(TF2)Meet the Sandvich

[Ford Prefect]

I know it's said in the "Meet the" video, but how many bullets is $200,000 worth? I.E., how many times will I have to reload in order to get that achievement?

It's technically six second of fire, according to the Heavy, but it should be about a thousand rounds, which is five full reloads, I think.

[Tanasinn]

Heavy says that it "costs 200,000 dollars to fire this weapon for twelve seconds." Technically, though, a single round of ammunition fired from the minigun is four bullets, so that might muddle things.

Really, if you want the achievement, stand next to a dispenser and unload.

[Uraniun235]

Kritz-soldier is probably best on Dustbowl on the final assault when all the dudes are clustering around the final cap point.


Alternately, kritz the Demoman and let the stickies fly.

[Ford Prefect]

Heavy says that it "costs 200,000 dollars to fire this weapon for twelve seconds."

I'm fairly certain he says four hundred thousand - which is what it works out to mathematically. I know he's no the sharpest knife in the drawer, but he would know his weapon.

Technically, though, a single round of ammunition fired from the minigun is four bullets, so that might muddle things.

Okay, ignore me then.

[2000AD]

In the video he says the bullets are $200 each, fire at 10,000rpm and that it costs $400,000 to fire for 12 seconds.

So strictly that's 1000 bullets in 6 seconds for $200,000.

I reckon for the achievement they'll be going on firing 1000 in game bullets, firing for a combined total of 6 seconds in a single life would be a total joke for an achievement.

[defanatic]

I reckon for the achievement they'll be going on firing 1000 in game bullets, firing for a combined total of 6 seconds in a single life would be a total joke for an achievement.

It certainly seems that way. You have to shoot for ages to get it.

[Rogue 9]

You call that breaking my spine?

You Red Team ladies wouldn't know how to break a spine if... AUGH, MY SPINE!

I just might have to get this game now.

[Loner]

I reckon for the achievement they'll be going on firing 1000 in game bullets, firing for a combined total of 6 seconds in a single life would be a total joke for an achievement.

It certainly seems that way. You have to shoot for ages to get it.

I got it, by standing next to a dispenser and firing non-stop for two minutes.

[Darth Raptor]

I just might have to get this game now.

I'm pretty baffled at why I haven't already. I've been meaning to play TF2 since it came out I just... haven't. For some reason. This game looks so far up my alley it's arrived back out on the thoroughfare.

[Admiral Valdemar]

I don't know, I always preferred The Spy.

[The Vortex Empire]

It'd be nice if Microsoft would stop being assholes and allow Valve to release the updates for free on the Xbox 360 version, since my computer wouldn't be able to handle TF2.

[White Haven]

Valve should release the updates for pay on the Xbox, then send an account credit for each one they get, very publically. See how long Microsoft likes that level of bad press.

[Steel]

Valve should release the updates for pay on the Xbox, then send an account credit for each one they get, very publically. See how long Microsoft likes that level of bad press.

Considering that microsoft will almost certainly be taking a cut on each sale, i think they'll be very happy for it to continue.

[White Haven]

Interesting quote from a recent interview with Gabe Newell I ran across.

Q: Do you find the boxed copy model and the slowness of the industry to react to what you’re saying frustrating?
A: We’re mainly concerned about what our customers think, and they’re… rewarding us by buying lots of copies. Each time we do an update there’s a 20 percent uptake in Team Fortress 2 sales, so that tells us pretty clearly that we’re doing the right thing.

Wow...you mean that when a company keeps supporting a game...they get...customers...and..sales? WOW, who would have fucking thought. Here's hoping the industry reads that line and thinks over it long and hard.

Full interview here.

[Anarchist Bunny]

Interesting quote from a recent interview with Gabe Newell I ran across.

Q: Do you find the boxed copy model and the slowness of the industry to react to what you’re saying frustrating?
A: We’re mainly concerned about what our customers think, and they’re… rewarding us by buying lots of copies. Each time we do an update there’s a 20 percent uptake in Team Fortress 2 sales, so that tells us pretty clearly that we’re doing the right thing.

Wow...you mean that when a company keeps supporting a game...they get...customers...and..sales? WOW, who would have fucking thought. Here's hoping the industry reads that line and thinks over it long and hard.

Full interview here.

Plus each time they do one of these updates, they let everyone play the full version of the game for FREE for a three day weekend. I know a couple people that were sold on that experience.

Which would work in very few games nowadays seeing as how gameplay time is getting shorter and shorter, and the counter to that is making you backtrack like a mother fucker.

[Terralthra]

i'm sorry but the notion that the Pyro should have the second most fucking health of all the classes is retarded pyrophiliac bullshit

Yeah, totally. The one class that absolutely *has* to get in the middle of any furball, eating crossfire from every direction imaginable, should totally not have much health at all. What the hell was Valve thinking?

[Ford Prefect]

Yeah, totally. The one class that absolutely *has* to get in the middle of any furball, eating crossfire from every direction imaginable, should totally not have much health at all. What the hell was Valve thinking?

From my experience, the Pyro is much more effective in ambushing singular players or surprising and harassing small groups, which is probably why the Backburner was designed with the intent to be used in ambushing people. Frankly, I think it's fine that the Pyro is not particularly robust, because it forces you to use different tactics compared to a Soldier.

I was pretty terrible with Pyro, but I couldn't help but notice that if you don't get the drop on someone then you were basically screwed. Most kills Pyros have gotten on me are those where some prick in a blue asbestos suit has leaped out from behind door number three. I see no reason to change this, given that it's a pretty characterful way to play, and though I was bad at it, I had fun in the process.

[Molyneux]

Yeah, totally. The one class that absolutely *has* to get in the middle of any furball, eating crossfire from every direction imaginable, should totally not have much health at all. What the hell was Valve thinking?

From my experience, the Pyro is much more effective in ambushing singular players or surprising and harassing small groups, which is probably why the Backburner was designed with the intent to be used in ambushing people. Frankly, I think it's fine that the Pyro is not particularly robust, because it forces you to use different tactics compared to a Soldier.

I was pretty terrible with Pyro, but I couldn't help but notice that if you don't get the drop on someone then you were basically screwed. Most kills Pyros have gotten on me are those where some prick in a blue asbestos suit has leaped out from behind door number three. I see no reason to change this, given that it's a pretty characterful way to play, and though I was bad at it, I had fun in the process.

I had had mostly the same experience, until yesterday - I noticed that Pyros now are starting to circle-strafe, making it a LOT harder to keep fire on them long enough to kill them before the enhanced damage they deal at close range kills you.

Then again, I WAS playng a Heavy - does that class' reduced movement rate carry over to turning speed?

[Uraniun235]

i'm sorry but the notion that the Pyro should have the second most fucking health of all the classes is retarded pyrophiliac bullshit

Yeah, totally. The one class that absolutely *has* to get in the middle of any furball, eating crossfire from every direction imaginable, should totally not have much health at all. What the hell was Valve thinking?

The one class that absolutely *has* to get in the middle of any furball

*has* to get in the middle of any furball

retarded pyrophiliac detected



The Pyro can jump into a big furball with 175hp and set all offending parties on fire easily. It's whether or not the Pyro can do so and kill everybody, or can do so and survive (which is not always necessary in order to be an effective team player).

Seriously, a big part of the issue is that the Pyro is also pretty fast; the only dudes faster than him are the Scout and the Medic. Suddenly, with 225hp the Pyro is not about "ambush" and "sneak attacks", he's about "I'm gonna charge at you and burn you and you're not gonna be able to stop me." You might manage to kill the Pyro and you might survive being set on fire, but you're not going to be able to kill him before he can set you on fire. Do you really think this is what the class should be?

[Terralthra]

The Pyro can jump into a big furball with 175hp and set all offending parties on fire easily. It's whether or not the Pyro can do so and kill everybody, or can do so and survive (which is not always necessary in order to be an effective team player).

Seriously, a big part of the issue is that the Pyro is also pretty fast; the only dudes faster than him are the Scout and the Medic. Suddenly, with 225hp the Pyro is not about "ambush" and "sneak attacks", he's about "I'm gonna charge at you and burn you and you're not gonna be able to stop me." You might manage to kill the Pyro and you might survive being set on fire, but you're not going to be able to kill him before he can set you on fire. Do you really think this is what the class should be?

Things that can stop a Pyro from getting close enough to burn you:
Demoman's grenades
Heavy's Natascha
Engineer's Level 2+ turret
Another Pyro's compression blast (which the Backburner lacks)
Soldier's rockets

So, let's see, out of nine classes, five of them have ways to keep Pyros at a distance. Of the four that do not, two of them can outrun a Pyro (Scout, Medic), and the other two are classes that Pyro is intended to foil (Sniper, Spy). It's deceptive to say that only two are faster than him, because only three are slower than him. He's the median/mode speed.

Do I think that's the way the Pyro is supposed to be? I'm not sure. I think +50 may have been too much, or perhaps the 175 was too high to begin with, but I think an HP increase to compensate for the missing compression blast was reasonable, given that Soldiers completely and utterly destroy Pyros without CB. I do know that I don't think any of the classes are designed as kamikazes, because team-based or not, that's not very fun.

[Uraniun235]

Not every engineer is going to (or should) be hiding behind a turret (but then engineers should be pretty weak in direct combat anyway).

If a Pyro is hitting another Pyro with compression blast, he's not doing any damage.

Natascha not only wasn't introduced until last week, but isn't even equipped by every Heavy. If you think the latter isn't a problem, keep in mind that the game should be fully playable and enjoyable by someone who doesn't have a single achievement under their belt.

The grenades and rockets require a higher level of skill to pull off than charging at the enemy with a flamethrower. Let's also not forget that there's not only the 1v1 situation to contend with, but also the group effect; a 225 Pyro plus a medic is arguably more durable than a Heavy+medic, because while the Heavy has more health, the Pyro has way more mobility and still does a huge amount of damage at close range.

I do know that I don't think any of the classes are designed as kamikazes, because team-based or not, that's not very fun.

Just because the Pyro can jump into a big melee and set them all on fire, at the expense of his own life, doesn't mean that's his purpose; it's just another option, which may or may not be the best way to support his team at any given time. As Ford pointed out, another function is to lurk around corners and ambush individuals or small groups... which, if I remember the Valve commentary right, is how the Pyro was envisioned to function, and is why the Backburner was touted as "oh hey if you AMBUSH somebody from behind, you get crit damage!"

The Pyro is plenty effective as-is, I don't think he's gimped at only 175hp. This is coming from a dude who enjoys playing as Pyro.

[Anarchist Bunny]

I'm really not to upset about the loss of the +50hp, its just that the range of what the Backburner considers "back" (unlike the 360 defination the knife tends to have) is so small, than you gain almost nothing over the loss of the Air Compression blast and thus have no reason to use it.

The biggest, hugest, fan cock sucking move was removing the increased damage of point blank rockets. It negates the air compression blast entirely, unless you catch at a reload, because you can't use the air compression blast at point blank. So the Soldier is still the king of close combat because he takes less than 50 damage from a melee range rocket and blows Pryos to hell in a hit. Giving the soldier a damn good reason not to use the Rockets at close range(or at least requiring a little talent in firing them at the ground near the attacker so he takes the rocket jump level damage and not the full) makes pryo's a semidecent counter to soldiers, especially with the air compression blast allowing them to get close enough that the soldier either kamikaze's or has to switch to shotgun and hope for a critical. And anyone that plays a match that turns into Soldier Fortress Two knows that. A large number of soldiers is harder to counter than a large number of any other class(unless its a shit map with a ton of Sniper whores).

Probably the worst TF2 change since making it so Pipes can explode with out a bounce.