Repbulic Blockade Runner

[Illuminatus Primus]

More unrealistic then a few billion to a few trillion people whose society rejects science, engineering, and industry in favor of macho chest beating overwhelming a galactic power who does embrace those traits?

I'd rather one retcon the Mandalorians to be less literally tribal and primitive than strip verisimilitude from across the universe in order to make things line up.

When Ulic Qel-Droma was first captured, it was on a surprise attack to COruscant. He and a number of Mandalorians breach the security of the Naval complex. Mandalore and a few others stole all the plans, tech, and info about the Republic military that they could, while Ulic and his commandos sent emergency jump coordinates to the fleet. All units were to jump to the same spot, which would have them collide and be destroyed. IIRC, the panel blends into a shot of ships exploding, suggesting it worked. As Ulic was leaving the complex, he was captured, but Mandalore and the others got away with their stolen tech.

Wookiee and Hoth disagree. It seems your theory rides on shaky ground and eager implication. I don't see why emphasizing and literalizing the Mandos bullshit culture is higher priority than taking the comic at its face value on major plot events. You're emphasizing an implication (Mando anti-modernity) over much plainer facts.

As to the Republic not imploding from this, a few points: Firstly the Jedi Organization at this time was far better suited to keeping the Republic unified. They still had the Watchmen system enacted, so they could react to scenarios before they got out of control. Secondly, we know that parts of the Republic did implode, the Kantz Disorders and Cleansing of the Nine Houses for example.

A single sector (of which there are thousands) or minor region and a Jedi progrom does not make for a realistic consequence of a broad-scale military collapse. Which seems itself to rest on a shaky basis.

Wookipedia is claiming that the fleets never jumped, which sharply contrasts with what I recall. I'll try to look at the omnibus next time I'm at the store, but for now, given the bullshit people like to play over there I'm going to assume Nebulax or some other retard is playing games again.

Uh, I'm afraid not. Hoth states that it did not occur, but while Wookiee is unreliable, the only evidence stated is a inference on your own authority.

[VT-16]

Despite its length being just a little over the Venator, the Kandosii is shaped like a brick, not a thin wedge. Add to that the fact that the thing's got firing stations and missile launchers hanging below it, it's several times the Venator's size, relatively speaking.

[Ender]

I'd rather one retcon the Mandalorians to be less literally tribal and primitive than strip verisimilitude from across the universe in order to make things line up.

THat's up to you in the EUAU; I'm trying to make sense of what we have.

Wookiee and Hoth disagree. It seems your theory rides on shaky ground and eager implication. I don't see why emphasizing and literalizing the Mandos bullshit culture is higher priority than taking the comic at its face value on major plot events. You're emphasizing an implication (Mando anti-modernity) over much plainer facts.

That's a lot of words to say "looks like you remembered wrong dude".

A single sector (of which there are thousands) or minor region and a Jedi progrom does not make for a realistic consequence of a broad-scale military collapse. Which seems itself to rest on a shaky basis.

Yes, as of now all I know of to support it is the weak statement in that pf saying the Republic needed to regain control of the spacelanes.

[Ender]

Despite its length being just a little over the Venator, the Kandosii is shaped like a brick, not a thin wedge. Add to that the fact that the thing's got firing stations and missile launchers hanging below it, it's several times the Venator's size, relatively speaking.

It is tall and it is long, but it is also skinny. Less a brick then a 2x4. EJ provided measurements for the Kandsoii on the last page, and in the past measured the Venator for us. Venator is 13e6 m^3, Kandosii is 14e6-18e6 m^3. They are about the same size.

[Illuminatus Primus]

THat's up to you in the EUAU; I'm trying to make sense of what we have.

Uhm, I think the fact they obviously DO have industrial corporate firms like MandalMotors bodes poorly from interpreting the primitive trappings of their martial/ruling class as indicative of a thoroughly pre-modern society. Especially for the Neo-Crusaders.

That's a lot of words to say "looks like you remembered wrong dude".

I'm saying I think you're overlooking evidence - especially circumstantial - which might lend itself to different interpretations. Having polities and societies which generally make sense to me - if permitted by the canon - stands head and shoulders above justifying little ships.

Yes, as of now all I know of to support it is the weak statement in that pf saying the Republic needed to regain control of the spacelanes.

We both know that an overnight evaporation of the U.S.'s expeditionary and strategic armed force would lead to much greater proportional upheaval, and the Republic's grip is much looser than that of the U.S. federal government.

[darthscott]

Despite its length being just a little over the Venator, the Kandosii is shaped like a brick, not a thin wedge. Add to that the fact that the thing's got firing stations and missile launchers hanging below it, it's several times the Venator's size, relatively speaking.

It’s not a bad looking ship, but I did laugh at the line in the KOTOR campaign guide about the Dreadnaught that says “whose missile compliment is often called the most sophisticated and most destructive in the galaxy.” Missiles with fission warheads, give them another few millennia maybe they can figure out how to make thermonuclear warheads, matter/anitmatter weapons, weaponize hypermatter or create relativistic weapons. Nothing would make me happier if there was a common planet killing bomb across all SW Eras that could take out unshielded planets. I just think it would give the SW timeline a better technological continuity.

On the topic of the size of Republic Navy I think it would be better if they had larger and more powerful ships in their fleet, but I really don’t mind too much that they utilize a smaller force. The Republic fleet would need to be very mobile patrolling the galaxy plus I am guessing that the individual planetary government would have a problem with deciding who should control such a large Republic Fleet. However, I do wish more emphasis was placed upon the Navies and Armies of the individual planetary governments. It would be nice to see that they do indeed have very large fleets comprised of multi-kilometer warships to defend their respective territories.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Yeah, I hate OMG TEH NUKES! by SWtards. Yeah, because uh, making ships the size of Manhattan move across galaxies is less impressive than something we could throw together before dishwashing machines.

[evillejedi]

given that warheads always seem to be effective in qualitative descriptions even though their yields are pathetically low compared to even light turbolasers and ships usually mount a decent load out of warheads in all eras (even the Executor mounted an impressive array of concussion weapons), the actual mechanism behind their destructive power surely can't be tied simply to their energy yield. Given that exceedingly dense material is available in the SW universe that is commonly used for hulls and fuel, some sort of relativistically accelerated ultra heavy particle shaped charge could still be called a 'fission' weapon, but interact with deflector shields in a way that makes it a credible weapon, one that requires a self propelled delivery mechanism to get close enough to operate.

[Kartr_Kana]

Darthscott did you miss that whole section about how the individual planets/systems cannot have large navies/armies if the Republic has a small one? Plus we already know that some of the richer worlds (like Kuat) have multi-kilometer warships. Such as the Mandator Dreadnought.

Fission doesn't have to mean nukes like we know them. Fission 1. the act of cleaving or splitting into parts. (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fission) they could be splitting chunks of hyper matter for all we know. Since these "fission" warheads are a threat to SW ships we know that they can't be nukes. I wouldn't let it bother me too much.

Also like evillejedi pointed out missiles seem to be used on ships of all era's and are effective in larger numbers. And like Ender pointed out missiles are more accurate at longer ranges since they can correct their trajectories.

Maybe the reason the Mandalorians and other "invaders of the week" can pose such a threat to the Republic is the same reason the Republic never explored/settled the Unknown regions. The Mandalorians and other races were/are in constant conflict out there. While the Republic could hold them at bay under normal circumstances when the Sith Empire or other factions destabilized the Republic it left them vulnerable. Like England in 1066, Harold Hadrada(spelling?) invades from the north of the Island right before William invades from the south.

The fact that there's constant conflict amongst Mandalorian and other factions plus their penchant for raiding Republic worlds keeps the area from being properly opened up and gives the Mandalorians their reputation. This could also explain the multi-species aspect and the "tribalness". Different warlords who usually fight amongst themselves unified by a strong leader who leads them to attack the Republic so they don't destroy themselves.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Oh come on, sometimes we just need to do what we did with Executor, and pass on the shit that Abel Pena or Dan Wallace want shovel into our mouths. Abel Pena thinks that single-sided true cloaks are possible with magic crystals, and that the Empire needs to blow up a planet Death Star style to get crystals they can't get in conventional crust mines. I guess the Empire can build Death Stars but not strip mine planets. These guys just aren't that bright or educated.

[Darth Hoth]

Need I remind anyone who invented the Mandalorian Crusaders - Kevin J. Anderson, in Tales of the Jedi: The Sith War? It should be self-evident that they make no sense.

[Kartr_Kana]

Hey I'm cool with throwing out the Canon or most of the Canon Mandalorians and re-work them. Right now I'm just trying to work with what we have