What the fuck?

[Connor MacLeod]

The thread was moved off by "examination" by Ghost Rider, and I say fucking good riddance. It may or may not be a vendetta (Broomstick is right, can we establish a pattern or PROOF of that before we go with Vendetta?)

I have to ask the quesiton: Who the fuck cares if Colfax came back? If, like Surlethe says, he has changed, that's a GOOD thing, and he shouldn't be getting flamed right out of the gate for it.

The fact that Mr Coffee regarded flaming SC as "their fun" is perhaps the most irritating thing to me, as if he's somehow fucking entitled to flame someone without intervention or interruption. This is, in fact, one of the things that lead me to originally bringing up the "things are getting worse on the forum." SC seems to have become someone who is viewed as a perpetual chewty, and someone who others (including I bet, noobs) can latch onto and mock. If he actually fucks up somehow or says something obviously stupid, THEN he's worthy of mockery, but not before. I would be annoyed if someone decided to hold me purely to my PAST behaviour, because frankly there are times in the past I'd have been just as bad if not much better than Colfax. He's at least entitled to some time to either hang himself or to demonstrate he's changed - WITHOUT a bunch of jerks heckling him at the start.

What we have basically are what seem to be people dogpiling Colfax because.. he's Colfax, and then whining about it because someone is criticizing them.

So then, I'm going to ask those that involved themselves in the thread, particularily Mr Coffe, to justify themselves. I want to know WHY THE FUCK they felt justified in flaming him like that, and why they think they're entitled to do it.

Edit: removed my last part directed at Mr Coffee. I'll just post it directly.

[Connor MacLeod]

Oh for fuck's sake. Before we start talkign permaban, can we at LEAST determine they did something wrong besides apparently acting like total dicks? I find the fact they decided to preemptively flame SC for his return (without any valid reason, until they provide one) annoying, but I don't yet see a reason to permban. Titling or tempban at MOST.

So, how about we actually do the following: 1.) Hold a vote to determine if this incident warrants punishment of any kind. 2.) Decide who, if any, deserve punishgment, and THEN 3.) Decide the punishment.

And I reiterate that TEsting IS a valid function for the board. Its the place where stupidity is sent off to (or is to go) because there are times when people want to do stuff like that. Its a pressure valve to blow off steam. Because lets face it, we do have members who revel in those kinds of antics.

[Connor MacLeod]

Master of Cards just sent me this and wished me to post it:

Hey Conner,

linkage

I was responding to this, which had just happened, I decided to do it in testing instead of the thread to not get in trouble for spammy bullshit. Oh how wrong I was.

MoC

I'm going to refrain on commenting on this for a bit, but I can't say I'm impressed.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

I support a permban against each of the perpetrators of that thread: MoC, Darth Nostril, Buddha, Mr. Coffee, and chitterling. They are marginal users, who mostly spam Testing, and occasionally foul up other forums. When have you actually seen them debate, or post a productive thread in, say, SLAM, or even N&P? We have spammers, a religious nut (we have a Jesus Christ on this board, but it's a joke account. Buddha is for real), and Mr. Coffee, whose greatest contribution to this board is writing the funnies in the HoS (last updated in June).

They have conveniently gathered in one thread. I suggest we carpet-bomb the area, and significantly improve the signal-to-noise ratio on the board.

If permbanning won't work, we can always tempban them for a few months with the option to extend it indefinitely if we find we like it.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

I don't think a permban is acceptable at this stage, but it's clear DR violations, so VI's and one-month temp bans would not seem like an excessive punishment, would it?

[Pablo Sanchez]

I don't think a permban is acceptable at this stage, but it's clear DR violations, so VI's and one-month temp bans would not seem like an excessive punishment, would it?

I think it would; a month is the same length of ban that, for example, Spanky the Dolphin received for a much more serious offense a couple years ago.

Also I'm going to note that Mr. Coffee did not actually directly insult or otherwise goad Schuyler Colfax in the thread in question, and he plausibly denies doing so since Colfax's apparent return to the board. If we're going to start talking severe punishments then I think we'll need specific citations of where each accused violated policy. If need be, a staff member could lock and move the thread into HoS for viewing purposes.

I also think that, whereas it is not the responsibility of the Senate or the staff to babysit SC or the Testing mooks, I think that there was a lapse of duty on our part, in that the Vendetta-esque flaming of Colfax should have been dealt with earlier before it even developed to the point where we had to consider it a serious policy violation. I think this case gradually developed from Colfax being made fun of for being a permanoob, to his mistakes becoming a joke in themselves, to him being treated as a joke generally, rather than being a real "vendetta." I'm not sure I see the justification in actually banning, although punishment would of course be decided on a case-by-case basis and if someone really merited it, I'd have no objection.

Instead we should try to elucidate a policy to draw the line between mocking stupid people and victimizing the inept, so that people know the difference for next time.

[Broomstick]

I don't think a permban is acceptable at this stage, but it's clear DR violations, so VI's and one-month temp bans would not seem like an excessive punishment, would it?

How can we determine that when the offending thread is not accessible so we can't truly examine the situation? I do not feel comfortable titling, tempbanning, etc. based merely on someone else's say-so when I cannot examine the evidence.

And in general you tend to want to hand down punishments harsher than I do, so I'd have to say, based on the information I have at hand (which is meager) I have to say that your suggestion is unduly harsh.

Of course, with more information I might change my mind.

[RedImperator]

At the risk of stepping on Ghost Rider's toes, I'm going to move the thread in question into the HoS; locked, of course. That way everyone can examine the evidence. As for what should be done to the offenders, I'm actually going to argue a warning and nothing more. They got called out on their bullshit, they know bullying SC again will get a load of shit dumped on their heads, that's good enough. Pablo is right: the staff and the Senate let SC get turned into a punching bag; lashing out and stomping a few plebes now for doing what they thought they were allowed to do by virtue of the rules going unenforced is just overcompensation.

Now, as for some other things that have come up in this thread.

Well now.

Apparently a certain "douche monger of a Senator" has upset Mr. Coffee by actually attempting to enforce board rules fairly.<snip>What say you?

I say you're way the fuck out of line for trying to use the Senate to punish a user because you got all butthurt. I especially like how you accuse him of an AR3 violation, when last I checked, you're not a moderator. There's no rule that says the Senate is immune to criticism. Frankly, I think it might do us some good if the plebs can criticize us. At any rate, the proper way to respond to criticism--even criticism which refers to you personally as a douche-monger--is to address it directly or ignore it, not try to throw your weight around up here. If you really think a plebe is out of line, you do the same thing you'd do if you were in a debate with someone you thought was breaking the rules: ask a third party to examine the issue, and, if warranted, make the thread.

As for N&P, I think that deserves a thread all on it's own. I suspect it's going to get ugly, too.

[Edi]

In case someone missed it in the current Venting thread, here is what one of the users in question, Mr. Coffee, has to say for himself.

Ya know what, I'm really getting tired of the fucking Senate. No, not the United States Senate, but the SDN Senate. Seriously, does it serve an actual purpose beyond stroking the egos of a few select members and allow certain members to talk shit without much chance for the "plebes" to say anything back unless another Senator reposts a PM for us?

I hopped on the site today and on a lark looked in the "Senate" and noticed a new thread that Kuja started about there supposedly being a "vendetta" against EP/SC/Colefail that I'm supposed to be a part of. Now, normally I couldn't give a rat's ass what the Senate does or what sort of wacky and often useless shit posted in there, but this time my name got brought up specifically as me having done something wrong.

So, I'm gonna post in this venting thread about it, mainly to keep it off the public board so only board members can see this. If it needs moving I'm sure one of the friendly neighborhood Mods will be a pal and do so.

Is there I vendetta against EP/SC/Colefail? Fuck if I know. Look through my posting history and you'll notice that the only time I ever say anything to the kid is usually in testing and then only if the kid asks me a specific question or says something stupid in a thead I happen to be participating in. The recent post he made in AMP where he screwed up with posting a picture and there was a page long dogpile... Do you see my name there? No. Why? Because I don't have a vendetta against the kid.

Kuja, I say this in the spirit of love and human brotherhood, but you can kiss my ass. You want to make some accusations against me next time try providing some actual evidence that I actually did anything.

Take that as you will. I was also given to understand by one user that all the dogpiling on SC was restricted to Testing, perhaps with the exception of the one resulting from a screwed up AMP post. That does not excuse going overboard in Testing, but it does point to a lack of general vendetta on the rest of the board. If nothing else, this is a mitigating factor.

RedImperator is also right on the money about N&P's current state needing a thread of its own. It needs a good cleanup and harsh oppression if it's going to improve, but that's a discussion for that thread. Now it's back to work for me.

[Broomstick]

OK, I have read the thread in question, all four fucking pages of it, and I'm pissed that this got dragged before the senate.

First of all, I had the impression from Kuja that someone started a thread specifically to dogpile SC, which is not the case. The OP could be read as either a sincere or sarcastic welcome back, but it wasn't a dogpile. It then moved to a discussion of his departure and how long he had been gone.

Mr. Coffee's contribution was "when doesn't SC say stupid shit", which, by the way, is MUCH milder than Ender's current habit of calling me a "psychotic whore" which, I will also add, I have NOT complained about since he didn't violate any rules in doing so. Giving an opinion that someone says stupid shit is not a rule violation, it's an opinion. He did tell Crazedwraith to fuck off, but that's not a board offense either. I do not support punishing Mr Coffee in any way because I don't see where he did anything against the rules or unacceptable for the forum in question.

Ford Prefect did annoy me by generating a list of things he didn't like about SC. Well, OK, he doesn't have to like the guy. I don't, however, see where posting bad fanfic has anything to do with his conduct elsewhere as most of fanfic is so bad I wouldn't use it to wipe my ass for fear of getting my shit dirty. That, by the way, is why I don't read the fanfic here - I'll return to the point about not torturing yourself later (I'm looking at you, Kuja). It bothers me that Ford does seem to think SC is "fair game" any time he returns, so I'd issue him a stern warning about vendettas and vulturing and remind him to behave.

After a minor digression to US Civil War fiction, Darth Nostril then apparently dumps on Phantase for welcoming back SC. That's an jab at Phantase, not SC.

More diversion into 19th Century portraiture and the state of Napoleon's asshole.

Mr. Coffee calls Crazedwraith a cybernanny and tells him to get out of testing. You know what, Crazedwraith was telling other people how to behave, that is nannyish, although in this case I wouldn't say it rose to the level of junior modding. In any case, it's a jab at Crazedwraith, not SC.

We have a language lesson in how to translate "Cunts for eyes" into German, and how not to.

Crazedwraith takes a shot at Mr. Coffee

More German language lessons, and much incoherent babbling along with a reference to an old Monty Python skit.

Ford Prefect concedes SC has not risen to the bait and concedes "there maybe hope for him yet", referring to SC. Mr. Coffee confirms the observation, stating that maybe the kid has grown. Neither of those are attacks.

WHO THE FUCK THOUGHT THIS WAS IMPORTANT ENOUGH TO BRING TO THE SENATE????

Ah, yes, Kuja....

The only "vendetta" I see here is you don't like people in Testing, or their rambling, incoherent, structureless threads. This is PRECISELY why I wanted to view the "offending" thread in question before passing judgment.

Someone comes back after a self-imposed absence and people who don't particularly like him note that fact, much incoherent rambling ensues, then a bunch of people conceded SC might have actually changed in the meanwhile. THAT'S NOT A DOGPILE! What the fuck is wrong with you? That thread was MILD compared to some of the shit that's gone down in other areas lately.

Frankly, Kuja, I view the fact you dragged this in front of the senate, made me wade through a half dozen pages of dreck I could not care less about, and more or less wasted my time, as an abuse of your senator status. It is NOT for pissing on people you don't happen to like.

If you don't like Testing or the people in it stay the fuck out of Testing! Is this really so hard? Do you have to be reminded not to stab yourself in the eye with a pencil, too? You're not a moderator. Moderators have to read threads they don't care for, senators don't.

For those involved in the Testing thread - no punishment beyond a Stern Warning not to engage in vendettas or junior modding.

For Kuja - don't abuse your senate privileges. Do it again, I'll motion that you get more than a warning for it. Really, I am fucking PISSED at you for doing this, and Mr. Coffee (and others named) are justified in also being pissed at you. There were people here ready to title/tempban (or worse) several members for what I view as an innocuous thread, based on your accusation and out of context quotes. Seriously, why SHOULDN'T we kick your ass for that? If it was up to me you'd no longer be a senator and maybe have a cute title, too, but lucky for you I don't have that power.

[Coyote]

I think the reason this got dragged before the Senate is because Testing is being used as a whipping boy for what was pointed out about elsewhere-- some of the personal barbs traded too freely in N&P.

I think Testing, and the denizens therein, are being scapegoated, personally. Testing is supposed to be spam central; that's its job and no one ever tried to say otherwise, or pass it off as a serious debate area. When we locked HoS to "New Topic" starting, and restricted rants to the Rant Thread, then Testing became the collection point for silliness.

I say leave it as is; it serves its purpose-- and remeber, within 72 hours it's all deleted, and no one gets +1 Postcount like they did in HoS glory days.


N&P, on the other hand, is supposed to be an arena for serious and mature discussion, and some of us feel that is where attention should focus.

[Ender]

Mr. Coffee's contribution was "when doesn't SC say stupid shit", which, by the way, is MUCH milder than Ender's current habit of calling me a "psychotic whore" which, I will also add, I have NOT complained about since he didn't violate any rules in doing so.

My goodness, calling you to the carpet in one thread is a habit? And way to not complain about it by instead deciding to be incredibly passive aggressive about it here to complain about it instead.

I see my post about being part of the problem went straight over your head, much like everything else being discussed here lately.

For Kuja - don't abuse your senate privileges. Do it again, I'll motion that you get more than a warning for it. Really, I am fucking PISSED at you for doing this, and Mr. Coffee (and others named) are justified in also being pissed at you. There were people here ready to title/tempban (or worse) several members for what I view as an innocuous thread, based on your accusation and out of context quotes. Seriously, why SHOULDN'T we kick your ass for that? If it was up to me you'd no longer be a senator and maybe have a cute title, too, but lucky for you I don't have that power.

Good to see you are continuing your habit (and yes it is a habit because you keep doing it) of over-reactive histrionics though.

[Broomstick]

Ender, do you actually have anything to contribute here, other than a restatement of "I don't like you, bitch"? Because your above post has contributed nothing to the topic of this thread. I think, however, that if I chose to push the issue it COULD be evidence that you are pursuing a "vendetta" against me.

You don't like me. I get it. I don't like you either. Why do you find it necessary to repeat your dislike of me at any opportunity, whether or not your dislike of me is relevant to the thread or not?

Now, what do YOU think about the issue at hand: was there a dogpile against SC in Testing, and is the matter serious enough to warrant punishment against anyone?

[Ghost Rider]

1. Kuja had the right point of bringing this here. The same as Marina when she percieves something that deserves attention. Whether action is taken is something else entirely. One of the few points that people are forgetting is that the Senate was made to be a place to inform moderators amongst other things. Getting pissed about it is mostly people's fault of doing this very shit in threads that were made because no one used the PM system.

2. It gets annoying but one has to remind the dezinens in testing. It is not your personal AIM room. Keep doing it, and we let Bean have his wild dreams of mass destruction. It is a nominal part of the board. The rules are more lax, but that doesn't exonerate any of you from scrutiny because it is simply in testing.

3. N&P is being discussed. Good.

4. Will people stop screeching about what immeidate bans. If an admin truly believed it was worthwhile, the said poster is being gone. As for going "Well, I'd be gone, so ha ha ha fucker...you aint got nothin!!!" is not a way to put it into any admin's good side.

5. If people want to go back to moderators acting like a star chamber to deal with these things, we can. And then we can see an uprise in bannings, screamings of shadow deals, and other such nonsense. Stop and think of what the alternative is. This place is not a democracy, we give priviliges. You start making the true higher ups think it is too much hassle? They get taken away and you're left with people getting pissed that they tried and were demonstrated to be idiots that they put anything into the populace's hands.

[RedImperator]

Ender, do you actually have anything to contribute here, other than a restatement of "I don't like you, bitch"? Because your above post has contributed nothing to the topic of this thread. I think, however, that if I chose to push the issue it COULD be evidence that you are pursuing a "vendetta" against me.

You don't like me. I get it. I don't like you either. Why do you find it necessary to repeat your dislike of me at any opportunity, whether or not your dislike of me is relevant to the thread or not?

Now, what do YOU think about the issue at hand: was there a dogpile against SC in Testing, and is the matter serious enough to warrant punishment against anyone?

Um, you brought his name up first. There was no reason to do that, and while I'd prefer if you and Ender had your quarrel somewhere other than here, you can hardly expect him not to reply after you fire the first shot.

[Broomstick]

1. Kuja had the right point of bringing this here. The same as Marina when she percieves something that deserves attention.

I just wanted to clarify that I understand and agree Kuja can bring up anything he wants any time he wants. I just don't agree with him that this was an issue that warranted senate attention.

[Ender]

Ender, do you actually have anything to contribute here, other than a restatement of "I don't like you, bitch"? Because your above post has contributed nothing to the topic of this thread. I think, however, that if I chose to push the issue it COULD be evidence that you are pursuing a "vendetta" against me.

You don't like me. I get it. I don't like you either. Why do you find it necessary to repeat your dislike of me at any opportunity, whether or not your dislike of me is relevant to the thread or not?

Now, what do YOU think about the issue at hand: was there a dogpile against SC in Testing, and is the matter serious enough to warrant punishment against anyone?

Actually, I just don't give a fuck about you. I thought I made that clear. Your antics, while deplorable, are not up to the level where you are worth giving any consideration to. You are a scroll over poster for me. I only replied because I caught my name in the process of breezing through your crap to get to Coyote's post.

But hey, you wanted a drama fest and started throwing rocks my way in the passive aggressive manner that is repulsive to the boards culture. And I, for want of a better thing to do on a rainy morning before class, called you out on it. Yes, clearly I am the one with a vendetta, that is why I am mind-controlling you to make you start something with me about a dead issue. Clearly I was out of line to point out the farce of being upset that a thread was created in here about an incident on the boards, don't I know that this place is just for serious internetz business? Now go ahead and play all butthurt like you did nothing wrong and are the weeping victim, instead of the loon who is trying to start something they can't finish in a pathetic attempt to validate your existance.

Or grow the fuck up and take responsibility for your actions. I don't care which.

I'll review the thread in question later this afternoon. That said, I do think the point that board culture and inaction in reigning it in (both through poor examples being set on the part of the senate and slow/overwhelmed moderator response) are the factors that led to it, and that needs correcting. "I feed the poor, and the call me a saint. I ask why the poor are poor, and they call me a communist" as it were.

Toodle-pip.

[The Yosemite Bear]

fgalkin you would permaban puppies for not being as cute as your cat when it was still a kitten.

[Pablo Sanchez]

Or grow the fuck up and take responsibility for your actions. I don't care which.

Alternatively one or both of you could be punished for dragging your bad blood into a Senate discussion for no damn reason. Regardless of semantics and "she hit me first" bullshit, both of you are now posting angry personal attack bullshit in a thread that has nothing to do with you. Let's call it done. Both of you need to shut it and find someplace more appropriate. I don't want to read another post about it in this thread, neither from Ender nor from Broomstick.

[Connor MacLeod]

I'm still conducting a PM conversation with Mr Coffee on the topic (he replied to me last nite but I havent gotten to it yet) , but I do need to clarify a few things:

1- I think so far at least there is no evidence Coffee actually ATTACKED Colfax directly this time, aside frfom the rather stupid "Colefail" name (ha ha, how cliched. That whole "Epic Fail" bullshit was funny for a whole hour.)

2 - I remain undecided yet as to whether or not Coffee DID have any part in whats happened, and if so, what. Just because he didnt participate in it doesn't mean he didn't do anything. But it also doesn't mean he has.

As has been noted that has yet to be proven. I wont be able to really look at the thread til later, but maybe someone (Kuja) could actually start assemblign proof of some crimes (at leat on Coffee's part) - that would simplify things (and I've asked people before in this shit NOT TO MAKE OTHER SENATORS LIKE ME GO DIGGING FOR IT!)

Frankly I'm starting to wonder if we shouldnt start levying punishment agianst Senators for making accusations without providing the proof up front.

[Connor MacLeod]

and while I like Ender and Broomstick both, I agree with PAblo. We don't need this bullshit in the thread. Either take it to private or let it go.

[Broomstick]

Please note that as soon as RedImperator said shut it, I did, which fact no one noticed, apparently. The only reason I point this out at all is to reassure people that when a moderator or governor says STFU I do.

I'm still conducting a PM conversation with Mr Coffee on the topic (he replied to me last nite but I havent gotten to it yet) , but I do need to clarify a few things:

1- I think so far at least there is no evidence Coffee actually ATTACKED Colfax directly this time, aside frfom the rather stupid "Colefail" name (ha ha, how cliched. That whole "Epic Fail" bullshit was funny for a whole hour.)

What do you mean "this time"? The ONLY "evidence" given is the thread Kuja brought up, that's what I'm basing my opinion on. If someone else has evidence of Coffee attacking or waging vendetta let them bring it forward, otherwise, the accusations are hearsay. If someone is asking me to vote on punishment it damn well better be on evidence, I'm not becoming someone else's bully-enforcer towards people they've taken a dislike to.

As has been noted that has yet to be proven. I wont be able to really look at the thread til later, but maybe someone (Kuja) could actually start assemblign proof of some crimes (at leat on Coffee's part) - that would simplify things (and I've asked people before in this shit NOT TO MAKE OTHER SENATORS LIKE ME GO DIGGING FOR IT!)

I agree - if someone feels something is important enough to bring up before the senate why can't they be bothered to do so in an organized manner?

Frankly I'm starting to wonder if we shouldnt start levying punishment agianst Senators for making accusations without providing the proof up front.

A possibility, but I'm more concerned with senators using their position as a big stick against those they simply don't like or don't agree with. While any senator can bring up a matter, I'd save censure only for egregious examples. Being a senator does not make you smarter, a better debater, or entitled to anything you weren't entitled to the day before you had that title. Being a senator does not make you automatically right. The flip side, of course, is that the Testingtards, titled folks, and general PITA's are not always wrong.

[Broomstick]

A plebe who wishes to remain anonymous has brought to my attention another thread which arguably shows evidence of "dogpiling" against SC. It was not, however, in Testing, it was in AMP:

You will need to scroll down to SC's post for the start of the mess, but this is the correct page

Yes, SC screwed up posting images. Who hasn't done that?

Darth Runious made a neutral comment that he couldn't see any images.

Zablorg does make an "epic fail" comment, but adds a smiley, apparently intending it to be amusing.

Yes, an error does merit mention. Two posters mentioned it.

Gerrald Tarrant actually makes a suggestion as to how to remedy the problem - no issues there.

CaptainChewbacca contributes a graphic commentary about failing at failing. This is the point where I think the choo choo starts to derail.

Argosh's contribution is a "me-too" Nelson-laugh.

Einy offers to "twist the knife some moar...."

Phantasee has a rather harshly worded post, but in this instance it's more an expression of frustration at past practices and it does contain a suggestion for improvement, and so in my mind not totally worthless.

The next two posts I'm unclear whether they're dissing SC or Argosh.

Rogue 9 offers yet another graphic as comment on SC's error

CaptainChewbacca says something about "negative points", which, from where it occurs in the thread, I think refers to SC but he did not add a specific name.

Argosh says once again SC "failed".

Do tell, if we are talking "permaban" and "tempban" and "titling" for those in the Testing thread why are we not talking exactly the same for those in the AMP thread? At the very least, Argosh made multiple posts attacking SC, with little or no substantial content. Einy and Rogue 9 likewise join in the "fun". Arguably, the pictorial comments are appropriate for the thread in question, but they strike me as "me too" jabs. Chewbacca might also fall under the umbrella here, too. What - other than a bias towards Testingstan - explains the suggestion of selective enforcement?

If it's bad enough to be called a violation in Testing it sure as hell is a violation elsewhere. If we punish those in the Testing thread I argue we must also punish those culpable in the AMP thread.

More and more, it appears that there is a deep dislike of SC here, but it doesn't seem organized, which is what "vendetta" implies to me.

[Ghost Rider]

I really hate repeating one part and telling another.

1. Senate has no power. It never has, never will. What it is and always has been is literally having another set of ears and voices, so the moderators do not appear to be a secretive set of enforcers. So to all the rest that feel threatened, they are being bitchy pussies, because long ago Dalton gave us who has the power to do shit to people on a permanent basis beyond locking/moving a thread.

They are

Mike
Two last admins.

Aside from those THREE people, no one else is going to do SHIT except make suggestions.

2. The reason some moderators(and really if some senators don't care for it, fine.) want things brought to their attention is simply because no one uses the PM system except the occasional blue moon. So it is nice to have someone else see a potential problem.

[Coyote]

I saw the pile-on in AMP and thought it was excessive. Before the pictures got deleted due to bandwidth limit, I saw Schuyler's pix. They weren't knee-slappers, but they showed a marked improvement over taste and style from his previous efforts.

In other words, the guy is making an honest effort-- if he gets continual ridicule, what's the point in trying to improve?

Anyhow, I didn't recall that part of the Motivational Posters thread until Broomie brought it up... I'm glad she did, too....

[RedImperator]

Please note that as soon as RedImperator said shut it, I did, which fact no one noticed, apparently. The only reason I point this out at all is to reassure people that when a moderator or governor says STFU I do.

Small point: I don't actually have any authority in the Senate. The way the Senate rules are written, the only people who actually have authority in the Senate are Mike (obviously), the Chancellor, and, in the Chancellor's absence, the administrators. I didn't mean for my post to sound like I was telling you to do anything; the only thing I can do in here is suggest. So far as I can tell, in this forum, Senators are equal (as it should be).