Palin Discussion [split]

[TithonusSyndrome]

I suppose it would be too much to ask Hillary to fix herself to especially co-opting Palin's "sexism" victim-card by roaring from the rooftops about what a despicably transparent ploy this is to scoop up her supporters? Or would that be asking too much commitment from the selfish bitch to the Dems' cause?

[CaptainChewbacca]

I suppose it would be too much to ask Hillary to fix herself to especially co-opting Palin's "sexism" victim-card by roaring from the rooftops about what a despicably transparent ploy this is to scoop up her supporters? Or would that be asking too much commitment from the selfish bitch to the Dems' cause?

I think Hillary is perceived as too much of a battleaxe to make that work.

[Coyote]

I like this pick, and here's why--

If McCain had chosen another ordinary WORM (White Old Rich Male) as his running mate, a lot of people who might have been leery about voting for a Black Guy --but unwilling to admit it-- would have voted for McCain + WORM and mumble something about "experience" as a cover word for "go with what you know" and "different people (blacks) scare me". We all know that, yes, a large bulk of the American voting population is indeed that shallow.

Now, a vote for McCain is as much a vote for Sarah Palin, so people afraid of change now have no choiuce but to vote for a Black Guy or a Woman. So... may as well roll the dice on Obama.

Especially since chances are about even that McCain will face a serious crisis of some sort, pop a vein and keel over, leaving the Mayor of Rumpville, Alaska, in charge of the country, facing histrionic Ayatollahs and Count Vladimir Putin.

[Noble Ire]

I suppose it would be too much to ask Hillary to fix herself to especially co-opting Palin's "sexism" victim-card by roaring from the rooftops about what a despicably transparent ploy this is to scoop up her supporters? Or would that be asking too much commitment from the selfish bitch to the Dems' cause?

Seriously, what the hell? Once again, I'm no fan of how Hillary behaved during the primary season, but what is with this fixation on her as a totally unprincipled, politically inept, and heartless nemesis of everything that the Democratic party stands for? This kind of attack is both moronic and self-destructive. Hillary Clinton is a politician, and she will do what she needs to do to help her party take the White House. For all her faults, she's too politically adept to do anything else, and I believe that she believes in what Barack Obama is trying to accomplish.

[Battlehymn Republic]

This is not too shabby a choice because:

1. The positive part about being a blank slate is that the GOP can make Palin look like whatever they want to.

2. As little experience as she has, at least it's executive experience, as opposed to legislative. Expect the Republican party line to toss this around a lot, it's important.

3. The scandal she's in is totally picayune, and the trooper she fired may or may not be a jerk to begin with.

4. Honestly, is there a more affable candidate the Republicans could have chosen? Everyone else looks like a WORM as said before, totally unlikable and more of the same thing.

[TithonusSyndrome]

I suppose it would be too much to ask Hillary to fix herself to especially co-opting Palin's "sexism" victim-card by roaring from the rooftops about what a despicably transparent ploy this is to scoop up her supporters? Or would that be asking too much commitment from the selfish bitch to the Dems' cause?

Seriously, what the hell? Once again, I'm no fan of how Hillary behaved during the primary season, but what is with this fixation on her as a totally unprincipled, politically inept, and heartless nemesis of everything that the Democratic party stands for? This kind of attack is both moronic and self-destructive. Hillary Clinton is a politician, and she will do what she needs to do to help her party take the White House. For all her faults, she's too politically adept to do anything else, and I believe that she believes in what Barack Obama is trying to accomplish.

You said it yourself right there; dragging out the primaries in a myopic and thoughtless flailing rebellion against reality doesn't suggest she puts the party's interests ahead of her own, and her behavior since has fallen short of a full effort to make amends. She's in a position where she could have left a gaping wound in the party and didn't, granted, but telling her supporters that she can't force them to vote for anyone smacks of sneaky, resentful subterfuge to turn loose her devout and have them follow their impulses to whatever ends - some McCain, some Obama, some abstaining.

In other words, I feel she did the bare minimum to avoid looking like a total bitch for PR purposes in the long run.

[Elfdart]

This pick was about the only one McCain could make.

Huckabee? Not liked by the loot & pillage crowd.

Romney? The whole Obama is a Muzlim! thing would fizzle out like Dennis Miller's career. He's also not enough of a Fetus Christer.

Thompson, Ridge, Pawlenty are all too dull and don't build enough golden idols to honor the fetuses who died for our sins.

Crist is believed to be gay, and Republitards won't accept a homosexual, except in the men's room.

So McCain needed a Fetus Christer who didn't have a foot in the grave, wasn't considered gay, wasn't a bore, and wouldn't piss off big business. He also needed something to stir up interest, and (most importantly) would actually take the job.

I'm old enough to remember what happened the last time a candidate picked a little-known woman for his ticket in an effort to draw interest, and because nobody worth a damn wanted to board that sinking ship. It was 1984 and while the Mondale/Ferraro team had a slight lead (48-46) after their convention, they lost 49 out of 50 states on election day.

[Battlehymn Republic]

Pretty much that. She was the only one they could pick without the GOP falling apart and still have some chance of drawing in independent/undecided voters.

[Mr Bean]

Except your going to have an issue with the old white bigot vote, IE most of the Republican party senior leadership. I expect most have already donated in full but you put a woman on the ticket! This might force yet more old white folks to stay home rather that vote for a Obama or vote for a Woman.

On the flip side, the old white women vote Obama had such trouble winning will likely be gone for good with this pick. Talking to several members of "the greatest generation" they don't expect McCain to live long enough to finish his term meaning a vote for McCain is a vote for Palin 2012

[Patrick Degan]

This pick isn't about Hillary supporters at all. That's a red herring.

The only people who are going to be moved by this pick are your traditional conservatives who are otherwise turned off by McCain. Once they can start crying 'sexism' whenever Obama/Biden attacks Palin, the republicans can start drumming out their base conservatives by creating a false sense of outrage.

Just you wait - you'll see stories upon stories of how Palin is just this innocent good mom who is getting savaged by sexists in the DNC. The only people who are going to eat that crap up are the conservatives who otherwise hate McCain, but might hit the polls for him to fight this completely manufactured 'injustice'. They'll attempt to stir up anger amongst their base in an effort to get them to turn out on election day.

Oh, it is about disgruntled Hillary supporters, but it is also about the motives you list as well. They both play off one another, and there's the racist dogwhistle dynamic going for this pick as well. Agreed that Palin serves as the false outrage generator for the DittoBorg.

Funny though. The Gimp married a trophy wife, but this is going a bit far to pick a trophy Veep as well.

[Azazal]

Well just great, she's there for the fundie vote that McCain couldn't get

She's a creationist

The volatile issue of teaching creation science in public schools popped up in the Alaska governor's race this week when Republican Sarah Palin said she thinks creationism should be taught alongside evolution in the state's public classrooms.

Palin was answering a question from the moderator near the conclusion of Wednesday night's televised debate on KAKM Channel 7 when she said, 'Teach both. You know, don't be afraid of information. Healthy debate is so important, and it's so valuable in our schools. I am a proponent of teaching both.

2nd article on same page:

In an interview Thursday, Palin said she meant only to say that discussion of alternative views should be allowed to arise in Alaska classrooms:

"I don't think there should be a prohibition against debate if it comes up in class. It doesn't have to be part of the curriculum."

She added that, if elected, she would not push the state Board of Education to add such creation-based alternatives to the state's required curriculum.

Members of the state school board, which sets minimum requirements, are appointed by the governor and confirmed by the Legislature.

"I won't have religion as a litmus test, or anybody's personal opinion on evolution or creationism," Palin said.

Palin said she thought there was value in discussing alternatives.

"It's OK to let kids know that there are theories out there," she said in the interview. "They gain information just by being in a discussion."

That was how she was brought up, she said. Her father was a public school science teacher.

"My dad did talk a lot about his theories of evolution," she said. "He would show us fossils and say, 'How old do you think these are?' "

Asked for her personal views on evolution, Palin said, "I believe we have a creator."

She would not say whether her belief also allowed her to accept the theory of evolution as fact.

"I'm not going to pretend I know how all this came to be," she said.

[CaptainChewbacca]

You missed a rather important part of that article:

She added that, if elected, she would not push the state Board of Education to add such creation-based alternatives to the state's required curriculum.

She'll let them believe what they want, but she's not putting it in the classroom.

[Noble Ire]

You said it yourself right there; dragging out the primaries in a myopic and thoughtless flailing rebellion against reality doesn't suggest she puts the party's interests ahead of her own, and her behavior since has fallen short of a full effort to make amends. She's in a position where she could have left a gaping wound in the party and didn't, granted, but telling her supporters that she can't force them to vote for anyone smacks of sneaky, resentful subterfuge to turn loose her devout and have them follow their impulses to whatever ends - some McCain, some Obama, some abstaining.

In other words, I feel she did the bare minimum to avoid looking like a total bitch for PR purposes in the long run.

I'd like to know what you think she could have done that she hasn't done to assist Obama's candidacy. The whole issue about her delegates at the convention was entirely overblown; she freed her delegates to vote for Obama relatively early on, repeatedly, passionately, and pointedly told them to vote for him, and personally called for him to be selected by acclamation. Clinton's initial calls to have her delegates be allowed to vote as they pleased were admittedly disconcerting, but her later efforts made up for it, and with all of the concern over the more stubborn and bitter of her supporters, I fully understand why she wanted them a little more time to let off steam before they were prompted onto the Obama bandwagon.

Even if she was resentful enough to consider compromising Obama through merely tepid support, which I do not believe, she's too ambitious and experienced a politician to follow through on it. Undermining the party's candidate would be tantamount to political suicide.

[Duckie]

McCain really upped the ante here: He's probably banking on Hilary voters, women in general, and young people turning out, along with reenergizing his base. And he wants Biden to smash her too hard and get smacked with Sexism. He wants to take the 'new and interesting, historical minority moment' away from Obama.

It's either going to fail miserably or work. Ball is, as always, in Obama's court.

[Azazal]

You missed a rather important part of that article:

She added that, if elected, she would not push the state Board of Education to add such creation-based alternatives to the state's required curriculum.

She'll let them believe what they want, but she's not putting it in the classroom.

Yeap, and the fundies in the Dover school trial just wanted to allow alternatives theories in schools, it wasn't a plan to get a foot in the door at all.

From her Wiki page and yes heap on the salt for wiki

Social issues
Palin is strongly opposed to abortion and supports capital punishment. While running for Governor of Alaska, Palin supported the teaching of creationism alongside evolution in schools; however, she noted she would not use "religion as a litmus test, or anybody's personal opinion on evolution or creationism" as criteria for selection to the school board.

She opposes same-sex marriage, but she has stated that she has gay friends and is receptive to gay and lesbian concerns about discrimination. While the previous administration did not implement same-sex benefits, Palin complied with an Alaskan state Supreme Court order and signed them into law. Palin disagreed with the Supreme Court ruling and supported a democratic advisory vote from the public on whether there should be a constitutional amendment on the matter. Alaska was one of the first U.S. states to pass a constitutional ban on gay marriage, in 1998, along with Hawaii. Palin has stated that she supported the 1998 constitutional amendment.

Palin's first veto was used to block legislation that would have barred the state from granting benefits to the partners of gay state employees. In effect, her veto granted State of Alaska benefits to same-sex couples. The veto occurred after Palin consulted with Alaska's attorney general on the constitutionality of the legislation.

Some strong but conflicting fundie views there, no abortion rights, no gay marriage, but benefits for same sex partners, signed under court order. Initial sniff test says fundie vote getter to me



Side note - ++http://www.vpilf.com/++ is up already, I'm at work, I have no idea what is on it nor am I going to click it from here so please treat a NSFW until further notice.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

I now seriously doubt Obama's ability to win, because all of the butt-hurt Hillary supporters are going to vote for Palin as a "vote for their sex" and because they figure McCain is so old he'll drop dead while in office and then we'll have a woman president and That's The Only Thing That Matters.

[Battlehymn Republic]

Palin is so inexperienced and has no ties to neocons like Bush does wouldn't it be funny if she became president and decided to take the country towards neo-isolationism?

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Palin is so inexperienced and has no ties to neocons like Bush does wouldn't it be funny if she became president and decided to take the country towards neo-isolationism?

Well, she has pursued an ethical administration in Alaska, which is so foreign to the current Republicans in Congress that she is unlikely to get along with them. I mean, we're talking about a Republican who actually passed an ethics reform bill here, and got the governorship by unseating someone who was as corrupt as fucking hell. So really the only thing she has going for her is that she's perfectly clean.

[Battlehymn Republic]

You forgot Troopergate. I think that's a non-issue, though, since the trooper in question is possibly a douche who abused her sister and son-in-law.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

You forgot Troopergate. I think that's a non-issue, though, since the trooper in question is possibly a douche who abused her sister and son-in-law.

And he never got removed from the department anyway, even after she replaced the commissioner in question, so claiming she did that out of revenge is odd if her ex-brother-in-law never got punished despite it.

[Ender]

This choice really threw everyone for a loop. The left wing machine is flailing around desperately to try and find something to criticize her on. Its actually kinda funny how, when caught flat footed and without being able to feign the moral high ground they sound exactly like the right wing has for a while now.

[CaptainChewbacca]

This choice really threw everyone for a loop. The left wing machine is flailing around desperately to try and find something to criticize her on. Its actually kinda funny how, when caught flat footed and without being able to feign the moral high ground they sound exactly like the right wing has for a while now.

McCain definitely set a bomb off in the political/media machine.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Frankly I think this just guaranteed that half of Hillary voters vote Republican in the General Election, not like many of them were not already going to do this.

[Tribun]

So he nominated Jane Doe from Dullsville for becoming the second-most person in the U.S.? Why do I have the feeling that she'll be just nice decoration to attract female voters but nothing else? That, I I dare to doubt that she'll survive several months in the fires of a presedential campaign.

[Flagg]

Frankly I think this just guaranteed that half of Hillary voters vote Republican in the General Election, not like many of them were not already going to do this.

Right, half of Hillary ( a candidate that virtually embodies "pro choice" in this country) supporters are going to vote for McCain based on his selection of a radically anti-choice VP with a vagina. I get that straight?