Russia recognizes S. Ossetian and Abkhazian independence

[Bounty]

The Russian president has said the country has formally recognised the breakaway Georgian regions of South Ossetia and Abkhazia as independent.

Dmitry Medvedev announced that he had signed decrees in a televised address.

The move follows a vote in both houses of Russian parliament on Monday, calling on him to recognise the regions' status.

It comes despite criticism from US President George W Bush over Russia's decision.

"I have signed decrees on the recognition by the Russian Federation of the independence of South Ossetia and the independence of Abkhazia," Mr Medvedev said in the announcement.

Analysts say the move is likely to further escalate tensions between Russia and the West.

Earlier on Tuesday, Russia cancelled a visit by Nato's secretary general, one of a series of measures to suspend co-operation with the military alliance.

Russia's ambassador to Nato said the trip would be delayed until relations between the two were clarified.

Dmitry Rogozin said a "new understanding" needed to be reached between Russia and Nato.

[K. A. Pital]

*shakes head*

Well, well. I still remember that talk.

Putin: "If you recognize Kosovo, there would be consequences"
Bush: "Lalala, can't hear you"
------
Bush: "Don't you dare to recognize "separatist regions"! We stand by the territorial integrity of Georgia!"
Putin: "Lalala, told you so!"

[CJvR]

Intresting, I though Moscow would have more to gain by keeping things in the air. If Georgia accepts this amputation then there will be no effective block against the rest of it getting into NATO.

[Enigma]

I wonder if the U.S. will fire back and say they recognize Chechnya as an independent nation?

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

I wonder if the U.S. will fire back and say they recognize Chechnya as an independent nation?

That... would have worked 4-6 years ago. It won't now.

[RedImperator]

I wonder if the U.S. will fire back and say they recognize Chechnya as an independent nation?

That would be hilariously stupid. For one thing, the Chechen separatists were crushed eight years ago; the government in Grozny is pro-Moscow. Recognizing the "independence" of a country that doesn't want to be independent, and would get squashed like a bug (again) if it tried to become independent, would be a farce. For another, Chechnya is Russian territory, so recognizing part of it as an independent would be far more provocative than Russia recognizing South Ossetia. It would be like the difference between Russia recognizing Quebec versus Russia recognizing Minnesota.

[irishmick79]

I wonder if the U.S. will fire back and say they recognize Chechnya as an independent nation?

That would be hilariously stupid. For one thing, the Chechen separatists were crushed eight years ago; the government in Grozny is pro-Moscow. Recognizing the "independence" of a country that doesn't want to be independent, and would get squashed like a bug (again) if it tried to become independent, would be a farce. For another, Chechnya is Russian territory, so recognizing part of it as an independent would be far more provocative than Russia recognizing South Ossetia. It would be like the difference between Russia recognizing Quebec versus Russia recognizing Minnesota.

Besides, Chechnya is full of ze eeeevil Islamists that Bush hates so much, so he's quite content to let Russia beat the shit out of those people.

[White Haven]

Yeah, Stas, I've been hearing mental playbacks of that exchange this whole time, just chuckling and shaking my head. Don't get me wrong, I think Russia is, in general, obnoxious, but in this, I can't fault them.

[Pablo Sanchez]

Yeah, Stas, I've been hearing mental playbacks of that exchange this whole time, just chuckling and shaking my head. Don't get me wrong, I think Russia is, in general, obnoxious, but in this, I can't fault them.

Neither can the US state department without totally surrendering to hypocrisy, which is not going to even make them hesitate. Get ready for the "do as I say, not as I do!" declaration from the Bush administration.

[[R_H]]

Georgian president vows to rebuild army and pursue control of enclaves

President Mikheil Saakashvili of Georgia said Sunday that he planned to rebuild his country's shattered army, and that even after its decisive defeat in the war for control of one of Georgia's two separatist enclaves he would continue to pursue a policy of uniting both under the Georgian flag.

"It will stay the same," he said of his ambition to bring the enclaves, South Ossetia and Abkhazia, under Georgian control. "Now as ever."

The upper house of Russia's parliament, meanwhile, voted unanimously Monday to ask President Dmitri Medvedev to recognize the enclaves' independence. The lower house was expected to hold a similar vote later in the day.

France called an emergency summit meeting of the European Union for next Monday to discuss "the future of relations with Russia" and aid to Georgia, according to a statement Sunday from the French president, Nicolas Sarkozy.

The meeting was framed as a response to Russia's failure to meet the terms of the cease-fire agreement that Sarkozy had negotiated between Moscow and Tbilisi. Sarkozy, in a statement, said he was responding to the demands of "several states" for the summit meeting, which will deal with "the crisis in Georgia" and take place in Brussels.

According to senior French officials who helped negotiate the cease-fire agreement, the Russians must pull all their troops back to positions before the crisis began on Aug. 7.

The Russian troops stationed in South Ossetia and Abkhazia before that date may stay, and may continue to send out patrols into a "security zone," a thin buffer roughly five miles beyond the enclaves' borders.

But the Russians are not allowed to set up fixed positions in the security zone — an agreement that Russia has not adhered to, Sarkozy said Friday in a telephone call with President George W. Bush.

In the Georgian Black Sea port of Batumi, the first American naval vessel arrived Sunday to distribute American humanitarian aid.

A train carrying oil cars exploded while traveling near Gori, the city in central Georgia that Russia had occupied for about 10 days. Georgian officials said the train had struck a mine left behind by Russian troops. No one was reported killed in the blast or the raging fire that followed, which sent thick plumes of black smoke across the countryside.

With the bulk of Russian troops now withdrawn to the enclaves or to Russian soil, Saakashvili described the war against South Ossetia and Russia — a military defeat that imperiled his government and threatens Georgia's fragile economy — as a seminal moment that offered the seeds of political and national success.

In an interview in his office that stretched until nearly 2 a.m., Saakashvili said that Georgia had gained allies in the world and would embark upon a campaign of rebuilding.

He predicted continued American support and said that he spoke by phone with the presumptive Republican nominee for president, Senator John McCain, as often as twice a day, and that he was in regular contact with Senator Joseph Biden Jr., who has been picked to run for vice president on the Democratic ticket.

He also said that the Bush administration had not communicated disappointment or signaled a decline in its support for him since he gave the order on Aug. 7 to attack Tskhinvali, the South Ossetian capital.

He said that while he might face pressures in the months ahead, as the effects of the war ripple through the economy, he said he expected to weather any troubles. "There has been tremendous solidarity," he said.

The Kremlin has characterized Saakashvili as delusional and dangerous.

Sitting in his office as he discussed the effects of the war — tens of thousands of refugees; the scattering of a national army that abandoned its dead and its hardware on the battlefield; the loss of territory to Russia and the hardening of separatist sentiment in the enclaves — he seemed prepared to resume the policies that had set Georgia and Russia at odds.

He also said that he had made a decision not to continue to fight Russia during the invasion, and not to have his army organize an insurgency against Russia, because he hoped to save the country.

"We had a choice here," he said. "We could turn this country into Chechnya — we had enough people and equipment to do that — or we had to do nothing and stay a modern European country."

He added: "Eventually we would have chased them away, but we would have had to go to the mountains and grow beards. That would have been a tremendous national philosophical and emotional burden."

Steven Erlanger contributed reporting from Paris.

Bit of a slow learner, isn't he?

[Gerald Tarrant]

Bit of a slow learner, isn't he?

Saakashvili tried to rehabilitate Gamsakhurdi's reputation early on after the Rose revolution( Gamsakhurdi was the first post Soviet President of Georgia, and a right Nationalist Bastard). Gamsakhurdi forced the separatists to seek Russian aid by clamping down and trying to militarily revoke their autonomy. The US made an error by allying so closely with Saakashvili, his view of Gamsakhurdi should have been a clue as to his darker impulses. Pres. Saak's view regarding Ossetia and Abkhazia is right in line with his predecessor.

[Pelranius]

Junior's probably telling Saakashvili to get ready for round two. Or Cheney. The neocons never know when to cut their losses.

[Battlehymn Republic]

Besides, Chechnya is full of ze eeeevil Islamists that Bush hates so much, so he's quite content to let Russia beat the shit out of those people.

The U.S. is going to fund the Chechen separatists Afghan War mujahideen style. You heard it hear first.

[Vympel]

What a fucking retard. Does he really think that rebuilding Georgia's pitiful army (even assuming he received enough Western largesse to make it possible) will make him able to withstand another round with Russia? Russia's only getting stronger, not weaker.

[Battlehymn Republic]

I want to see South Ossetian, Abkhazia, Kosovar, Santa Cruz Somaliland, and Southern Sudanese teams compete in London in 2012.

[Pelranius]

What a fucking retard. Does he really think that rebuilding Georgia's pitiful army (even assuming he received enough Western largesse to make it possible) will make him able to withstand another round with Russia? Russia's only getting stronger, not weaker.

The defense contractors will profit either way. It's not as if they get paid more if Georgia somehow pulls off a Superbowl 2008 upset.

[Apollonius]

I want to see South Ossetian, Abkhazia, Kosovar, Santa Cruz Somaliland, and Southern Sudanese teams compete in London in 2012.

And Flemish, and Breton, and North Kosovar, and South Tyrolean, and Scottish, and Basque, and Catalonian, and Sardinian, and Corsican, and Kurdish, and Quebecois too, I presume? Hey, why stop there? Let's turn the world into a thousand tiny countries.

[Pelranius]

I want to see South Ossetian, Abkhazia, Kosovar, Santa Cruz Somaliland, and Southern Sudanese teams compete in London in 2012.

And Flemish, and Breton, and North Kosovar, and South Tyrolean, and Scottish, and Basque, and Catalonian, and Sardinian, and Corsican, and Kurdish, and Quebecois too, I presume? Hey, why stop there? Let's turn the world into a thousand tiny countries.

I'd be fine long as there are no Confederates allowed.

[Battlehymn Republic]

Somaliland is already a de facto nation, Southern Sudan is going to be a nation in a decade or two, Santa Cruz was a wildcard I threw in there to represent Latin America, the rest are all Slavic nations from recent events. You're acting as if I'm supporting every single self-determination group when in fact I'm just commenting (with amusement) the creation of new countries and their future presence in the Olympics.

[Pelranius]

Somaliland is already a de facto nation, Southern Sudan is going to be a nation in a decade or two, Santa Cruz was a wildcard I threw in there to represent Latin America, the rest are all Slavic nations from recent events. You're acting as if I'm supporting every single self-determination group when in fact I'm just commenting (with amusement) the creation of new countries and their future presence in the Olympics.

I'm not so sure about Southern Sudan though. Like the Kurds in Iraq, they have a bunch of neighbors who wouldn't like them to have their own state and thus upset the regional applecart.

[K. A. Pital]

Meanwhile, our politicians are discussing the possibility of including Abkhazia and S.Ossetia into the Union State.

*smiles*

I used to say on this board that Putin will start re-assembling most Russia-sympathizing Soviet territories under a new Union. It seems that this is happening faster than I thought.

[RIPP_n_WIPE]

Frankly I don't understand. If Russia is now officially recognizing Abhazia and South Ossetia as independent nations (both of which will probably merge with the R. Fed in the future) didn't that mean that they recognize them before this as autonomous regions still technically under Georgian control? Wouldn't that mean that, despite the fact that they were "protecting" south ossetians (I use quotes to indicate motivation not what they actually did) wouldn't it still mean that they invaded Georgian territory anyway?

[CaptainChewbacca]

Frankly I don't understand. If Russia is now officially recognizing Abhazia and South Ossetia as independent nations (both of which will probably merge with the R. Fed in the future) didn't that mean that they recognize them before this as autonomous regions still technically under Georgian control? Wouldn't that mean that, despite the fact that they were "protecting" south ossetians (I use quotes to indicate motivation not what they actually did) wouldn't it still mean that they invaded Georgian territory anyway?

They didn't invade, they intervened to stop ethnic cleansing and an unlawful military oppression of said autonomous regions.

[K. A. Pital]

Wouldn't that mean that, despite the fact that they were "protecting" south ossetians (I use quotes to indicate motivation not what they actually did) wouldn't it still mean that they invaded Georgian territory anyway?

We didn't "invade", we protected our soldiers and peacekeepers who were there in the first place according to mandates received in the 1990s.

Georgia should've known better than do it while our PCs were still there, at the very least.

[Rin]

Apologies if this has been posted or if It goes to wrong thread...

Financial Times

Why I had to recognise Georgia’s breakaway regions

By Dmitry Medvedev

Published: August 26 2008 18:48 | Last updated: August 26 2008 18:48

On Tuesday Russia recognised the independence of the territories of South Ossetia and Abkhazia. It was not a step taken lightly, or without full consideration of the consequences. But all possible outcomes had to be weighed against a sober understanding of the situation – the histories of the Abkhaz and Ossetian peoples, their freely expressed desire for independence, the tragic events of the past weeks and inter­national precedents for such a move.

Not all of the world’s nations have their own statehood. Many exist happily within boundaries shared with other nations. The Russian Federation is an example of largely harmonious coexistence by many dozens of nations and nationalities. But some nations find it impossible to live under the tutelage of another. Relations between nations living “under one roof” need to be handled with the utmost sensitivity.

After the collapse of communism, Russia reconciled itself to the “loss” of 14 former Soviet republics, which became states in their own right, even though some 25m Russians were left stranded in countries no longer their own. Some of those nations were un­able to treat their own minorities with the respect they deserved. Georgia immediately stripped its “autonomous regions” of Abkhazia and South Ossetia of their autonomy.

Can you imagine what it was like for the Abkhaz people to have their university in Sukhumi closed down by the Tbilisi government on the grounds that they allegedly had no proper language or history or culture and so did not need a university? The newly independent Georgia inflicted a vicious war on its minority nations, displacing thousands of people and sowing seeds of discontent that could only grow. These were tinderboxes, right on Russia’s doorstep, which Russian peacekeepers strove to keep from igniting.

But the west, ignoring the delicacy of the situation, unwittingly (or wittingly) fed the hopes of the South Ossetians and Abkhazians for freedom. They clasped to their bosom a Georgian president, Mikheil Saakashvili, whose first move was to crush the autonomy of another region, Adjaria, and made no secret of his intention to squash the Ossetians and Abkhazians.

Meanwhile, ignoring Russia’s warnings, western countries rushed to recognise Kosovo’s illegal declaration of independence from Serbia. We argued consistently that it would be impossible, after that, to tell the Abkhazians and Ossetians (and dozens of other groups around the world) that what was good for the Kosovo Albanians was not good for them. In international relations, you cannot have one rule for some and another rule for others.

Seeing the warning signs, we persistently tried to persuade the Georgians to sign an agreement on the non-use of force with the Ossetians and Abkhazians. Mr Saakashvili refused. On the night of August 7-8 we found out why.

Only a madman could have taken such a gamble. Did he believe Russia would stand idly by as he launched an all-out assault on the sleeping city of Tskhinvali, murdering hundreds of peaceful civilians, most of them Russian citizens? Did he believe Russia would stand by as his “peacekeeping” troops fired on Russian comrades with whom they were supposed to be preventing trouble in South Ossetia?

Russia had no option but to crush the attack to save lives. This was not a war of our choice. We have no designs on Georgian territory. Our troops entered Georgia to destroy bases from which the attack was launched and then left. We restored the peace but could not calm the fears and aspirations of the South Ossetian and Abkhazian peoples – not when Mr Saakashvili continued (with the complicity and encouragement of the US and some other Nato members) to talk of rearming his forces and reclaiming “Georgian territory”. The presidents of the two republics appealed to Russia to recognise their independence.

A heavy decision weighed on my shoulders. Taking into account the freely expressed views of the Ossetian and Abkhazian peoples, and based on the principles of the United Nations charter and other documents of international law, I signed a decree on the Russian Federation’s recognition of the independence of South Ossetia and Abkhazia. I sincerely hope that the Georgian people, to whom we feel historic friendship and sympathy, will one day have leaders they deserve, who care about their country and who develop mutually respectful relations with all the peoples in the Caucasus. Russia is ready to support the achievement of such a goal.

The writer is president of the Russian Federation

Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2008