Palin Discussion [split]

Big Phil · Post by **Big Phil** » 2008-08-29 04:21pm

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:Frankly I think this just guaranteed that half of Hillary voters vote Republican in the General Election, not like many of them were not already going to do this.

Riiiiight... millions of pro-choice, pro-healthcare, women are going to vote in solidarity with their gender, and conveniently ignore that they have NOTHING in common with this woman except a vagina. And of course they'll ignore their dear leader, HRC's, pleas to vote for Obama to ensure that they get what they want, to vote for a woman they've never heard of.

Let me know when you want to come back to reality and then we can talk about what's happening down here.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2008-08-29 04:23pm

Hillary voters just struck me as that shriekingly stupid. I'm sorry, but I lost all respect for those stuck-up harpies, and I have no confidence in their ability to care about any substantiative issue at all.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2008-08-29 04:25pm

Tribun wrote:So he nominated Jane Doe from Dullsville for becoming the second-most person in the U.S.? Why do I have the feeling that she'll be just nice decoration to attract female voters but nothing else? That, I I dare to doubt that she'll survive several months in the fires of a presedential campaign.

Given that things like his Time interview make it look increasingly like McCain himself is getting told to sit down and shut up by the policy people behind the party, I really wouldn't be surprised by it. It is a pretty transparent move to grab some of the 18 million women voters Hillary managed to put together, but that doesn't mean it won't work. This decision is probably the smartest move the Republicans have made yet, as it just really threw the ball up in the air.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2008-08-29 04:29pm

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:Frankly I think this just guaranteed that half of Hillary voters vote Republican in the General Election, not like many of them were not already going to do this.

That's ridiculous. Only about 20% of Hillary supporters (and not all of them are Democrats, to be sure) polled said that they planned on voting for McCain before the convention, and I suspect that number dropped somewhat after Clinton and Obama had their say. Certainly, Palin will pick up some bitter voters, but its unlikely that most going to vote for Obama anyways. My faith in the American electorate has been shaken several times over the last decade, but I still don't think that a truly substantial number of Hillary supporters will vote against their own issues simply because they have a chance to put a different woman in the White House, particularly one who is effectively being used as a tool.

And, you know, not all of Hillary's faithful are women.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2008-08-29 04:29pm

Ender wrote:Given that things like his Time interview make it look increasingly like McCain himself is getting told to sit down and shut up by the policy people behind the party, I really wouldn't be surprised by it. It is a pretty transparent move to grab some of the 18 million women voters Hillary managed to put together, but that doesn't mean it won't work. This decision is probably the smartest move the Republicans have made yet, as it just really threw the ball up in the air.

On the other hand it makes you wonder how many will vote Obama instead of McSame because of this. There's already comments by people on the news blogs saying that McCain's lost their vote.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2008-08-29 04:29pm

The media actively seeking out the loudest and whiniest of those claiming to be offended Hillary supporters certainly helped that story, but it's just a story. Their grand and glorious movement raised something like 35,000 bucks after claiming they had already paid off Clinton's debt entirely. Every poll places them in an extreme minority.

In short, they were going to vote McCain either way, the few that were left. The question is, whether a Creationist Alaskan Scandal Ridden Anti-Abortion Pork-Loving Woman can avoid pissing off enough people to make it a no-loss game for McCain.

Anyone who thinks sexism in the GOP is dead is very silly.

Now for some irony. Link

DENVER -- Though it was high in shock value, the Palin pick left bruised feelings among the short-list contenders who were not picked -- and infuriated some Republican officials who privately said McCain had gone out on a limb, unnecessarily, without laying the groundwork for such an unknown. Two senior Republican officials close to Mitt Romney and Tim
Pawlenty said they had both been rudely strung along and now "feel manipulated."

"They now know that they were used as decoys, well after McCain had decided not to pick them," one Republican involved in the process said.

Democrats quickly absorbed the Obama talking points. Democratic Sen. Ken Salazar, of Colorado, said it demonstrated a "lack of judgment" on McCain's part.

Even some former Clinton supporters said Palin would not automatically draw disenchanted women voters -- and would face fierce pushback from the Obama campaign over her conservative social views.

"I know Hillary Clinton, and Sarah Palin is no Hillary Clinton," Debbie Wasserman Schultz said in a phone interview with NBC.

But Howard Wolfson, the former Clinton communications director, said she could peel away some votes.

"Both campaigns seemed to have decided that Hillary Clinton's 18 millions voters represent a key swing bloc in this election -- both Barack Obama's speech and John McCain's pick were at least partially aimed at them," Wolfson said in an e-mail.

"The fact that Palin is pro-life and pro-gun will be a block for many of Senator Clinton's supporters -- but not all. And it will raise the question for many why Senator Obama didn't pick Senator Clinton as his running mate."

Wolfson is on this like a hobo on a ham sandwich, trying to winch out his 15 seconds further, but imagine the headlines if this had been a Dem-centric headline. The media would be flashing crawls saying 'VP CRISIS!!!!!!' across the screen daily.

Big Phil · Post by **Big Phil** » 2008-08-29 04:31pm

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:Hillary voters just struck me as that shriekingly stupid. I'm sorry, but I lost all respect for those stuck-up harpies, and I have no confidence in their ability to care about any substantiative issue at all.

Tell you what, when you can provide some factual evidence that even a significant minority of DEMOCRATIC Hillary Clinton voters will cross party lines and vote in allegiance with their vaginas, then we can talk. As long as it's simply your opinion, there's no point.

As for Palin as McCain's VP choice, I would guess there are some independent women who will now vote for McCain because of her, and some independent men who will vote for Obama for the same reason. In any case, I'll bet it makes the election a lot closer than it was 24 hours ago.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2008-08-29 04:38pm

For those decrying DZ's prediction, you might want to cruise some of the die hard sites. Argument being echoed there is that since McCain is a 1 termer, Palin will be the Republican nominee in 2012. Which means the Democrats will have to run a woman against them, which means Hillary. So by their bizarre logic, voting for McCain now means Hillary will win in 2012. I don't know how this will affect the mainliners, but the reluctant converts and diehards in the Democratic party are now looking at McCain with a gleam in their eye. And dismissing them is not a good plan. One could reasonably assume that most of them were going to stay home in November rather then follow through on the promise to vote McCain. Particularly since it was only a few of the loudest claiming that. Now they go from being neutral to opponents. This really upset the field, and thinking otherwise is a disservice.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2008-08-29 04:41pm

Ender wrote:For those decrying DZ's prediction, you might want to cruise some of the die hard sites. Argument being echoed there is that since McCain is a 1 termer, Palin will be the Republican nominee in 2012. Which means the Democrats will have to run a woman against them, which means Hillary. So by their bizarre logic, voting for McCain now means Hillary will win in 2012. I don't know how this will affect the mainliners, but the reluctant converts and diehards in the Democratic party are now looking at McCain with a gleam in their eye.

Oh, I have no doubt NoQuarter and such are being orgasmic. But it's such a blatant bit of theatre I can't take it seriously. They were screaming that picking a woman VP would be an insult to Hillary unless it was her, but now they change their tune.

What matters, in the end, is their numbers.

Flagg · Post by **Flagg** » 2008-08-29 04:56pm

This really is an unmitigated disaster for McCain. When he stands next to her he looks older and uglier than ever.

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2008-08-29 05:02pm

In short, they were going to vote McCain either way, the few that were left. The question is, whether a Creationist Alaskan Scandal Ridden Anti-Abortion Pork-Loving Woman can avoid pissing off enough people to make it a no-loss game for McCain.

What scandal, and what pork? I thought she was the one who got rid of that Bridge to Nowhere thing.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2008-08-29 05:04pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote:
In short, they were going to vote McCain either way, the few that were left. The question is, whether a Creationist Alaskan Scandal Ridden Anti-Abortion Pork-Loving Woman can avoid pissing off enough people to make it a no-loss game for McCain.
What scandal, and what pork? I thought she was the one who got rid of that Bridge to Nowhere thing.

Page 4, of this thread.

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2008-08-29 05:06pm

That's it? The man tasered his own son, and hasn't actually been fired by the guy Palin replaced the old Commissioner.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2008-08-29 05:08pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote:That's it? The man tasered his own son, and hasn't actually been fired by the guy Palin replaced the old Commissioner.

The scandal was over the potential abuse of authority, rather than what the man necessarily did.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2008-08-29 05:09pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote:
In short, they were going to vote McCain either way, the few that were left. The question is, whether a Creationist Alaskan Scandal Ridden Anti-Abortion Pork-Loving Woman can avoid pissing off enough people to make it a no-loss game for McCain.
What scandal, and what pork? I thought she was the one who got rid of that Bridge to Nowhere thing.

Do you believe everything Republicans say?

Scandal

Former Department of Public Safety Commissioner Walt Monegan on Friday said that since Gov. Sarah Palin took office, members of her administration and family pressured him to fire a Palmer Alaska State Trooper to whom her sister was involved in a bitter child custody battle.

Relevent bit quoted. There's an investigation underway.

As for pork? When the Bridge To Nowhere was killed, she quickly schemed to keep every dime. And, of course, there's this simple reality:

Link

Arizona, the second fastest growing state in the nation, will receive just $18.70 per capita in federal earmarks this fiscal year. By comparison, Alaska — with roughly a tenth of Arizona's population — is set to receive $506.34 per capita, the highest in the nation, according to Taxpayers for Common Sense, a watchdog group which tracks earmarks.

Reality Vs. Republicans, with the usual outcome.

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2008-08-29 05:11pm

SirNitram wrote:Do you believe everything Republicans say?

Scandal

Former Department of Public Safety Commissioner Walt Monegan on Friday said that since Gov. Sarah Palin took office, members of her administration and family pressured him to fire a Palmer Alaska State Trooper to whom her sister was involved in a bitter child custody battle.

Scandal sounds a bit bullshit to me, just on the face of it. If she'd wanted the guy fired, wouldn't she have had the new commissioner fire him? He's still got his job, as far as I know.

Big Phil · Post by **Big Phil** » 2008-08-29 05:11pm

Ender wrote:For those decrying DZ's prediction, you might want to cruise some of the die hard sites. Argument being echoed there is that since McCain is a 1 termer, Palin will be the Republican nominee in 2012. Which means the Democrats will have to run a woman against them, which means Hillary. So by their bizarre logic, voting for McCain now means Hillary will win in 2012. I don't know how this will affect the mainliners, but the reluctant converts and diehards in the Democratic party are now looking at McCain with a gleam in their eye. And dismissing them is not a good plan. One could reasonably assume that most of them were going to stay home in November rather then follow through on the promise to vote McCain. Particularly since it was only a few of the loudest claiming that. Now they go from being neutral to opponents. This really upset the field, and thinking otherwise is a disservice.

Like I asked Duchess, show me evidence and hard numbers. Blogs and websites where loudmouths screech at the top of their lungs don't represent the 80% of Clinton voters who already indicated they'd vote Obama. I doubt they even represent the other 20%, who were probably voting based on skin color only.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2008-08-29 05:13pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote:
SirNitram wrote:Do you believe everything Republicans say?

Scandal

Former Department of Public Safety Commissioner Walt Monegan on Friday said that since Gov. Sarah Palin took office, members of her administration and family pressured him to fire a Palmer Alaska State Trooper to whom her sister was involved in a bitter child custody battle.
Scandal sounds a bit bullshit to me, just on the face of it. If she'd wanted the guy fired, wouldn't she have had the new commissioner fire him? He's still got his job, as far as I know.

Being under an investigation isn't exactly a vote of confidence for this theory of 'Should've', Chewie. Proximity to Ted Stevens whose currently indicted is not going to help, though she's scrubbed his out and out endorsement from her site.

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2008-08-29 05:16pm

A new internet term:

VPILF

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2008-08-29 05:17pm

Fail. Everyone knows the Leprechaun Coallition's candidate, Kuncinich, had a hotter potential VPILF.

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2008-08-29 05:19pm

SirNitram wrote:Fail. Everyone knows the Leprechaun Coallition's candidate, Kuncinich, had a hotter potential VPILF.

Really? Who was Kucinich's VP? I know he has a hot FLILF (First Lady) but I didn't know about a vp.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2008-08-29 05:34pm

SancheztheWhaler wrote:
Ender wrote:For those decrying DZ's prediction, you might want to cruise some of the die hard sites. Argument being echoed there is that since McCain is a 1 termer, Palin will be the Republican nominee in 2012. Which means the Democrats will have to run a woman against them, which means Hillary. So by their bizarre logic, voting for McCain now means Hillary will win in 2012. I don't know how this will affect the mainliners, but the reluctant converts and diehards in the Democratic party are now looking at McCain with a gleam in their eye. And dismissing them is not a good plan. One could reasonably assume that most of them were going to stay home in November rather then follow through on the promise to vote McCain. Particularly since it was only a few of the loudest claiming that. Now they go from being neutral to opponents. This really upset the field, and thinking otherwise is a disservice.
Like I asked Duchess, show me evidence and hard numbers. Blogs and websites where loudmouths screech at the top of their lungs don't represent the 80% of Clinton voters who already indicated they'd vote Obama. I doubt they even represent the other 20%, who were probably voting based on skin color only.

Hey fuckhead, try reading what I said before trying to refute me by agreeing with me.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2008-08-29 05:39pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote:
SirNitram wrote:Fail. Everyone knows the Leprechaun Coallition's candidate, Kuncinich, had a hotter potential VPILF.
Really? Who was Kucinich's VP? I know he has a hot FLILF (First Lady) but I didn't know about a vp.

I remember incorrectly, you are correct.

Brain fart, caused by McCain's tendency to chase any younger skirt for personal advancement.

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2008-08-29 05:58pm

SirNitram wrote:
CaptainChewbacca wrote:
SirNitram wrote:Fail. Everyone knows the Leprechaun Coallition's candidate, Kuncinich, had a hotter potential VPILF.
Really? Who was Kucinich's VP? I know he has a hot FLILF (First Lady) but I didn't know about a vp.
I remember incorrectly, you are correct.

Brain fart, caused by McCain's tendency to chase any younger skirt for personal advancement.

Watch the announcement for Palin. He keeps twisting his wedding ring and staring at her boobs.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2008-08-29 06:04pm

Link

Link to a pic that says it all.