O-Wing & C-Wing

IRG CommandoJoe · Post by **IRG CommandoJoe** » 2003-01-27 10:12pm

I think I like that one better...but I can't compare it to all of the other angles like in the other picture.

Post by **Rob Wilson** » 2003-01-27 10:16pm

Kenny_10_Bellys wrote:
I realise it's not your vision and I'll dump it right away if you wish, it's just more the direction I would have gone, and it can't hurt to let you see it.

Why on earth would you dump it? You did all the hard work! Anyway it does look good (did you lenghten the fuselage there?), and though for roll control they would be useless at that size, they do fit in better than I thought they would (this is why having others beside me comment is a good thing

) . I say keep them, but maybe lose the extra length.

[EDIT : Kenny, whatever you do, don't lose this pic. I just woke up with a brainwave. The actual ship won't be this long or have such large fins(if any). But I woke up with the whole ship history just formed in my head, and the above pic plays a role.

I'll post it tomorrow night - you don't have to wait obviously as it won't affect the ship itself. Cheers]

Kenny_10_Bellys · Post by **Kenny_10_Bellys** » 2003-01-28 04:45am

All I did was add a couple of metres to the fuseage forward of the wing and slap on 4 quick fins, it took 2 minutes to do.

I still have the original version safely tucked away, along with a few of the older ones as backup in case I screw up something so bad I can't fix it. It also helps when someone nicks yer mesh and you have to try and prove you made the damn thing in the first place, the original reason I ended up registering with this board in the first place.

So, am I developing this one or the original now? I can do somewhat better 'etheric rudders' as the books call them, they don't take long at all, it's just that any image maps I make for weathering, markings, etc are tailor made to fit as exactly as possible. I'll just continue with the original until I here otherwise.

Post by **Dalton** » 2003-01-28 05:07am

Kenny_10_Bellys wrote:All I did was add a couple of metres to the fuseage forward of the wing and slap on 4 quick fins, it took 2 minutes to do. I still have the original version safely tucked away, along with a few of the older ones as backup in case I screw up something so bad I can't fix it. It also helps when someone nicks yer mesh and you have to try and prove you made the damn thing in the first place, the original reason I ended up registering with this board in the first place.

You still stuck on that? I don't think Crix did it intentionally, unless you know something I don't.

Kenny_10_Bellys · Post by **Kenny_10_Bellys** » 2003-01-28 05:32am

Still stuck on that? It takes fucking days of work to make these things, then someone slaps a wing on it and calls it 'all my own work' and tries to brazen it out when confronted with the evidence. Yes I'm 'still stuck on that'. Bare in mind the last guy I caught doing this had downloaded half the models from my site and stuck them on Turbosquid for between $20 to $80 dollars EACH! 17 models at an average of $50 a download is enough to piss anyone off I think, certainly the site and 2 other artists thought so, they sued the bastard. If I'd had the money, I would have too.

Imagine if you'd spent 50 hours making something, then someone comes along and plants a flag in it and claims they did it, not you, then challenges you to prove it. It's the bane of 3D guys everywhere, and as Enlightenment said previously it's heavily frowned upon everywhere, on boards and in the courts. If I find it happening now, I get stuck in.

Look at the model, his IS mine with a few bits added and a change of colour. The same panels in exactly the same places, even down to the number and angle of the slats in the engine vents. That's not inspired by mine, it IS mine with a few modifications. Kitbashes are ok when the guy openly admits it, but Crix didn't and MUST know he didn't make that model himself, no one's that dumb. Even if it came to him with no readme file, he could say it's based on an old model he found. I politely pointed it out and he tried to brazen it out, and I can't help but notice that he went silent when I told him I could prove I made it years ago. Then again, he may be trying to make WIP models of it right now to prove his point...

Post by **Dalton** » 2003-01-28 05:51am

Kenny_10_Bellys wrote:Still stuck on that? It takes fucking days of work to make these things, then someone slaps a wing on it and calls it 'all my own work' and tries to brazen it out when confronted with the evidence. Yes I'm 'still stuck on that'. Bare in mind the last guy I caught doing this had downloaded half the models from my site and stuck them on Turbosquid for between $20 to $80 dollars EACH! 17 models at an average of $50 a download is enough to piss anyone off I think, certainly the site and 2 other artists thought so, they sued the bastard. If I'd had the money, I would have too.

Imagine if you'd spent 50 hours making something, then someone comes along and plants a flag in it and claims they did it, not you, then challenges you to prove it. It's the bane of 3D guys everywhere, and as Enlightenment said previously it's heavily frowned upon everywhere, on boards and in the courts. If I find it happening now, I get stuck in.

Look at the model, his IS mine with a few bits added and a change of colour. The same panels in exactly the same places, even down to the number and angle of the slats in the engine vents. That's not inspired by mine, it IS mine with a few modifications. Kitbashes are ok when the guy openly admits it, but Crix didn't and MUST know he didn't make that model himself, no one's that dumb. Even if it came to him with no readme file, he could say it's based on an old model he found. I politely pointed it out and he tried to brazen it out, and I can't help but notice that he went silent when I told him I could prove I made it years ago. Then again, he may be trying to make WIP models of it right now to prove his point...

I apologize. I wasn't paying much attention to what occured, and to what extent. Please forgive me.

Kenny_10_Bellys · Post by **Kenny_10_Bellys** » 2003-01-28 08:24am

No sweat Dalton, it's not your fault or problem, it just pisses me off bigtime now. I let it drop but when someone prods me on this subject I go off like a grenade, I'm like that I guess, Sorry.

By the way, I assume that's a Jay and Silent Bob avatar you got there, where'd you get it?

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2003-01-28 11:07am

My take, if Rob and Kenny_10_Belly do not mind. Both are real nice and Kenny, your a fucking genius.

The landing strunts: well, the whole ship looks like it is ass heavy so the idea of a front strut is, IMHO, not necessary. I think it would still look balanced with two to four strunt in the back end under the engines. (the humps on the rolebar are the engines, right?)

Fins: I really like the fins, it gives it more diamention IMO. For landing, the bottom could fold to allow clearence for the landing struts or perhaps the struts are long enough already so the fins don't have to fold.

The nose: I agree, the nose is lacking something. A set of conards could help. Rob, you already expressed that the small fins in the back look good but wouldn't do the job of atmosphereic control. Adding conards would augment the rear fins and add that "something" to the nose. If not, then some bulge or small turret for a sensor or the like.

Color: Hope you don't mind, but I really liked the yellow scheme myself. I don't know what you have in mind for the design history on the ship, Rob. But it does look like it might be an older design so a Rebel neutral scheme just seems right.

Function: Do you have an idea about its function, Rob? It looks like it would be a heavy assualt "bomber" or maybe even a gunship/missleboat. A good take on the large v small version could be; the large one is a heavy duty, long range attack fighter while the smaller one was designed for local work. More or less just a difference in weapons payload.

Anyway, looks really great and it was a good idea. Rock on.

Kenny_10_Bellys · Post by **Kenny_10_Bellys** » 2003-01-28 11:19am

I was thinking that if we keep the fins, the lower fins will be over the actual land gear door and will swing out of the way when the doors open. To be honest I'm having trouble coming up with LG that doesn't look too flimsy to hold such a heavy-looking design. More experimentation needed when I get the chance.

Do you mean 'canards', the little wings/fins forward of the main wings on aircraft? I think they'd spoil the look to be honest, this isn't really a conventional aircraft as such, it's using advanced field technologies for manoeuvering and thrust, not aerofoils. If you look at the X-wing it has that huge nose and nothing up front, just the mass of wings and cockpit at the rear. I think maybe some detailing and sensors instead, nothing too dramatic.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2003-01-28 12:02pm

I wasn't thinking to dramatic with the 'canards' (sorry, I'm a bad speller) but more of a extension of the rim around the nose to add some dimension. But it was just a suggestion.

Landing gear, hmmmm, how about one burly set towards the front of the engines and a smaller set towards the end of the engines. On top of that, perhaps, have one set extend towards the side of the ship while the other extends directly underneath the ship......

Anyway, just some suggestions.

Post by **Rob Wilson** » 2003-01-28 05:44pm

Kenny_10_Bellys wrote:All I did was add a couple of metres to the fuseage forward of the wing and slap on 4 quick fins, it took 2 minutes to do. I still have the original version safely tucked away, along with a few of the older ones as backup in case I screw up something so bad I can't fix it. It also helps when someone nicks yer mesh and you have to try and prove you made the damn thing in the first place, the original reason I ended up registering with this board in the first place.

So, am I developing this one or the original now? I can do somewhat better 'etheric rudders' as the books call them, they don't take long at all, it's just that any image maps I make for weathering, markings, etc are tailor made to fit as exactly as possible. I'll just continue with the original until I here otherwise.

Go ahead with the original, the picture you provided is now the WM-1T. Here's the history thing I woke up with this morning, comments from all, welcomed and asked for.

*NOTES : I'm using PNR for Pre New Republic, anyon know the real year designators? The Rowil and Kenmit are mine and Kenny's names in Basic (though Kenny Mitchell should be Kemit, but I thought it looked and sounded too much like Kermit

). WM is obviously Wilson - Mitchell). There is anther denizen named.

DESIGNATION : WM-1B (O-wing)

PILOT NICKNAME : Ring

MANUFACTURER : Rowil & Kenmit Coachworks

ROLE : Air/Space Superiority Fighter

CREW : 1 pilot + 1 R3 Astromech.

WEAPONS : 2x taim & Bak Kx7 Laser Cannons, 2x ArMek SW-2 Ion Blasters, 1x Krupx MG7 Proton Torpedo launcher (6 Torpedo's), 1x Blastech Ax-108 Blaster cannon (turreted).

HYPERDRIVE RATING : Class 1

ACCELERATION : [Anyone want to give me a feasible SW figure in G's?)

ENGINES : 4X Custom R&K "Speedlight" VBT-1200. plus 8x Custom R&K ULR 320 Repulsorlifts fitted around wing.

HISTORY : There are many apocryphal stories of how this fighter started as a rich man's toy that came good, but the truth is much more interesting than that. In 42PNR Palmer Rowil Jnr succeeded his ailing father as the President of Rowil & Kenmit Coachworks, perhaps the Old Republics most exclusive luxury Landspeeder and custom "floating home" builder, and saw an opportunity to fulfill a life-long dream. He had been brought up on his Uncles stories of flying Fightercraft acroos the warzones of the Galaxy and had wanted to be a fighter pilot himself, however the fact he would have to take over the family business meant that the best he could accomplish was a civilian pilots licence. With the company no his, he set forth to build a Fighter that pilots would want to fly and on top of that there was a financial reason.

Though the sales of their luxury items were strong, thre was still a need for a high volume, low price stable commodity, with a guarenteed aftersales market to ensure a constant flow of credits regardless of economic vageries.

The Design and build phase of the fighter showed both the style and pragmatism of the fighters conception; the rounded body, sculpted wing elements, and artistically designed Torpedo launcher exit were clear indicators that the fabled Kenmit Design house was fully involved in the ships look, whilst the decision to simply source all electronics and weapons for In-house tuning and optomisation showed that the costs were to be kept down. Having a coachworks build a fighter also showed some "idiosyncracies" in ship design and engineering, to put it mildly. The remit to create a nimble, acrobatic "pilot's fighter", plus enabling it to have formidable Atmospheric and Space capabilities, all in a fighter that was kept small to present the smallest possible target profile, meant that the conventional book on Fighter engineering went sailing out the window at the start of the project.

When first released to the eye's of the Military, specialist and enthusiast press there were some very negative reviews, one article describing it as "A Landspeeder rammed forcefully into an Engine and weapons harness, this fancifully designed, bad idea just will not fly from the hardened Military pilots viewpoint." , others questioned the need for so many repulsorlifts and others said it was simply too small. This lukewarm reception however did not hurt initial sales. Afterall, what well to-do government could say no to having an R&K Fighter in its ceremonial squadrons (especially at this low price point)?

There is a good chance that the enterprise would have died there (with not enough volume sales, the WM-1 would have been discontinued as a failed experiment, considering its economic function), if not for the attacks on Relnis, 6 months after sales started.

A large Hutt syndicate had tried to get too big for its slimetrails and had launched a massive offensive against the percieved weak military of Relnis, starting off with an ambush against the Presidential Yacht and its ceremonial guard squadron. The attack was launched with z-95's outnumbering the guard squadron 2-1, yet the attack had been made in-atmosphere playing to the WM-1's advantage. Overconfidence on the part of the mercenaries meant that they launched their initial torpedo volley only just outside Cannon range, and so were well within retailation range when the rear guns of the guards fighters performed their designed duties properly and destroyed the incoming torpedo's for the loss of only 1 Fighter. The superior turning circle and the ability for slight off-axis aiming of the main Cannons (something not seen again until the A-wing some 35 years later) meant that soon the z-95's were the ones outnumbered and only 1 was able to escape. The story was the talk of the military community and soon R&K coachworks were inundated with requests for evaluation models by Governments galaxywide.

With future sales assured, the company could now turn it's attention to aftersales provision and upgrade revisions.

And in the last regard, the glaring problem with the ships design came to the fore, the WM-1 was horribly damage intolerant! Because of her size and small internal dimensions all the electronics gear was very close to one another, this meant that an overtaxed shield generator fusing could lead to many nearby components being damaged, this would in turn affect other components, and soon the whole fighter would be in trouble due to the vast power generator system taking up the bulk of the internal volume. The WM-1A was the first answer to this, with better internal bulkhead seperation of the various systems, and the rear of the vessel (containing the hyperdrive motivator) being entirely seperated from the rest by a massive bulkhead, and its connections to the cockpit and astromech being carried in armoured conduits. The problems of keeping everything cool (especially in-atmosphere) meant that these measures could only be taken so far.

The next most prevalent problem was training new pilots how to fly it, experienced pilots were quick to adapt to the highly responsive fighter, but new recruits were constantly getting into trouble, therefore the construction of a dedicated trainer craft was started (an embarrassing first-time builders omission on R&K's part), the WM-1T.

Lastly, the WM-1B was the final upgrade, swapping out the then standard R2 astromech, for a dedicated R3 model commissioned by R&K, many initially thought this last upgrade a moneygrabbing move on the builders part, until reviews of the difference in performance and ease of maintenance began to circulate. Indeed so popular was this upgrade in the end, that the only examples of the original WM-1 and WM-1A are in R&K's product museum and a very few private collections, all others being refitted to the new standard.

Other fixes were a built-in retractable ladder for the pilot and small hand/foot holds molded into the fuselage with covers over them in flight. The design of the R3, with it's externally mounted arms and articulated legs meant that with a second built-in ladder and concealed hand/foot holds it too could mount the ship without external equipment. this made it even easier to operate out of temorary bases or indeed for those buyers without the funds to stretch to specialist equipment. Also more powerful sensors were mounted in an small blister under the nose.

The WM-1E and the WM-1R are both covered in the variants section below, though both may be considered offshoots of the "T" variant.

The start of the Clone Wars saw the "Ring" come into it's own on the battlefield, ruling the Air and giving as good as it got in Space. In the CAS role, the groundhugging abilities made it a favourite with the pilots, and it's compartively overpowered epons load out made it a terror for enemy ground forces - even the rear gun, underpowered for tackling other fighters, was powerful enough to chew up ground troops. Indeed many whole squadrons worth were purchaced by the Old Republic Senate to supplement it's Armed Forces, the speculation in the Specialist press was that the Republic would buy the WM-1B as it's standard fighter, the surprise when Sienar Fleet Systems was given a supply contract was very evident (though in hindsight it's now obvious why this contract was given), The unpopular, unsheilded TIE only fully replacing the "Ring" in service when an Imperial decree was issued to that effect.

Though not the best selling fighter by far (the T-65 for instance outnumbers the WM-1B by some 4-1 in it's 12 years of sales), the 45 year old fighter is still in the service of many governments throughout the New Republic, add it's impressive combat records and the continued popularity of it on the Space-show circuit and this idiosyncratic little fighter can be considered to have fulfilled its remit in full (aftersale of WM-1B parts is still the stable economic foundation of R&K's business allowing more experimentation in thier primary Landspeeder market).

It is a telling comment, that many ex-imperial and Allaince pilots looking for Civil employment are turning to Governments and groups that operate "Rings" first, then anyone else afterwards, her reputation as a "pilots Fighter" has certainly been proven.

VARIANTS :
WM-1T; The difficulty of controlling this must reactive of fighter lead to th creation of the Trainer variant (though embarrassingly late in the day), which again displayed R&K's idiosyncratic approach to Fighter design. Whereas most trainers would have a second cockpit mounted for an instructor with it's own canopy, the rush to produce the "T" lead to a novel answer - an enclosed cockpit mounted in a fuselage extension with access being provided by a hatch in place of the usual Astromech slot! The Instructor was surrounded by holo-displays and with his second controls could take command of the fighter regardless of the recriuts inputs. Many instructors have stated they prefer this set-up as they can concentrate on the readouts and performnce of the recriut without any distractions. The "T" also has reduced power to it's weapons and engines. The most obvoius identifier of the "T" is it's relatively large fins on the engines.

These Aelirons (derisively described as "Stabilisers" or "training wheels" by experienced pilots) are there to make the ship less responsive and more controllable for the novice pilot, they are designed to be removable, allowing the pilot to gradually gain more control with smaller fins and then no fins.

PILOT NICKNAME: Teething Ring

WM-1E; This offshoot was another example of R&K filling a void in hindsight. The less economically powerful Governments had taken to refitting "T"'s to an Electronic Warfare and AWAC's role with the instructor space being refitted as an EWO cockpit with adhoc Sensor Jamming and Longrange Sensor pods being fitted on any available space, all this was cheaper than buying the expensive larger dedicated craft on the market. Seeing an opening, R&K launched the "E", with properly installed EWO controls, and the two Weapons pods being replaced with Teardrop containers (inside which were properly tuned Sensor packs and Jammers), with the power generator being correctly set for the "clean" feed such equipment demands.

Offered as a trade-in for the "homemade" ones and offered to other governments at a small increase over the "T" price point, they were quickly snapped up, and again the aftersales were a tremendous boost to the coffers of R&K. the Fins were not included in the "E". The divergence of power from the engines to the Jammers and Sensors meant a slower speed and acceleration for this variant, and led to Fighter pilots using a play on the O-wing name to refer to the "E".

PILOT NICKNAME: Slow-Wing

WM-1R; Concurrent to the "E", the juryrigged efforts of some Governments to make a Recce Craft from a "T" led R&K to make the "R" variant. Again Proper controls were fitted into the rear cockpit and the Port weapons pod was replaced with a dedicated scouting suite, the designers at Kenmit creating a mix of ESM mast housings and Camera pods that closely mimiced the layout of the weapons pod it was replacing. The only real visual identifier to an "R" at distance is the lack of an Astromech behind the cockpit, though upclose the longer fuselage is very evident.

PILOT NICKNAME: ? (any suggestions?)

In the case of all these variants a stripped down Astromech brain unit is used for Hyperspace calcs and the more usual repair and pilot aid duties of a standard astromech are absent as none are suposed to be in combat at all (or in the "R"'s case, not for any real period of time.)

R3 ASTROMECH : The then unprecedented move of commissioning a specialised Astromech for a specific fighter was at first met with suspicion. After all the R2 unit was both reliable and well-proven, so the need for the R3 was questioned repeatedly - until people noticed the differences it made to the fighters operation. Until then, a specialist crane was needed to place an R2 unit into a fighter, or the R2 had to be abe to get to underneath the fighter for onboard systems to retrieve it. The inclusion of hard pointed arms and articulated legs meant that the R3 could mount the fighter on it's own. It also freed up space internally (both in the droid and the fighter) so the drod could have more of the specialised arms and tools the astromechs are famous for. Without the need for jack-of-all-trades equipment fit, and carrying only the tools needed plus being designed to operate as closely as possible with the fighters systems, the R3 was able to better manage the maintenance or repairs of the "Ring". So integral to the ships function are they, that pilots will swear blind, that the ship handles differently with a different R3 in it, this has led to R3's very rarely getting memory wipes, to keep the original characteristics of fighter handling. There may be some truth in this, as the R3 and the ships computers have an unparalleled depth of inter-connection by design.

Often nicknamed "Stubby" or "Junior", the R3's are probably as well loved by their ships pilots as the R2's are by X and Y-wing pilots.

FAMOUS COLOUR SCHEME'S AND NOSE ART:
The most famous colour scheme is that of the Relnis Ceremonial Squadron (Black Warriors), the overall black body with Silver highlights on wing edges and Stripes on the Engines, this mimicry of their ancient warrior warpaint is very distinctive, and the discrete insignia fits the overall design aethetic of the "Ring". So much so, that R&K's product museum has a WM-1 in these colours on display as it's only example of the early variant.

The most documented colour scheme would have to be the Sand coloured "Rings" used by the Old Republic. The colouration shows off the fighter in a very simple manner, making the weapons the focus of the design - Palmer Rowil Jnr had a "Ring" in this colour scheme as his own personal transport.

The 132nd Fighter wing ("Freedom, Freedom!") of the Rebel Alliance used a variation of the traditional Alliance colours of white and red, instead opting for Gun-metal grey and blood red signifying the Bloodshed by the DS1 when it destroyed Alderaan.

The most widely known and recognised colours though, are indisputably the flames of the "Rings of Fire" display team. This popular flight display squadron has a range of darker base colours (varying from Fighter to Fighter) with a swirl of Flames painted down the wings (added to by pyrotechnic charges whilst they perform).

Nose art, in yet another twist with this fighter, is actully on the trailing edges of the wings. the tapering nose and angles meant that Nose art simply didn't work. Instead ground crews took to embellishing the engin mainfolds and wing trailing edges. It is however the civilian owned, demilitarized "Rings" that have the greatest variance on the theme. A tradition of painting the inner surface of the wings has led to many stunning examples of art - from murals to collections of individual images. Even in this most trivial of area's, the "Ring" just has to be different

.

TESTIMONIALS :
Treen Malvor (Ex TIE Pilot) : I've come up against this puppy from the opposite side of the fight, and was damned glad that the ejector in my TIE worked. Hell the first thing i did when i left the Empire after the Endor debacle was go mercenary, and I chose the group I did, because they had 2 "rings". Pound for pound, you won't find a better fighter in a scrap, and for flying... she's a dream."

Bul'ew Tal (Relnis Space Forces): "My father flew a "Ring" with the Black Warriors in defense of Relnis, I was proud to take my place amongst their ranks! There was talk of replacing them with A-wings, this talk did not last long."

Rodal Orang (Display Pilot) : "Yeah, when you take ths puppy up and really let her go... damn but nothing can stop you. I spent 5 years instructing pilot recruits in "Teething Rings" and I have to say, even though you'r effectively steering from the back, even having someone else fly while you feel that babies movements, it's a delight. Since joining the Rings Of Fire display team I've been allowed to really let my wild side show in the piloting, she rewards an aggressive confident pilot like nothing else! You want speed? Get an A-wing; you want power? Get a Y-wing; you want a fighter? Get an X-wing; You want th best of all three in one? Get a "Ring"! Plus you very rarly get pulled over for speeding when you have cannons.

Post by **Rob Wilson** » 2003-01-28 06:05pm

Knife wrote:My take, if Rob and Kenny_10_Belly do not mind. Both are real nice and Kenny, your a fucking genius.

The landing strunts: well, the whole ship looks like it is ass heavy so the idea of a front strut is, IMHO, not necessary. I think it would still look balanced with two to four strunt in the back end under the engines. (the humps on the rolebar are the engines, right?)

Fins: I really like the fins, it gives it more diamention IMO. For landing, the bottom could fold to allow clearence for the landing struts or perhaps the struts are long enough already so the fins don't have to fold.

The nose: I agree, the nose is lacking something. A set of conards could help. Rob, you already expressed that the small fins in the back look good but wouldn't do the job of atmosphereic control. Adding conards would augment the rear fins and add that "something" to the nose. If not, then some bulge or small turret for a sensor or the like.

I like the sensor, maybe a teardrop blister under the nose if Kenny's feeling generous.

Knife wrote:Color: Hope you don't mind, but I really liked the yellow scheme myself. I don't know what you have in mind for the design history on the ship, Rob. But it does look like it might be an older design so a Rebel neutral scheme just seems right.

Mindreader I have it designed 15 or so years before the Clone Wars. But also still serving and used by the Alliance (best of all worlds - everyoe gets a colour scheme

).

Knife wrote:Function: Do you have an idea about its function, Rob? It looks like it would be a heavy assualt "bomber" or maybe even a gunship/missleboat. A good take on the large v small version could be; the large one is a heavy duty, long range attack fighter while the smaller one was designed for local work. More or less just a difference in weapons payload.

Read away, I should have mentioned a CAS role in the Clone Wars section (I'll add that in a minute).

Knife wrote:Anyway, looks really great and it was a good idea. Rock on.

There's about to be a New thread in The Mess, I'll appreciate any answers from all members.

Post by **Dalton** » 2003-01-28 06:34pm

Kenny_10_Bellys wrote:No sweat Dalton, it's not your fault or problem, it just pisses me off bigtime now. I let it drop but when someone prods me on this subject I go off like a grenade, I'm like that I guess, Sorry.

No worries. All better now.

Kenny_10_Bellys wrote:By the way, I assume that's a Jay and Silent Bob avatar you got there, where'd you get it?

Got it from the front page of ViewAskew, actually. It's the animated Silent Bob.

Post by **Dalton** » 2003-01-28 06:35pm

Hey Rob, you want this O-Wing on the Starship Galleries page?

Post by **Rob Wilson** » 2003-01-28 06:50pm

Dalton wrote:Hey Rob, you want this O-Wing on the Starship Galleries page?

Go for it, My hope is to collect all the drawings so far and put together proper O-wing page myself (I think you can tell what my Wallpaper is bound to be real soon

).

Post by **Dalton** » 2003-01-28 06:54pm

Rob Wilson wrote:
Dalton wrote:Hey Rob, you want this O-Wing on the Starship Galleries page?
Go for it, My hope is to collect all the drawings so far and put together proper O-wing page myself (I think you can tell what my Wallpaper is bound to be real soon ).

Hehe! I'll add it next update if I remember.

Post by **Rob Wilson** » 2003-01-28 07:21pm

Kenny_10_Bellys wrote:I was thinking that if we keep the fins, the lower fins will be over the actual land gear door and will swing out of the way when the doors open. To be honest I'm having trouble coming up with LG that doesn't look too flimsy to hold such a heavy-looking design. More experimentation needed when I get the chance.

Well a thought I had was for the landing gear modules to be sort of lozenge-shaped with slightly rounded end caps. When the bottom opens the two end caps also hinge open this allows the landing gear to swing down and back at a greater angle than if there were bay endwalls in the way.

If you want a beefier set of landing gears, then the bottom of each of the 2 the gear modules is the actual foot (with crenelations if you wish) and the supports are angled hydrolic pistons that push down (one from each corner of the gear module) against the centre area of the foot. This way the pistons can be chunky for most thier length, the foot pad on each of the gears is nice and big, and you have th ability of the pistons to adjust their lengths to better position the ship weight over the feet to match the terrain (kind of like a simulator capsule upside down - lots of positions and movement to angle the pads exactly).

Kenny_10_Bellys · Post by **Kenny_10_Bellys** » 2003-01-28 07:31pm

Give me a minute and I'll have a quick bash at landing gear, something dead basic to get us going. I need to detail the engines anyway so it meshes nicely with that. Not been doing anything to it today really, had to leave work early with food poisoning or something and have spent the last 6 hours asleep on the couch in my front room eating paracetamol.

What starship gallery is this? If it's to be a permanent addition I'd like the chance to finish it and do a beauty shot of it, you guys need to remember this thing is only about 65-75% percent complete.

Post by **Dalton** » 2003-01-28 07:34pm

Kenny_10_Bellys wrote:What starship gallery is this? If it's to be a permanent addition I'd like the chance to finish it and do a beauty shot of it, you guys need to remember this thing is only about 65-75% percent complete.

http://www.daltonator.net/fuq/gallery/index.html

What's amusing about it is that Rob'll be the only one with a really nice-looking ship graphic and only the second or third with an original pic

Take your time though. This is a "just for fun" thing that we use for TGODs/Story Debates/War Games.

Post by **Rob Wilson** » 2003-01-28 07:46pm

Dalton wrote:
Kenny_10_Bellys wrote:What starship gallery is this? If it's to be a permanent addition I'd like the chance to finish it and do a beauty shot of it, you guys need to remember this thing is only about 65-75% percent complete.
http://www.daltonator.net/fuq/gallery/index.html

What's amusing about it is that Rob'll be the only one with a really nice-looking ship graphic and only the second or third with an original pic

Take your time though. This is a "just for fun" thing that we use for TGODs/Story Debates/War Games.

it'll also be the only one that doesn't have player character pilot attached.

Still it's now in the Warwolves fighter complement, so it's getting some use.

Post by **Dalton** » 2003-01-28 07:50pm

Rob Wilson wrote:
Dalton wrote:
Kenny_10_Bellys wrote:What starship gallery is this? If it's to be a permanent addition I'd like the chance to finish it and do a beauty shot of it, you guys need to remember this thing is only about 65-75% percent complete.
http://www.daltonator.net/fuq/gallery/index.html

What's amusing about it is that Rob'll be the only one with a really nice-looking ship graphic and only the second or third with an original pic

Take your time though. This is a "just for fun" thing that we use for TGODs/Story Debates/War Games.
it'll also be the only one that doesn't have player character pilot attached.

Still it's now in the Warwolves fighter complement, so it's getting some use.

Good, I didn't do all that work for nothin'

Post by **Rob Wilson** » 2003-01-28 07:50pm

Kenny_10_Bellys wrote:Give me a minute and I'll have a quick bash at landing gear, something dead basic to get us going. I need to detail the engines anyway so it meshes nicely with that. Not been doing anything to it today really, had to leave work early with food poisoning or something and have spent the last 6 hours asleep on the couch in my front room eating paracetamol.

Don't worry about it, I'm having too much fun coming up with a backstory and history for it - including little explaination for all the previous pictures.

Hey Dalton, do you want to wait until i do a full page thing, and then put that on the Gallery?

Also does anyone think i should add a couple of testimonials pointing out the flaws a bit more, because right now it reads like the bestest fighter that was ever best of bestedness.

Post by **Dalton** » 2003-01-28 07:53pm

Rob Wilson wrote:Hey Dalton, do you want to wait until i do a full page thing, and then put that on the Gallery?

Yeah, that way I won't have to do any work

Pu-239 · Post by **Pu-239** » 2003-01-28 08:18pm

Still looks too smooth. Needs to be less round and more faceted, on the nose and "nacelle" caps. Same goes for the windshield. Also SW ships often have more meta in the windows.

Kenny_10_Bellys · Post by **Kenny_10_Bellys** » 2003-01-28 09:10pm

Hey, the first thing I did was square off the nose and windows, and the first thing Rob fixed was... the nose and windows. I like squarish windows a bit like the X-wing, but I can see that there's room for something different too. Check out the pic below, I've now added more detail and started panelling the engines. I've also begun the very tedious nurnie process on the engines, you can now see the actual start of pipes and machinery in the engine cutouts. That'll slowly spread over time. Notice too the R2 droid that I whipped out of my mates Y-Wing to let you see where the droid will go, although you'll have to give me a clue what an R3 or R8 looks like. I have R2, R4 and R5 units to hand, as well as Roli Poli Olie if you're feeling mental.

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/kenny7/Owingscene.jpg

Remember this is only about 10 minutes setup work, I have about 20 Mos Eisley buildings on my drive along with a few Star Wars vehicles, droids, stormtroopers, etc so I can set up some nice scenes using them. I also have futuristic city scapes and no end of starfields, so I'll do a couple of nice shots once it's finished. I'd then add fog, haze, more detail and background objects, proper lighting, etc, etc...

No landing gear yet, but I think I know how I'm going to do it, and it will probably be tricycle. As for 'squaring off the engine caps', these are based loosley on Y-Wing engine caps and more detail will be added underneath them extending under the wing slightly, which will bulk them out a little and square them off underneath.