basically, the thing has 8 cubes making up its sides, and all angles are really supposed to be 90 degrees.

I've done some (very) limited work with hypergeometry in precalculus. The really fun thing is the shadow of a hypercube...a cube. Kinda makes you wonder if 3-D objects are merely shadows of 4-D reality.

Malecoda · Post by **Malecoda** » 2003-01-28 07:42pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:
Malecoda wrote:yup, and since my degree left off right abt here, me shut up now
Lol, I haven't done physics in 2 years at least, but I have a keen mind for learning.

We just got a whole lot richer, so I've applied to begin Master's work at UW this fall. Looking forward to it. But christ, I can't even do basic statics anymore. Oh, boy.

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2003-01-28 07:46pm

Malecoda wrote:mmm, hmm. yup. so you would write a 4-dimensional spatial equation... how? See, it's different. What I said is true. What you said is true. They're not contradictory, they're merely different. But I noticed that there are no ground forms for 4 spatial dimensions.

Umm... Length x Width x Height x Something? Unless you're talking about something totally different and I missed the point.

But anywho, that'd mean that a 4D 'cube' with eight cubes of 2cmx2cmx2cm dimensions would have an internal space of... 16cm to the... something. It'd make a lot more sense with some proper 4D terminology, eh?

XaLEv · Post by **XaLEv** » 2003-01-28 07:54pm

Darth Utsanomiko wrote: Umm... Length x Width x Height x Something? Unless you're talking about something totally different and I missed the point.

But anywho, that'd mean that a 4D 'cube' with eight cubes of 2cmx2cmx2cm dimensions would have an internal space of... 16cm to the... something. It'd make a lot more sense with some proper 4D terminology, eh?

2 cm^4, two centimeters tesseracted.

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2003-01-28 08:02pm

XaLEv wrote:
Darth Utsanomiko wrote: Umm... Length x Width x Height x Something? Unless you're talking about something totally different and I missed the point.

But anywho, that'd mean that a 4D 'cube' with eight cubes of 2cmx2cmx2cm dimensions would have an internal space of... 16cm to the... something. It'd make a lot more sense with some proper 4D terminology, eh?
2 cm^4, two centimeters tesseracted.

\/\/H04... D00d.

This it like, the coolest revelation I have even seen. Fourth dimensional terminology. I feel like I've just been with god (or maybe just with a really hot woman, it's hard to tell).

XaLEv · Post by **XaLEv** » 2003-01-29 06:44am

Darth Utsanomiko wrote: \/\/H04... D00d. This it like, the coolest revelation I have even seen. Fourth dimensional terminology. I feel like I've just been with god (or maybe just with a really hot woman, it's hard to tell).

Sou. Fun, ne?

Now, here's a concept for you: Surface volume.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-01-29 06:47am

Did you hear that?

Did you?

That was the sound of my mind being totally blown away...

OMFG...

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2003-01-29 11:07am

XaLEv wrote:
Darth Utsanomiko wrote: \/\/H04... D00d. This it like, the coolest revelation I have even seen. Fourth dimensional terminology. I feel like I've just been with god (or maybe just with a really hot woman, it's hard to tell).
Sou. Fun, ne?

Now, here's a concept for you: Surface volume.

Yeah, I was going to give a measurement for surface volume, but I wasn't sure of the calculation (got 64 cm cubed). Also tried so measure the total surface area of the surface volume, but I got all confusimadated.

So, what's the name of the 4th dimension of measurement, like width or length? If there isn't one, I'd use breadth, since I never use that one normally as it's just a synonym for width. c'mon, there's got to be a name for it.

Enola Straight · Post by **Enola Straight** » 2003-01-29 11:11am

Duration.

A spatial measurement has a beginning and end, and so does a temporal measurement.

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2003-01-29 11:18am

...

You listening to the last couple posts or something? I was reffering to a 4th spacial measurement.

XaLEv · Post by **XaLEv** » 2003-01-29 12:38pm

Darth Utsanomiko wrote:Yeah, I was going to give a measurement for surface volume, but I wasn't sure of the calculation (got 64 cm cubed). Also tried so measure the total surface area of the surface volume, but I got all confusimadated.

Yeah, just add the volumes of the eight cubes together. 64 cubic cenitmeters is right. I guess the surface area would be 192 cm^2.

So, what's the name of the 4th dimension of measurement, like width or length? If there isn't one, I'd use breadth, since I never use that one normally as it's just a synonym for width. c'mon, there's got to be a name for it.

There's none that I know of. I suppose breadth is as good as any.

Sektor31 · Post by **Sektor31** » 2003-01-29 12:41pm

Einstein said that the 4th dimension is spacetime, not just time.

I'd say the 4th dimension is a direct combination of length, width, and height. The exact terminology...bleh, I want to know that too.

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2003-01-29 12:42pm

XaLEv wrote:
Darth Utsanomiko wrote: \/\/H04... D00d. This it like, the coolest revelation I have even seen. Fourth dimensional terminology. I feel like I've just been with god (or maybe just with a really hot woman, it's hard to tell).
Sou. Fun, ne?

Now, here's a concept for you: Surface volume.

*twitchtwitch*

Surface...volume...?

*twitch*