Parents on the run with baby after refusing vaccination

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bobalot
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Parents on the run with baby after refusing vaccination

Post by bobalot »

A SYDNEY couple was on the run with their two-day-old baby last night after the Department of Community Services took out a Supreme Court order to have the boy vaccinated against hepatitis B.

The parents, from Croydon Park, fled their home on Thursday to avoid police and DOCS officers after they refused to have their son vaccinated at Royal Prince Alfred Hospital. They told the Herald yesterday that they believed aluminium in the vaccine could cause him more damage than contracting hepatitis B.

The child's mother, from China, was diagnosed with hepatitis B several years ago, but both parents believe the illness, which can cause liver cancer and cirrhosis, can be managed more effectively than any potential neurological damage from the vaccine.

Vaccinations are not compulsory in Australia but it is NSW Health policy that parents of all babies born to hepatitis-B-positive mothers are offered immunoglobulin for the child within 12 hours of birth and four doses of the vaccine over six months.

The father, a financial adviser who is seeking an injunction against the court order, said he was told by doctors and midwives on the post-natal ward that they would be arrested and lose custody of their child if he left the hospital without having the vaccination.

The man said he and his wife had then left the hospital on Wednesday after agreeing to visit a GP, accompanied by a DOCS officer, on Thursday to get more information about the risks involved. But when the father failed to show up at 4pm at an Ashfield medical centre, he was told DOCS was removing the baby from his care for immediate vaccination.

"We gathered some things and fled the house," he said yesterday.

"My wife is tired. She's just given birth and we are on the run with a newborn and a three-year-old. The tactics that have been pulled so far are unbelievable."

The court order, obtained late on Thursday after a DOCS officer found the house deserted, states the baby needed to be vaccinated by midnight that day, but the father is adamant he will stay on the run indefinitely.

"I don't agree with the one-size-fits-all policy. He is a small baby [2.49kg] and they give the same dose to babies twice his size. I just wanted time to get more information about the vaccine."

But he admitted he had also refused to have his daughter vaccinated for hepatitis B after her birth in 2005 and has not had her screened for the illness since. His father, who is a member of the Australian Vaccination Network, which lobbies against compulsory vaccinations for children, said humans were incapable of breaking down aluminium and the vaccinations presented "a lot of dangers and lot of big questions marks".

But David Isaacs, a professor in pediatric infectious diseases at the Children's Hospital at Westmead and one of the doctors who contacted DOCs, said the case had angered staff because the baby's rights were being ignored.

"I am a strong believer in vaccinations being voluntary but not getting this baby vaccinated is a form of child abuse," he said. "We are talking a potentially major and awful outcome for this child and it is our job to protect children when they can't make decisions for themselves."

Professor Isaacs said the baby had a 5 to 40 per cent chance of contracting hepatitis B from its mother and "about 30 per cent of people with hepatitis B will develop cancer or cirrhosis and die young … I don't understand why these people are willing to sacrifice their child for a warped idea when the benefits far outweigh the risks."

The case will be back in court on Monday.
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There are people out there defending these morons. Apparently they are being "persecuted" for being completely irresponsible parents.[/quote]
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Re: Parents on the run with baby after refusing vaccination

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bobalot wrote: There are people out there defending these morons. Apparently they are being "persecuted" for being completely irresponsible parents.
It's the precious beliefs types.

As in, you know, we can't trample on their precious beliefs.
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Post by SirNitram »

They may have their beliefs, and those beliefs may include not vaccinating your children against life-threatening, indeed, permenantly crippling illness.

I have my own beliefs. They include building a gallows and hanging those who refuse vaccination for their children against such diseases until they are dead.

I believe the rest of the quote will suffice in un-changed form.
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Post by bobalot »

All children should be vaccinated regardless of what their parents believe. At the moment, most vaccinations are voluntary.

Harming yourself through stupidity is one thing. Harming children (or others) through your stupidity is criminal.
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Post by Broomstick »

bobalot wrote:All children should be vaccinated regardless of what their parents believe.
There actually are a few legitimated medical reasons to NOT vaccinate a child... but those are rare. And because there are children who genuinely can not be safely vaccinated it is vital that all other children be vaccinated, to provide herd immunity.

Parents who "choose" to not vaccinate put more than just their own children at risk.
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Post by Einhander Sn0m4n »

They believe their kids shouldn't get stung with the vaccine needle based on bullshit about autism. I believe they shouldn't be allowed in any environment with other kids based on the FACT they are a health hazard.

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Post by Winston Blake »

But he admitted he had also refused to have his daughter vaccinated for hepatitis B after her birth in 2005 and has not had her screened for the illness since. His father, who is a member of the Australian Vaccination Network, which lobbies against compulsory vaccinations for children, said humans were incapable of breaking down aluminium and the vaccinations presented "a lot of dangers and lot of big questions marks".
I imagine it's somewhat difficult for humans to break down aluminium, given that it would require nuclear processes to do so.
Professor Isaacs said the baby had a 5 to 40 per cent chance of contracting hepatitis B from its mother and "about 30 per cent of people with hepatitis B will develop cancer or cirrhosis and die young … I don't understand why these people are willing to sacrifice their child for a warped idea when the benefits far outweigh the risks."
Given that the mother is HepB positive, that means there's a 1.5% to 12% chance that the baby is going to die if it never gets vaccinated. If aluminium in the vaccine was even close to being that dangerous, surely vast numbers of babies would be dying each year due to it.
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Post by bobalot »

Winston Blake
Given that the mother is HepB positive, that means there's a 1.5% to 12% chance that the baby is going to die if it never gets vaccinated. If aluminium in the vaccine was even close to being that dangerous, surely vast numbers of babies would be dying each year due to it.
Considering the stupidity of the parents, I suspect mathematics and probably may not be one of their strong suits (even though the father is supposedly a financial adviser).
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Post by bobalot »

Ack. I meant probability.
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Post by Keevan_Colton »

Well, he is a financial adviser so he probably has a lot of trouble with numbers. ;)
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Post by Glocksman »

Keevan_Colton wrote:Well, he is a financial adviser so he probably has a lot of trouble with numbers. ;)
Ouch! :P

Too true and yet sadly so.
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Post by fnord »

I'm embarrassed to be on the same continent as those two retards.

Whatever he's smoking, take a draw and pass it around, dammit!
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Post by sketerpot »

Aluminum, huh? I guess now that thimerasol has been proven safe again and again in recent years, the anti-vaccine wankers are moving to aluminum as their new post-hoc rationalization of choice. Here are some actual facts:

80 years of experience using aluminum salts as a vaccine additive has shown their safety in the short and long term.

What these people are doing is moving their claims around so that they don't have to change their minds after they're proven wrong. Mercury isn't hurting people? Blame aluminum! Aluminum isn't hurting people? Blame non-specific "toxins" and list random chemicals with scary names! They've always been evasive idiots; I guess now these particular anti-vaccinationists have to evade the police as well.
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Post by sketerpot »

Sorry for the double post, but I still have some ranting to get out.

A stunning number of anti-vaccinationists claim that vaccines contain "antifreeze". When pressed for details, they generally reveal that they don't know the difference between ethylene glycol and polyethylene glycol. The former is poisonous, the latter is not. They fail at basic chemistry. More details on this. Or they could mention propylene glycol, a non-toxic ingredient in antifreeze, certain vaccines, and some salad dressings.

And then there's the idea that vaccines contain ether, which is just completely made up.

They also like to shout about how vaccines contain (miniscule doses of) formaldehyde left over from the manufacturing process. What they fail to point out is that we get orders of magnitude more from the environment all the time. Also, formaldehyde in an aqueous solution tends to break down into formic acid and carbon monoxide, but they ignore that too.

And as scientists continue to slap their pseudoscience down, the anti-vaccinationists are getting more overtly nutty. Some of them are claiming that any injection of foreign DNA into your bloodstream can contaminate your genes and cause horrible diseases. They conveniently overlook the huge ecosystem of viruses and bacteria that lives in each of us.

These people don't care about reality. They pretend to, but they don't. They'll use scientific terms when they want to hijack the credibility of science without using the method that has given it the long record of success, but they don't really give a shit about the facts. When you get right down to it, they're little different from the lady on YouTube ranting about how the government is putting rainbows into our water supply. They just hide it better.
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Post by bobalot »

I wonder if they will lose the kid, they should in my opinion. They have proven themselves thoroughly unfit as parents.
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Post by Zixinus »

I seriously can't add much to what already has been said: these people are clearly so insane that it would make batshit sprout legs and run on the wall!
bobalot wrote:I wonder if they will lose the kid, they should in my opinion. They have proven themselves thoroughly unfit as parents.
The problem with that solution: try telling that to the media.
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Post by Solauren »

If the SUPREME COURT of the nation you are in swears out an order, you damn well listen to it.

Period.

As for the 'vaccination is a choice! wa-wa it's wrong crowd', my solution is simple;

Vaccinations are mandatory. Period.
Refuse to get them; lose the kid + go to jail.
Simple as that.
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Post by Norseman »

For the motherload of all anti-autist / Anti-Vaccine material go to Hating Autism and just start reading! You can't really go far wrong.
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Post by Big Phil »

Remember that science project banning dihydrogen monoxide? People are just stupid...
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Post by CaptainChewbacca »

Okay, I have an aluminum ALLERGY. If it gets on me for prolonged periods, I get rashes so bad they break the skin. And this is the first I've heard of aluminum being in vaccines. I've never had any reaction to vaccines aside from the normal, and I know I've been vaccinated against hepatitis.

I'm living proof those arguments are shit. If there's not enough aluminum to give me a pimple, its not going to hurt anyone.
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Post by sketerpot »

Interesting you should say that, CaptainChewie. The reason the aluminum salts are there is because they provoke a stronger immune reaction. They tend to make the injection site stay sore longer, and some people experience redness and irritation of the skin near the injection. This happens at significantly higher rates in the versions of the vaccines with aluminum, so the scientific consensus is that it's caused by the aluminum.
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Post by Justforfun000 »

Sir Nitram Wrote:
I have my own beliefs. They include building a gallows and hanging those who refuse vaccination for their children against such diseases until they are dead.
:lol: Love it! It's so frustrating because I so understand what it's like to be on both sides here. I was deeply indoctrinated into pseudoscience from 1989 until 2004 that particularly focused on medical controversies like vaccines, medical "orthodox" conspiracies, etc.

All in all the guy they quoted was brilliant. He said it all:
But David Isaacs, a professor in pediatric infectious diseases at the Children's Hospital at Westmead and one of the doctors who contacted DOCs, said the case had angered staff because the baby's rights were being ignored.

"I am a strong believer in vaccinations being voluntary but not getting this baby vaccinated is a form of child abuse," he said. "We are talking a potentially major and awful outcome for this child and it is our job to protect children when they can't make decisions for themselves."
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Re: Parents on the run with baby after refusing vaccination

Post by Junghalli »

Kanastrous wrote:It's the precious beliefs types.

As in, you know, we can't trample on their precious beliefs.
Reminds me of a guy I had to deal with on another board who defended those Christian scientists or whatever the fuck they were who let their child die of a preventable infection because they don't believe in modern medicine.

I really hate the way these people are so hung up on respecting the sanctity of the parent's rights they treat the child's rights as nothing more than an extension of those of the parents. "We need to respect their rights ... to abuse their children for their own retarded personal reasons".
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Post by Kanastrous »

Somewhere along the way I lost the perspective that I have to respect people's beliefs, simply as a matter of course.

I continue to respect people's right to act in accordance with their beliefs - within certain bounds - but the idea that someone's batshit-crazy nonsense beliefs intrinsically and automatically merit respect, is too much for me.
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