No Compromises: Kansas State Bishops Declare Voting for Abortion Candidate is "Evil"
By Peter J. Smith
KANSAS CITY, August 12, 2008 (LifeSiteNews.com) - A vote cast for a politician who supports abortion and same-sex "marriage" is nothing less than casting a vote for "evil" says a state conference of Catholic bishops.
In a voter's guide released for the second time since 2006, the Kansas Catholic Bishops make it clear that Catholics would "commit moral evil" by voting for a candidate who embraces abortion, euthanasia, embryonic stem-cell research, human cloning, and same-sex "marriage," when a morally acceptable candidate is available.
The voter's guide signed by Archbishop Joseph Naumann of Kansas City, bishops Ronald Gilmore of Dodge City, Paul Coakley of Salina, and Michael Jackels of Wichita sends a strong message to Catholics that advancing pro-abortion candidates and their aims is incompatible with the Catholic Faith. The statement means trouble not only for Catholic politicians like pro-abortion US House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, but also for the conservative Catholic Doug Kmiec, a well known constitutional law professor who endorsed Obama as a "natural" for the Catholic vote.
The bishops observe that "voting is a moral act" and that in some matters of morality, such as immigration, universal health care, and affordable housing, "the use of reason allows for a legitimate diversity in our prudential judgments."
Other acts, regardless of the motive or circumstances, always "involve doing evil" and must be opposed: "These choices include elective abortion, euthanasia, physician-assisted suicide, the destruction of embryonic human beings in stem cell research, human cloning, and same-sex 'marriage.'"
"Such acts are judged to be intrinsically evil, that is, evil in and of themselves regardless of our motives or the circumstances. They constitute an attack against innocent human life, as well as marriage and family," state the bishops.
"In light of the above we would commit moral evil if we were to vote for a candidate who takes a permissive stand on those actions that are intrinsically evil when there is a morally-acceptable alternative."
Catholic voters have to bring a "correct conscience" on matters regarding innocent human life and the family even when faced with the choice of two unacceptable candidates.
"So when there is no choice of a candidate that avoids supporting intrinsically evil actions, especially elective abortion, we should vote in such a way as to allow the least harm to innocent human life and dignity," the bishops conclude.
"We would not be acting immorally therefore if we were to vote for a candidate who is not totally acceptable in order to defeat one who poses an even greater threat to human life and dignity."
In other words the only candidate you can vote for is McCain. I recently learned if your an American Catholic you not only not only are you not allowed to abstain from voting or vote for a Third Party. You must vote McCain.
Fuck it I still gonna vote Obama...
"The real ideological schism in America is not Republican vs Democrat; it is North vs South, Urban vs Rural, and it has been since the 19th century."
-Mike Wong
Invictus ChiKen wrote:In other words the only candidate you can vote for is McCain. I recently learned if your an American Catholic you not only not only are you not allowed to abstain from voting or vote for a Third Party. You must vote McCain.
Fuck it I still gonna vote Obama...
Well, uh, yeah. I still don't get how the big church telling you what to do is in any way consistent with having your own reasoned, well-thought out ideas and morals.
Well, since I wasn't baptized there, those hicks can go suck lemons out of their asses.
Funny how they glossed over on Iraq and the capital punishment.
That's the second time in the span of a month that I've sworn at priests. This board is really getting into me (disclaimer: I converted sometime after joining here)
Turns out that a five way cross over between It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, the Ali G Show, Fargo, Idiocracy and Veep is a lot less funny when you're actually living in it.
Pelranius wrote:Well, since I wasn't baptized there, those hicks can go suck lemons out of their asses.
Funny how they glossed over on Iraq and the capital punishment.
That's the second time in the span of a month that I've sworn at priests. This board is really getting into me (disclaimer: I converted sometime after joining here)
This board has that effect on people, I've recently told two of my church mates to shove it with there I am so superior attitudes.
"The real ideological schism in America is not Republican vs Democrat; it is North vs South, Urban vs Rural, and it has been since the 19th century."
-Mike Wong
Could they get any more blatant in attempting to paint Obama as their favorite boogeyman, the Antichrist?
Fucking fundies.
"The 4th Earl of Hereford led the fight on the bridge, but he and his men were caught in the arrow fire. Then one of de Harclay's pikemen, concealed beneath the bridge, thrust upwards between the planks and skewered the Earl of Hereford through the anus, twisting the head of the iron pike into his intestines. His dying screams turned the advance into a panic."'
If the Catholic church is officially engaging in political campaigning, maybe they should be regulated as a lobby group. Maybe we should demand their financial records to see who is supporting them
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
Darth Wong wrote:If the Catholic church is officially engaging in political campaigning, maybe they should be regulated as a lobby group. Maybe we should demand their financial records to see who is supporting them
I'm actually behind this, especially as a few have gone as far as to say a vote for anyone but McCain is a mortal sin.
"The real ideological schism in America is not Republican vs Democrat; it is North vs South, Urban vs Rural, and it has been since the 19th century."
-Mike Wong
Or maybe it's a conspiracy by the Vatican to elect Obama, since Pat Robertson and Fred Phelps says the Church is in league with the Antichrist!
It's quite possible that the Catholic Church is going to deliver Kansas to Obama through reverse psychology. The Straight Talk Express will never know what hit it!
Turns out that a five way cross over between It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, the Ali G Show, Fargo, Idiocracy and Veep is a lot less funny when you're actually living in it.
the article wrote:The bishops observe that "voting is a moral act" and that in some matters of morality, such as immigration, universal health care, and affordable housing, "the use of reason allows for a legitimate diversity in our prudential judgments."
Other acts, regardless of the motive or circumstances, always "involve doing evil" and must be opposed: "These choices include elective abortion, euthanasia, physician-assisted suicide, the destruction of embryonic human beings in stem cell research, human cloning, and same-sex 'marriage.'"
Basically they are explicitly saying that all the issues on which Democrats are with the Catholic consensus are "open to interpretation", but the issues on which Republicans match the Catholic consensus are vitally important and totally critical.
Like any immense organization the Catholic Church has right and left wings; I guess the dioceses in Kansas are very conservative. Big surprise there, but I really doubt it will have much effect. The Catholic Church in the USA is made up mostly from moderate Christians (more extreme people tend to leave in favor of evangelical sects). The voters theoretically most likely to follow the Church's lead, Hispanics, are just simply not going to vote for a political party that so obviously hates them.
"I am gravely disappointed. Again you have made me unleash my dogs of war."
--The Lord Humungus
Actually, isn't that official Catholic doctrine? Their list of reasons for excommunication includes abortion, but it doesn't include murder, genocide, rape, assault, fraud, greed, theft, or any of those other social issues that they don't care about and regard as "open to interpretation".
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
Bishops aren't supposed to do that, obviously they are doing it, but officially the modern Church is above politics. I sincerely doubt the higher-ups are going to chastise the Kansas Bishops, but they should.
Adrian Laguna wrote:Bishops aren't supposed to do that, obviously they are doing it, but officially the modern Church is above politics. I sincerely doubt the higher-ups are going to chastise the Kansas Bishops, but they should.
Since when has the Church's official stance ever stopped them from doing shit they're not supposed to?
"It's you Americans. There's something about nipples you hate. If this were Germany, we'd be romping around naked on the stage here."
Elfdart wrote:I guess a vote for Dungeon Master McCain in order to please Catholic bishops is a vote in favor of napalming children and molesting them.
Well now, looks like the Catholic Church just lost its tax protection.
IIRC, in the 70's (last time such a survey was performed), Church property in America was valued at ~110 billion dollars. We have had 30 years, let us say they saw 5% growth (over time the stock market has consistently seen 10%, so this seems good to me, correct me if not). It would be valued now at just shy of 500 billion. I can't find a tax rate for this kind of organization, but at a conservative 12% we would see 60 billion a year. How much will universal health care cost again?
Plus parishioners would no longer be able to deduct their donations on their taxes under the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993, so that just went up as well.
بيرني كان سيفوز
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Nuclear Navy Warwolf
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in omnibus requiem quaesivi, et nusquam inveni nisi in angulo cum libro
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ipsa scientia potestas est
Let's be serious. No one is going to actually do crap about this. It's a religious organization. Can you imagine the coordinated, multi-network, multi-newspaper hissy fit if anyone even suggested a strongly worded letter, let alone the legal reprecussions?
Manic Progressive: A liberal who violently swings from anger at politicos to despondency over them.
Out Of Context theatre: Ron Paul has repeatedly said he's not a racist. - Destructinator XIII on why Ron Paul isn't racist.
Darth Wong wrote:If the Catholic church is officially engaging in political campaigning, maybe they should be regulated as a lobby group. Maybe we should demand their financial records to see who is supporting them
Pfft...we already know religion is funded by stupidity, thus effectively explaining why it's the richest organization in human history.
Darth Wong wrote:Actually, isn't that official Catholic doctrine? Their list of reasons for excommunication includes abortion, but it doesn't include murder, genocide, rape, assault, fraud, greed, theft, or any of those other social issues that they don't care about and regard as "open to interpretation".
Abortion isn't a ground for excommunication the last time I checked. I might be wrong, though.
Turns out that a five way cross over between It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, the Ali G Show, Fargo, Idiocracy and Veep is a lot less funny when you're actually living in it.
Pablo Sanchez wrote:Like any immense organization the Catholic Church has right and left wings; I guess the dioceses in Kansas are very conservative....
Sadly the entire hierarchy is strongly dominated by conservatives and reactionaries. Unofficially most of the Vatican II reforms have been pretty well undone, except cosmetic things like using the vulgar for the Mass. Twenty years ago it looked like the Church was one of the less repugnant denominations, and had a good chance of continuing to move in the right directions. Now it looks to be competing with the Baptists for recognition as the most evil and destructive Christian sect.
Ender wrote:Well now, looks like the Catholic Church just lost its tax protection.
IIRC, in the 70's (last time such a survey was performed), Church property in America was valued at ~110 billion dollars. We have had 30 years, let us say they saw 5% growth (over time the stock market has consistently seen 10%, so this seems good to me, correct me if not). It would be valued now at just shy of 500 billion. I can't find a tax rate for this kind of organization, but at a conservative 12% we would see 60 billion a year. How much will universal health care cost again?
Plus parishioners would no longer be able to deduct their donations on their taxes under the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993, so that just went up as well.
The church has also seen a significant decline in clergy, especially the regular clergy. There are fewer monasteries than there once were.
"Can you eat quarks? Can you spread them on your bed when the cold weather comes?" -Bernard Levin
"Sir: Mr. Bernard Levin asks 'Can you eat quarks?' I estimate that he eats 500,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,001 quarks a day...Yours faithfully..." -Sir Alan Cottrell
Elohim's loving mercy: "Hey, you, don't turn around. WTF! I said DON'T tur- you know what, you're a pillar of salt now. Bitch." - an anonymous commenter
Johonebesus wrote:Sadly the entire hierarchy is strongly dominated by conservatives and reactionaries.
This is true of the official hierarchy, because liberals simply get passed over for good posts, but the vast majority of day to day Church business is done by low-level functionaries, and in any case no matter how the Church has always wished to do away with freedom of conscience, individual Catholics still make their own decisions about things. Certain Church-affiliated organizations like the Jesuits and some Monastic orders are also rather liberal in many ways.
"I am gravely disappointed. Again you have made me unleash my dogs of war."
--The Lord Humungus
Darth Wong wrote:Actually, isn't that official Catholic doctrine? Their list of reasons for excommunication includes abortion, but it doesn't include murder, genocide, rape, assault, fraud, greed, theft, or any of those other social issues that they don't care about and regard as "open to interpretation".
Well in fairness Mike that is an abbreviated list. I've seen one as long as your arm, okay I don't know how long your arm is but just bare with me okay?
Now I didn't get to read the whole thing but supposedly murder is on there and assault and genocide are considered froms of murder (Don't ask me I didn't write it!)
And rape is supposedly right up there as being worse than gay sex (SUPPOSEDLY!)
Greed and theft are also suppose to incur excommunication as they are mortal sins.
But to be honest I am not really sure as my source might have been lying and trying to get a straight answer from some of these Catholic sources is well as a theist I sometimes think I'd be better off getting God to manifest before me and get an explanation.
"The real ideological schism in America is not Republican vs Democrat; it is North vs South, Urban vs Rural, and it has been since the 19th century."
-Mike Wong
That's interesting, considering the Benedictine monks at the abbey I used to work for are Democrats almost to a man.
