Traviss' Clone Wars novel questions

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

By Jedi, no less. Or, well, a bemasked Sith-Jedi-something-or-other.

Really, its hard to feel sympathetic for the Mandos when you've got Canderous Ordo happily telling you how he'd vaporize entire cities to destroy single military bases. I mean, I know we were planning on doing that in the Cold War with the Soviets, but we weren't as skippy about it as he was.

And then you have him telling you they BDZed some planets like.. that Cathar, just so to avoid fighting them toe to toe.

Yeah, really really honorable there. Cowards.

[Ryushikaze]

I like how she selectively avoids all the times when the Mandalorians BDZed whole planets in the last Mandalorian war, and still gets off with the "honorable Mandalorian".

Yeah, real honorable, and they got their asses kicked before. TWICE

For some reason, I think of better 'The south shall rise again' rednecks when I hear Traviss's Mando'a wank. While there might be a grain of truth to their complaints about the north, the propaganda for their own side is just ludicrous and doesn't make any sense.
It's almost begging for a picture of a mando with a southern confederacy flag painted on his armor screaming "We shall rise again!"
Though I suspect most people won't get the joke without a reference.

Those were honorable BDZs by the brave Mandoas!!!

After a while it is easy to see where her small mind will lead to.

Is it really 'leading' anywhere if she hasn't left the same subject?

Also for another lovable tidbit of her nuttiness, there's always her off hand math she did by her Mary Sue insert historian on how much Iron there was in the SW galaxy.

And she didn't even finish her calculations for a single planet, either. Someone here actually finished her calculations and figured that an average earth sized planet could, if stripped clean, could manage most, if not all of the materials needed to make the droid army, didn't they?

[Xess]

And she didn't even finish her calculations for a single planet, either. Someone here actually finished her calculations and figured that an average earth sized planet could, if stripped clean, could manage most, if not all of the materials needed to make the droid army, didn't they?

Using her 40 kg of iron per B1 droid Earth could provide 47,347 quintillion droids if the entire mass was used.

[Illuminatus Primus]

If he were a Sith, he would've just pinched a blood vessel in his neck and made him pass out or nerve in his spine to paralyze him, or prevented his breathing until he passed out; fuck the long-term consequences.

So how about Fett fighting two Dark Jedi and a squad of Darktroopers to a standstill in Dark Empire II, with them being scared of the uberduper gadget-gizmos in his venerable armour? Yet more wank for him?

I'd say, though I figure they were idiots and thought he'd just roll over before their ULTIMATE POWER instead of thinking and using his heavy weaponry. Just like Windu and his retard stunt in the Geonosian arena. You get the idea these guys are used to people just giving up or rolling over when they flash a lightsaber or move a rock.

[Imperial Overlord]

So how about Fett fighting two Dark Jedi and a squad of Darktroopers to a standstill in Dark Empire II, with them being scared of the uberduper gadget-gizmos in his venerable armour? Yet more wank for him?

[/quote]

IIRC, one of them was Force choking Fett, trying to intimidate him into being their hunting dog without pay. He blasted with the weapons built into his forearms. Two wannabee Dark Jedi tried to push around a heavily armed and dangerous mercenary while underestimating him and expecting him to fold once they gave him a taste of the Dark Side. Of course they got wasted.

[nightmare]

So how about Fett fighting two Dark Jedi and a squad of Darktroopers to a standstill in Dark Empire II, with them being scared of the uberduper gadget-gizmos in his venerable armour? Yet more wank for him?

IIRC, one of them was Force choking Fett, trying to intimidate him into being their hunting dog without pay. He blasted with the weapons built into his forearms. Two wannabee Dark Jedi tried to push around a heavily armed and dangerous mercenary while underestimating him and expecting him to fold once they gave him a taste of the Dark Side. Of course they got wasted.

Except that Zasm Katth and Baddon Fass weren't wasted, only a few of their stormie squad (darktroopers is just an assumption). They displayed no fear at all, rather they let Boba run in their arrogance, apparently thinking he wasn't worth their time if he was going to be difficult. For the time being. This supremely arrogant behavior is typical for Palpatine and all of his darkside goons during DEII.

[Connor MacLeod]

And thats the same Fett in Dark Empire who got ambushed by a seven foot tall Wookie, had his helmet ripped off, and his rocket activated to slam him headfirst into the ceiling.

And lets not forget that Fett somehow managed to collide with a planetary shield while facing the Falcon, got blasted by an ancient EMP weapon when chasing the Falcon later...

Fett really didnt have all that grgeat a record in Dark Empire 2.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Fett got ambushed in DE2, not DE.

[Darth Hoth]

Fett got ambushed in DE2, not DE.

I presume Connor was speaking of the "Dark Empire saga" as a whole (DE, DEII, EE).

Except that Zasm Katth and Baddon Fass weren't wasted, only a few of their stormie squad (darktroopers is just an assumption). They displayed no fear at all, rather they let Boba run in their arrogance, apparently thinking he wasn't worth their time if he was going to be difficult. For the time being. This supremely arrogant behavior is typical for Palpatine and all of his darkside goons during DEII.

The assumption is a reasonable one; would these arrogant Darksiders keep ordinary stormies as their personal guards while sending Darktroopers to interrogate some mechanic? As for them fearing him, that was me going by the drawing (they look visibly shaken, especially Zasm) and the narration box about his mighty weapons ("Even a Darksider should know better than to harass a fully armed bounty hunter like Boba Fett!").

[Ender]

And she didn't even finish her calculations for a single planet, either. Someone here actually finished her calculations and figured that an average earth sized planet could, if stripped clean, could manage most, if not all of the materials needed to make the droid army, didn't they?

Not exactly. I did the numbers, it ended up that for 10^18 droids, you would need less then 2% of the asteroid belt. For the clones in similar numbers, someone came up with the biomass of 37 planets, though you can just as easily get that material from a single gas giant and rearrange it as needed in a lab or molecular factory, both of which they have.

Of course the 45 kilo number is wrong as well, it would give the droids a density of 150 kg/m^3, or about that of balsa wood.

[Sidewinder]

Not exactly. I did the numbers, it ended up that for 10^18 droids, you would need less then 2% of the asteroid belt. For the clones in similar numbers, someone came up with the biomass of 37 planets, though you can just as easily get that material from a single gas giant and rearrange it as needed in a lab or molecular factory, both of which they have.

Of course the 45 kilo number is wrong as well, it would give the droids a density of 150 kg/m^3, or about that of balsa wood.

May I presume the figure of 10^18 droids is accounting for your belief that a battledroid weighs considerably more than 45 kg? I'm not suggesting you're wrong, just wondering if it's possible that composite materials (plastics, plastic-metal composites, carbon fiber, ceramics, ceramic-metal composites, etc.) were used extensively in the droids' construction.

[Terralthra]

Not exactly. I did the numbers, it ended up that for 10^18 droids, you would need less then 2% of the asteroid belt. For the clones in similar numbers, someone came up with the biomass of 37 planets, though you can just as easily get that material from a single gas giant and rearrange it as needed in a lab or molecular factory, both of which they have.

Of course the 45 kilo number is wrong as well, it would give the droids a density of 150 kg/m^3, or about that of balsa wood.

May I presume the figure of 10^18 droids is accounting for your belief that a battledroid weighs considerably more than 45 kg? I'm not suggesting you're wrong, just wondering if it's possible that composite materials (plastics, plastic-metal composites, carbon fiber, ceramics, ceramic-metal composites, etc.) were used extensively in the droids' construction.

B1s are seen walking through water on Kashyyyk in RotS. If they had a density of balsa, they'd be floating.

[Sidewinder]

May I presume the figure of 10^18 droids is accounting for your belief that a battledroid weighs considerably more than 45 kg? I'm not suggesting you're wrong, just wondering if it's possible that composite materials (plastics, plastic-metal composites, carbon fiber, ceramics, ceramic-metal composites, etc.) were used extensively in the droids' construction.

B1s are seen walking through water on Kashyyyk in RotS. If they had a density of balsa, they'd be floating.

And if the droids were made of a dense material with a lower metal content (the ceramic-metal composite I read about in an article from the late 40s or early 50s, which proposed using this material in aircraft construction)?

[Ender]

May I presume the figure of 10^18 droids is accounting for your belief that a battledroid weighs considerably more than 45 kg?

No. 10^18 droids at 45 kgs a droid is 4.5*10^19 kgs. The asteroid belt masses 3.6*10^21 kgs. It we upped the weight to something more reasonable like 240 kgs (10% the density of iron) then it woudl be shy of 7% of the mass of the asteroid belt.

I'm not suggesting you're wrong, just wondering if it's possible that composite materials (plastics, plastic-metal composites, carbon fiber, ceramics, ceramic-metal composites, etc.) were used extensively in the droids' construction.

AOTCITW says they make the battle droids out of iron from the rings of Geonosis.

[Ender]

May I presume the figure of 10^18 droids is accounting for your belief that a battledroid weighs considerably more than 45 kg? I'm not suggesting you're wrong, just wondering if it's possible that composite materials (plastics, plastic-metal composites, carbon fiber, ceramics, ceramic-metal composites, etc.) were used extensively in the droids' construction.

B1s are seen walking through water on Kashyyyk in RotS. If they had a density of balsa, they'd be floating.

And if the droids were made of a dense material with a lower metal content (the ceramic-metal composite I read about in an article from the late 40s or early 50s, which proposed using this material in aircraft construction)?

Just to clarify, what exactly are you challenging here? If they mass 45 kgs and have the observed volume, they are less dense then water and would float, regardless of what exactly they were made of.

[CaptainChewbacca]

B1s are seen walking through water on Kashyyyk in RotS. If they had a density of balsa, they'd be floating.

And if the droids were made of a dense material with a lower metal content (the ceramic-metal composite I read about in an article from the late 40s or early 50s, which proposed using this material in aircraft construction)?

Just to clarify, what exactly are you challenging here? If they mass 45 kgs and have the observed volume, they are less dense then water and would float, regardless of what exactly they were made of.

No, he's saying they may mass more than 45kg because they could have 100kg of ceramics/composite/unobtanium-not-iron in their composition. Assuming they are made wholly of iron is rather simplistic.

[Sidewinder]

No, he's saying they may mass more than 45kg because they could have 100kg of ceramics/composite/unobtanium-not-iron in their composition. Assuming they are made wholly of iron is rather simplistic.

Exactly. Thank you, CaptainChewbacca.

By the way, can anyone make an educated guess on what other materials are suitable for the mass production of battledroids? The plasteel (plastic-steel composite) we often read about in sci-fi? Ceramel (ceramic-metal composite)?

[Illuminatus Primus]

Ceramic-metal does exist. Its called cermet.

[Anguirus]

I'm so glad I told my 12-year-old brother "You can get that Clone Wars novel if you want, but I think the author is crazy. She has some weird idea that one clone can kill like a million goddamn battle droids." "Oh. It sounds like she played my Republic Commando video game too much." "Yes she did, Matt. Yes she did. She also thinks Mandalorians are as important in the galaxy as Jedi and Sith." He gives the book a weird look and sets it back on the shelf.

I really don't want that crazy bitch getting royalties from anyone if I can help it.

[Master of Ossus]

May I presume the figure of 10^18 droids is accounting for your belief that a battledroid weighs considerably more than 45 kg?

No. 10^18 droids at 45 kgs a droid is 4.5*10^19 kgs. The asteroid belt masses 3.6*10^21 kgs. It we upped the weight to something more reasonable like 240 kgs (10% the density of iron) then it woudl be shy of 7% of the mass of the asteroid belt.

What are you inputting as the volume of the battle droid to get that density figure? Is that the Traviss estimate?

240 kgs/droid seems much too high, given that the Gungans were able to wrestle with them and even push them around easily after they were shut off in TPM. I think that the evidence suggests they have a total mass comparable to humans.

[Block]

Who says the Gungans aren't stronger than your average human? In fact wouldn't they pretty much have to be living in the conditions that they do?

[Sidewinder]

Who says the Gungans aren't stronger than your average human? In fact wouldn't they pretty much have to be living in the conditions that they do?

The ease with which Qui-Gon and Sebulba bitchslap Jar Jar suggest that any strength advantages a Gungan may have over an average human, is NOT significant.

[Master of Ossus]

Who says the Gungans aren't stronger than your average human? In fact wouldn't they pretty much have to be living in the conditions that they do?

I mean, it's possible that Gungans are stronger than people, but I didn't really see any evidence of super-strength, and the gentle little love-pats it was taking to knock over the battle droids (and their seeming unconcern about getting their feet smashed by metallic objects that weighed hundreds of kilos) suggests to me that the droids really don't weigh all that much.

[Ender]

May I presume the figure of 10^18 droids is accounting for your belief that a battledroid weighs considerably more than 45 kg?

No. 10^18 droids at 45 kgs a droid is 4.5*10^19 kgs. The asteroid belt masses 3.6*10^21 kgs. It we upped the weight to something more reasonable like 240 kgs (10% the density of iron) then it woudl be shy of 7% of the mass of the asteroid belt.

What are you inputting as the volume of the battle droid to get that density figure? Is that the Traviss estimate?

No, a rough estimate based off their size folded up.

240 kgs/droid seems much too high, given that the Gungans were able to wrestle with them and even push them around easily after they were shut off in TPM. I think that the evidence suggests they have a total mass comparable to humans.

It is also a density still less then that of water, and we see them walk through the water. Not only are they heavy enough to sink, they mass enough that the currents don't send them cruising downstream.

Quite frankly, reconciling the end of TPM and the river attack of ROTS is a real head scratcher. If the things were only 80 kgs, then they are about the density of cork. Which is better then balsa wood, but still bizarre. It isn't that I think everything must be massive and ultra dense; evidence that materials are low density would be beneficial for crunching numbers for ships. But in this case it really doesn't make sense. IG-88 was much more massive then he looked as well IIRC.

[Ender]

Who says the Gungans aren't stronger than your average human? In fact wouldn't they pretty much have to be living in the conditions that they do?

The ease with which Qui-Gon and Sebulba bitchslap Jar Jar suggest that any strength advantages a Gungan may have over an average human, is NOT significant.

Pretty sure the RPG stats could give us a rough estimate - for some reason I thought they were weaker then wookiees, but not by much.