Traviss' Clone Wars novel questions

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2008-08-20 03:36am

Not Qui-Gon. Jango had him kill some chick Padawan of his who was with him at Gallidran. She had two curved-hilt red lightsabers, which he later gave to Asajj Ventress. Kamari Vosa I think was her name.

Sidewinder · Post by **Sidewinder** » 2008-08-20 03:36am

Darksider wrote:Given his aristocratic nature, it's pretty much a given that he would find the idea of beheading a man in front of his ten-year old to be distasteful. the look on his face seems to indicate his surprise at a member of the jedi council stooping so low. Almost as if he viewed fighting his hired goon to be beneath a man of windu's status

I interpreted Dooku's expression as, "Oh, I just lost a very useful pawn in my schemes. What a pity."

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2008-08-20 06:49am

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Not Qui-Gon. Jango had him kill some chick Padawan of his who was with him at Gallidran. She had two curved-hilt red lightsabers, which he later gave to Asajj Ventress. Kamari Vosa I think was her name.

You are correct. That's the plot of Star Wars: Bounty Hunter (an alright video game). Palpatine disapproves of Vosa's cult and at the same time needs a decent donor for the clone army. So Dooku puts a massive Bounty on Vossa's head and hire Jango, who collects for the clone program.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2008-08-20 08:49am

I forgot to mention that later on Fett is used as the yardstick for Kenobi's combat ability.

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2008-08-20 09:15am

Ender wrote:I forgot to mention that later on Fett is used as the yardstick for Kenobi's combat ability.

Oh godsss...
Please, at least tell me that it's in Kenobi's favour...

Sidewinder · Post by **Sidewinder** » 2008-08-20 02:30pm

Ender wrote:I forgot to mention that later on Fett is used as the yardstick for Kenobi's combat ability.

It can work (sort of) if you rate a Jedi's combat ability based on how many clonetroopers (or Mandalorians) it would take to kill a lone but alert Jedi. It's not perfect (the kill ratios used in the Vietnam War springs to mind), but it's useful if you need an estimate RIGHT THE FUCK NOW.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2008-08-20 03:15pm

The line is something like "He isn't invincible. He couldn't take Fett." I alredy packed the piece of crap so I can't clarify.

Patrick Ogaard · Post by **Patrick Ogaard** » 2008-08-20 03:22pm

Sidewinder wrote:
Ender wrote:I forgot to mention that later on Fett is used as the yardstick for Kenobi's combat ability.
It can work (sort of) if you rate a Jedi's combat ability based on how many clonetroopers (or Mandalorians) it would take to kill a lone but alert Jedi. It's not perfect (the kill ratios used in the Vietnam War springs to mind), but it's useful if you need an estimate RIGHT THE FUCK NOW.

Maybe something like this?

Youngling = 1-10 fetts
Padawan = 1-10 dekafetts
Knight = 1-10 hectofetts
Typical Master = 1+ kilofetts
Master Yoda = 3 megafetts
Mace Windu = 2 gigafetts

Darksider · Post by **Darksider** » 2008-08-20 03:26pm

Ender wrote:The line is something like "He isn't invincible. He couldn't take Fett." I alredy packed the piece of crap so I can't clarify.

What fucking movie was that bitch watching? Fett only survived the fight with all his limbs intact because his first instinct was to run away with his jetpack. and if his son hadn't come to his aid with Slave I's blasters, he'd have been pretty much screwed. This is with Obi-wan restraining himself because he want's fett alive.

I am getting so sick of this shit. I know it won't do any good, but i'm e-mailing someone at lucasfilm about this crap. maybe it'll make me feel better.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2008-08-20 04:22pm

Ender wrote:The line is something like "He isn't invincible. He couldn't take Fett." I alredy packed the piece of crap so I can't clarify.

Uh, kicking the ass of someone covered in sealed combat body armor and armed to teeth with a dozen weapons, equipped with the mobility and "high ground" advantage of a jetback, heavy weaponry (rocket), and fire support (Slave fucking One, a goddamn starship!) while armed only with homespun monk robes and a sword hardly implies parity. Obi-Wan could've survived the drop had Fett not had his barbed forearm blade; Fett wouldn't have. And of course the man in question is also restrained by sentimentals, a mission objective of live capture, and a silly preference for formal combat. If he were a Sith, he would've just pinched a blood vessel in his neck and made him pass out or nerve in his spine to paralyze him, or prevented his breathing until he passed out; fuck the long-term consequences.

Jim Raynor · Post by **Jim Raynor** » 2008-08-20 06:28pm

Ender wrote:The line is something like "He isn't invincible. He couldn't take Fett." I alredy packed the piece of crap so I can't clarify.

Wow Traviss does it again!

Somebody tell this bitch to watch AOTC and ROTJ, without fast forwarding past the parts where her precious Fetts get their asses kicked by Obi-Wan, Mace, Luke, and a blind man.

Sidewinder · Post by **Sidewinder** » 2008-08-20 11:57pm

Has Traviss ever explained WHY she hates the Jedi in ANYTHING, e.g., the author's notes at the end of a book, an interview on how it feels to contribute to the 'Star Wars' universe, etc.? I can understand a woman (or gay man) wanking Fett because the actor who portrays him is a hunk, but why the hatred towards Jedi? Ewan McGregor bullied her in high school? Mace Windu is black, and Traviss is a racist? David Brin corrupted her with "Jedi=nobility=slavemasters" bullshit?

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2008-08-21 12:05am

Sidewinder wrote:Has Traviss ever explained WHY she hates the Jedi in ANYTHING, e.g., the author's notes at the end of a book, an interview on how it feels to contribute to the 'Star Wars' universe, etc.? I can understand a woman (or gay man) wanking Fett because the actor who portrays him is a hunk, but why the hatred towards Jedi? Ewan McGregor bullied her in high school? Mace Windu is black, and Traviss is a racist? David Brin corrupted her with "Jedi=nobility=slavemasters" bullshit?

She considers Mando's to be super elite manly men, and the Jedi are spoon bending liars who are in league with Palpatine.

Logic has never been a strong point to her particular hatred, and never will be.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2008-08-21 12:48am

Given the way Traviss seems to write, characters largely seem to be (for her) vehicles to espouse her ideals and beliefs and positions on matters. This is probably why they seem so out of character for star wars characters - they are always written in the context of how she thinks on the issues, rather than what they might think. Mandalorians seem to represent some bizarre "ideal" of hers, which is why they're held up to be so great and wonderful and can do everything (They're super soldiers, perfect family members, miners and farmers, and can train jedi.) And its also why she has Dooku sounding like he does - he's just yet another mouthpiece to espouse her anti-jedi viewpoints (like most of the other "Force users who aren't jedi, or who are jedi that basically abandon the order" she writes in.)

I think this is also why she commonly tries to "inject" real life into Star Wars so often (the constant 9/11 and similar referencese, for example.)

This also is probably why she seems to consistently ignore other sources - though if she has a circle fo close fans (some of the same who protect her perhaps?) who influence her writing, it wouldn't surprise me. I really have to wonder what time Allston and Denning had collaborating with her, since she seems to have this penchant to go off on her own tangents irrespective to the overall plotlines (As demonstrated in LOTF). Were they as annoyed by her mandalorian side-trips as others were?

Peptuck · Post by **Peptuck** » 2008-08-21 12:53am

Sidewinder wrote:Has Traviss ever explained WHY she hates the Jedi in ANYTHING, e.g., the author's notes at the end of a book, an interview on how it feels to contribute to the 'Star Wars' universe, etc.? I can understand a woman (or gay man) wanking Fett because the actor who portrays him is a hunk, but why the hatred towards Jedi? Ewan McGregor bullied her in high school? Mace Windu is black, and Traviss is a racist? David Brin corrupted her with "Jedi=nobility=slavemasters" bullshit?

According to her commentary during an interview about the Gears of War novel she's writing, she said that when she was introduced to the Star Wars suniverse, the Jedi just came off to her as a morally corrupt self-righteous bunch of presumptous dicks who think they rule the galaxy. In nicer terms, of course, but she got a bad first impression and then proceeded to blow it all out of proportion while making the Ultra-Wank Mandalorians.

EDIT: Linky.

Specifically....

“If you come to a universe cold, not as a fan or even as someone who knows anything about it at all, you tend to see a very different world,” said Travis. “I knew bugger all about Star Wars when I was asked to write it, and the first thing that struck me was that the Jedi were pretty despicable on the ethics front, and had I been interviewing them I’d have had some hardball questions to ask. So that was the emotional spark I grabbed hold of and used. From that one moment of ‘God, what a bunch of master-race hypocrites...’ came a whole series. I treated it as a real scenario, not a kids’ science fantasy with wizards, and examined it just as I would have done had I still been a reporter. I don’t know how else to tell a story, actually. It’s much more about posing questions than giving answers.”

Sidewinder · Post by **Sidewinder** » 2008-08-21 01:10am

Traviss must have sucked ass as a reporter, considering how little research she did before writing a story.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2008-08-21 01:21am

The real interesting part is that Hard Contact had a Jedi who blew off the rules to do what is right... and she has her characters shit on him for it. The guys just can't win with her.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2008-08-21 01:27am

She also comes off as sounding alot like David Brin when he was ranting about Star Wars (and covered in Mike's Hate Mail page) - they seem to share similar attitudes about the Jedi, at least.

Mind you, I don't mind in the least that an author might want to portray Jedi as not being wholly "good guys" or having flaws or problems - that was indeed an underlying theme in the prequels, and meshed perfectly. Hard Contact handled it fine. Triple Zero was when it started to get annoying, and only really at the end (I always kinda felt like Skirata came off as a real asshole at the end of the novel, and was rather out of line in demanding that the baby must be Mandalorina. In retrospect, you can see alot of the seeds of what would become major themes in her later works there too - a "stupid" Jedi tagging along with the big bad Mando types, made to feel inferior by the clearly Superior Mandalorian Way, etc.)

Traviss basically took the "Jedi are EVVILL" concept (among other concepts) too far in her works and now we're left with things that basically read like a Terry Goodkind novel.

Fingolfin_Noldor · Post by **Fingolfin_Noldor** » 2008-08-21 01:37am

I like how she selectively avoids all the times when the Mandalorians BDZed whole planets in the last Mandalorian war, and still gets off with the "honorable Mandalorian".

Yeah, real honorable, and they got their asses kicked before. TWICE

Qwerty 42 · Post by **Qwerty 42** » 2008-08-21 02:20am

Patrick Ogaard wrote:
Sidewinder wrote:
Ender wrote:I forgot to mention that later on Fett is used as the yardstick for Kenobi's combat ability.
It can work (sort of) if you rate a Jedi's combat ability based on how many clonetroopers (or Mandalorians) it would take to kill a lone but alert Jedi. It's not perfect (the kill ratios used in the Vietnam War springs to mind), but it's useful if you need an estimate RIGHT THE FUCK NOW.
Maybe something like this?

Youngling = 1-10 fetts
Padawan = 1-10 dekafetts
Knight = 1-10 hectofetts
Typical Master = 1+ kilofetts
Master Yoda = 3 megafetts
Mace Windu = 2 gigafetts

Thank you for this.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2008-08-21 02:22am

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:I like how she selectively avoids all the times when the Mandalorians BDZed whole planets in the last Mandalorian war, and still gets off with the "honorable Mandalorian".

Yeah, real honorable, and they got their asses kicked before. TWICE

Those were honorable BDZs by the brave Mandoas!!!

After a while it is easy to see where her small mind will lead to.

Also for another lovable tidbit of her nuttiness, there's always her off hand math she did by her Mary Sue insert historian on how much Iron there was in the SW galaxy.

Kartr_Kana · Post by **Kartr_Kana** » 2008-08-21 07:37am

I used to like Boba Fett and the Mandalorians. Still do I just ignore every "Travessity" that's written about them these days. I'll stick with KotOR and Slave Ship thank you very much

Peptuck · Post by **Peptuck** » 2008-08-21 07:58am

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:I like how she selectively avoids all the times when the Mandalorians BDZed whole planets in the last Mandalorian war, and still gets off with the "honorable Mandalorian".

Yeah, real honorable, and they got their asses kicked before. TWICE

By Jedi, no less. Or, well, a bemasked Sith-Jedi-something-or-other.

Really, its hard to feel sympathetic for the Mandos when you've got Canderous Ordo happily telling you how he'd vaporize entire cities to destroy single military bases. I mean, I know we were planning on doing that in the Cold War with the Soviets, but we weren't as skippy about it as he was.

Darth Hoth · Post by **Darth Hoth** » 2008-08-21 09:10am

Ender wrote:
Travissty wrote:The snow had melted; the dead were buried. But he couldn't erase Jango Fett's face, the face of a man back from the living death of a slavery that Dooku had delivered him into, etched with all the bitter lines of surviving only to have his moment of justice. It was always the last image to leave Dooku. It wasn't just the millions of troops cloned from Fett that made forgetting impossible. It was that Fett hadn't lived to see the downfall of the Jedi. Fett's motive for sharing - aiding - Dooku's ambition hadn't been greed, he realized, but the same understanding that the Jedi Order was a destructive, destabilizing cabal.

The Jedi had killed Fett in the end. But most of him seemed to have died at Galidraan anyway, and only his insatiable hunger for justice had kept that formidable body moving.

We'll have our day, Fett.

Dooku opened the comlink again, this time to the monastery on Teth. It was time for the next stage of the operation.

"Ventress," he said. "Ventress, is the Huttlet all right? Bring me up to speed."

Jesus Christ in Heaven. This is Traviss, all right. Just conveniently "forgetting" that Dooku is an elitist prick who would have felt the loss of a henchman about as hard someone blowing up one of his Star Destroyers. But alas, now it was a glorious Mandalorian in this case . . . Not for the first time, I find myself asking if LFL are even trying anymore. Their "quality control" certainly cannot extend beyond spellchecking. Were I a conspiracy nut, I would say "Evil" has ordered them to wreck the EU on purpose, so that nothing can be said to have been better than his prequels.

Why are all the good, old franchises dying out nowadays? SW mostly pours out shit, and 40k is well on its way down that road.

Darth Hoth · Post by **Darth Hoth** » 2008-08-21 09:14am

Illuminatus Primus wrote:If he were a Sith, he would've just pinched a blood vessel in his neck and made him pass out or nerve in his spine to paralyze him, or prevented his breathing until he passed out; fuck the long-term consequences.

So how about Fett fighting two Dark Jedi and a squad of Darktroopers to a standstill in Dark Empire II, with them being scared of the uberduper gadget-gizmos in his venerable armour? Yet more wank for him?