Update: McCain's VP not in Constitution party. Husband was.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2008-09-02 12:31am

CmdrWilkens wrote:Regardless of how much it helps (or hurts) amongst unreformed Confederates what this is very likely to do is completely undercut what was left of the "country first" meme that McCain had going for him. When the person you pick opnely aligned themselves with folks advocating a partial disintigration of the union (and oddly enough Biden could get a shitload of Lincoln quotes out of this one) it kills a lot of the love my country more than the other guy theme.

True. WHich shocks me that he didnt do more vetting. I mean, he should have done what sane people do and looked at where she was from.

"Hmm... Alaska... we need to make sure she is not one of the larger percentage of the states tiny population that is fucking crazy"

I mean. I am from alaska, and I am fucking nuts.

There are only a few type of people that live in alaska.

Left wing crazies that move there to get away from civilization
Right Wing crazies that move there to get away from civilization (dad)
People like me that were born there and liked being close to nature (I had to leave though)
People that fucked up and move there to restart their lives (mom)
Normal people that for whatever reason get stuck there.
Normal people lured there by employment in whatever industry or public service that is hiring at the time (fishing industry, need for teachers, pilots, military etc)
Natives

Huge portions of the population are in the first 4 crazy categories

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2008-09-02 02:49pm

Link

An intense "she said"/"she said" has emerged over whether Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin was ever a member of the Alaskan Independence Party, the third-largest political party in the 49th state. The AIP wants Alaskans to get an opportunity to vote on whether or not they will remain a state, or become a commonwealth, or split off as an independent nation.

Officials of the AIP say Palin was once a member, but the McCain campaign -- providing what it says is complete voter registration documentation -- says Palin has been according to official records a lifelong Republican.

(Which to be honest seems more in keeping with the ambitious pol. Republicans have a much better track record than the AIP.)

As part of their pushback against the charges of Lynette and Dexter Clark of the AIP, the McCain campaign says that Palin did not even attend the AIP convention in Wasilla in 1994.

But another former AIP official -- Mark Chryson, chairman of the AIP from 1995 to 2002 -- tells ABC News that "Palin was at the convention in 1994. She was there."

Was she a member?

Chryson can’t say. "She may have been, I do not know," he says. Their records don't go back that far.

"Ask Sarah," he suggests.

I'd love to. But she hasn't exactly been making herself available to the press.

For her part, Ms. Clark -- a self-employed gold miner who wants Alaska to become an independent nation -- says that the McCain campaign pushback that Pain was never part of the AIP is "hooey."

"This is like a cat covering up crap in its litter box," she says.

'NO! NO! SHE'S NOT A SECESSIONIST! WE SWEAR!' Okay. Records showing she's always been in the Republican party. That's some.. Hang on.

Link

...Complicating matters, Marc Ambinder has a video of a AIP leader explaining that party members "must 'infiltrate' -- his words -- the other two parties and push for the cause of Alaskan independence."..

...Perhaps they should think very carefully about their next rebuttal.

cosmicalstorm · Post by **cosmicalstorm** » 2008-09-02 02:55pm

Joe Scarborough and Pat Buchanan talks about Palin a couple of days before McCain picked her

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTbsbeY5k5k

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2008-09-02 05:31pm

cosmicalstorm wrote:Joe Scarborough and Pat Buchanan talks about Palin a couple of days before McCain picked her
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTbsbeY5k5k

Scarborough was pretty frickin hilarious in that clip.

I'm still kind of surprised about there being a secessionist party in Alaska. I can understand the mindset and Alyrium makes some very good and interesting points about the people who live there, but to actually belong to such a party and think it's going to get any real sort of traction is crazy. There is no frickin' way that the US would ever let Alaska just go. There are too many resources locked up in that area to let it just go off on its own after all this time.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2008-09-02 05:51pm

Tsyroc wrote:
cosmicalstorm wrote:Joe Scarborough and Pat Buchanan talks about Palin a couple of days before McCain picked her
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTbsbeY5k5k
Scarborough was pretty frickin hilarious in that clip.

I'm still kind of surprised about there being a secessionist party in Alaska. I can understand the mindset and Alyrium makes some very good and interesting points about the people who live there, but to actually belong to such a party and think it's going to get any real sort of traction is crazy. There is no frickin' way that the US would ever let Alaska just go. There are too many resources locked up in that area to let it just go off on its own after all this time.

Oh, Alaska could be... rather difficult to hold if the population didnt want the feds there... they could intimidate with nukes I suppose but really... 1 person per square mile, and most of the wilderness nuts are armed. Just covering the territory and preventing insurgency would be... special. Not impossible, but hair-pullingly special.

Pelranius · Post by **Pelranius** » 2008-09-02 07:47pm

Can't be anymore harder than Iraq or Afghanistan, can it?

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2008-09-02 07:48pm

Try "unconfirmed." In fact, Clark's statements are a whole bunch of bullshit, served cold, with a side of lies.

Palin did attend an AIP convention -- which, in a state where the Party once polled above one-third of total votes in a gubernatorial race less than a decade prior, and where the AIP is one of those third parties that "calls the Big Two to task," as with the Conservatives (and once, the Liberals) in New York politics, is sound politics. It's hard to get worked up when one sees politicians kissing stinky babies.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2008-09-02 08:12pm

Tsyroc wrote:
cosmicalstorm wrote:Joe Scarborough and Pat Buchanan talks about Palin a couple of days before McCain picked her :lol:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTbsbeY5k5k
Scarborough was pretty frickin hilarious in that clip. :lol:

I'm still kind of surprised about there being a secessionist party in Alaska. I can understand the mindset and Alyrium makes some very good and interesting points about the people who live there, but to actually belong to such a party and think it's going to get any real sort of traction is crazy. There is no frickin' way that the US would ever let Alaska just go. There are too many resources locked up in that area to let it just go off on its own after all this time.

Not only has it gained traction, but the AIP has provided one governor for Alaska, Walter Joseph Hickel, a former Republican who switched parties and served one term as an AIP governor from 1991 - 1995.

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2008-09-02 08:16pm

...Perhaps they should think very carefully about their next rebuttal.

So, this is you, trampling all over "innocent, until proven guilty," and essentially crowing that . . . Palin could very well be a secret operative working from "the Inside" to promote Alaskan independence. Terrific. Can I buy tickets for your next routine, or do I just show up?

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2008-09-02 08:51pm

Axis Kast wrote:
...Perhaps they should think very carefully about their next rebuttal.
So, this is you, trampling all over "innocent, until proven guilty," and essentially crowing that . . . Palin could very well be a secret operative working from "the Inside" to promote Alaskan independence. Terrific. Can I buy tickets for your next routine, or do I just show up?

'Innocent until proven guilty' is a tenet of the legal system. You will note, or rather you won't, because you're a total reactionary moron flying into a predictable hissy fit, that I'm not part of the legal system, and that this is not a legal proceeding. Ergo, you can take your 'Innocent until proven guilty', and cramp it up your asshole.

Your sad attempts at trying to refute me are.. A BLOG POST! Worse, you're full of shit as usual; your 'rebuttal' is something I already referenced, you know, from a real source. Or are you so goddamn desperate here you snipped that phrase and didn't read the link to ABC where it referenced that claim?

Now. Bring evidence that hasn't already been introduced, or fuck off.

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2008-09-02 09:14pm

Alyrium Denryle wrote:The population is very disbursed, many people actually are self sufficient enough that they dont really benefit much from the federal government.

The majority of people may not "really benefit much," but overall Alaska receives $1.84 of Federal money for each $1.00 of Federal revenue they generate.

Palin also was apparently for the Bridge to Nowhere before she was against it. Also, while she may have "said no" to building the bridge, she took the money earmarked for it and used it elsewhere.

Also, while Palin may not have been officially a member of the AIP, her husband registered twice with them.

As if that weren't enough, she accepted money from the same fundraiser scheme as indicted ex-Senator Stevens.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2008-09-02 09:38pm

The Dark wrote:
Alyrium Denryle wrote:The population is very disbursed, many people actually are self sufficient enough that they dont really benefit much from the federal government.
The majority of people may not "really benefit much," but overall Alaska receives $1.84 of Federal money for each $1.00 of Federal revenue they generate.

Palin also was apparently for the Bridge to Nowhere before she was against it. Also, while she may have "said no" to building the bridge, she took the money earmarked for it and used it elsewhere.

Also, while Palin may not have been officially a member of the AIP, her husband registered twice with them.

As if that weren't enough, she accepted money from the same fundraiser scheme as indicted ex-Senator Stevens.

You realize that I am so left wing it hurts even my head, and that I am not supporting her riiiight? I am just ORIGINALLY FROM ALASKA. I know the state, I know the people that live there, and I know people that voted for Governor Hickel. I was merely explaining the Crazy Demographics, and the mindset. So perhaps, just perhaps, you should try to avoid breaking your nose with your own knee-jerk. Thanks.

To explain the federal fund thing... Alaska does not pay much in federal taxes. There are not many rich people. Most of the people living in Alaska, are either middle class, or wilderness hermits.

My family was comprised of land-owning, lower middle class wilderness hermits! We were wilderness hermits that had electricity most of the year and went to public school! YAY!

Either way, the per capita (mean) income is around 22 thousand dollars. But there are not many people, just barely more than exist in Mesa Arizona, which is geographically tiny by comparison. Alaska is bigger than texas.

What does this mean? The feds still have to meet their obligations to the state. Highway funds, education funds if applicable. For the education they have to independently fund a lot of tiny little school districts. For the roads they have to provide funds to build and maintain the highway system.

The end result is that you end up spending more money for a small number of people. But because most of the population is dispersed, they might not often see the fruit of the federal governments labor, or just not think about it.

As for the Bridge to Nowhere... I am of mixed feelings. On the one hand, it was a bridge to a small town. Not an island of nothingness. On the other hand, that is something that could have been handled at the state level and/or the people of that town have boats...

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2008-09-02 09:58pm

Just stating the levels of Federal funds compared to revenues, Aly. I know you're at least as left-wing as I am; the rest of the post was providing links to support various things mentioned in the thread. And I'm somewhat aware of the odd demographics, since my best friend in elementary school was the son of two AIP members

.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2008-09-02 10:05pm

Mother Jones is reporting the source is backing off identifying Sarah Palin as a member, though her husband still was. Since I'm unaware of their credibility, I'll hold off on removing the confirmed until either a better source echoes it or someone gives a good reason to trust this publication.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2008-09-02 11:01pm

While asking around on the validity of the withdrawl, this showed up...

Link

How fundie are the AIP?

Constitution Party state party. Link

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2008-09-02 11:08pm

'Innocent until proven guilty' is a tenet of the legal system. You will note, or rather you won't, because you're a total reactionary moron flying into a predictable hissy fit, that I'm not part of the legal system, and that this is not a legal proceeding. Ergo, you can take your 'Innocent until proven guilty', and cramp it up your asshole.

Your sad attempts at trying to refute me are.. A BLOG POST! Worse, you're full of shit as usual; your 'rebuttal' is something I already referenced, you know, from a real source. Or are you so goddamn desperate here you snipped that phrase and didn't read the link to ABC where it referenced that claim?

Now. Bring evidence that hasn't already been introduced, or fuck off.

Mother Jones is perfectly credible. You may investigate their entry in Wikipedia for yourself. Clearly, Palin did not belong to the AIP.

I'm not required to bring evidence here. In point of fact, you are, if your claim is that Palin intends to use her position as a springboard from which to advance the politics of the AIP. Which is, by the way, a theory so preposterous, it makes you a wacko.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2008-09-02 11:12pm

Axis Kast wrote:Mother Jones is perfectly credible. You may investigate their entry in Wikipedia for yourself. Clearly, Palin did not belong to the AIP.

Very well. After this reply is posted, the title shall be adjusted.

I'm not required to bring evidence here. In point of fact, you are, if your claim is that Palin intends to use her position as a springboard from which to advance the politics of the AIP. Which is, by the way, a theory so preposterous, it makes you a wacko.

Uh-huh. The reactionary retard who thinks he can use blog posts and illogical bullshit to rebutt thinks I'm a whacko. Were you of any importance whatsoever, I might feel offended.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2008-09-02 11:15pm

This woman's scandals don't die.. Title updated to include the fact that her husband -was- in it. According to state officials.

Link

ST. PAUL, Minn. (AP) — Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin's husband, Todd, twice registered as a member of the Alaskan Independence Party, a fierce states' rights group that wants to turn all federal lands in Alaska back to the state. Sarah Palin herself was never a member of the party, according to state officials.

Todd Palin's party affiliation emerged Tuesday as the latest issue confronting the McCain campaign as it prepared to introduce Gov. Palin to the Republican National Convention.

The McCain campaign on Tuesday forcefully worked to tamp down questions about Sarah Palin's association with the Independence Party and with former presidential candidate Pat Buchanan that were being raised by Democrats, Internet bloggers and even Independence Party officials.

Voter registration records and past news reports, however, show Palin never registered as a member of the Independence Party, and backed Steve Forbes' presidential campaign in 2000, not Buchanan.

"Supporters of Barack Obama are engaged in an unfortunate and nasty smear campaign," McCain spokesman Brian Rogers said, specifically citing issues related to Palin's politics.

Gail Fenumiai, director of the Alaska Division of Elections, said Todd Palin twice registered under the Alaskan Independence Party — in 1995 and 2000. Some party leaders have advocated secession from the United States, though that is not a goal listed in the party's platform.

Voter registration records show Sarah Palin registered in May 1982 as a member of the Republican Party and has not changed her affiliation. Todd Palin has been registered undeclared since 2002, Fenumiai said.

Palin did address the Alaskan Independence Party's state convention by video earlier this year, welcoming the party to Fairbanks.

"Your party plays an important role in our state's politics," she said in the video, which is posted on the party's Web site. "I've always said that competition is so good, and that applies to political parties as well."

Obama spokesman Bill Burton objected to Rogers's accusation of a smear. He pointed to comments by Lynette Clark, the chairman of the AIP, who told ABC News that Palin and her husband, Todd, belonged to the party in 1994.

Obama advisers and surrogates have linked Palin to conservative former presidential candidate Pat Buchanan. An Associated Press story from Alaska, dated July 17, 1999, stated that Palin, then the mayor of the small town of Wasilla, was wearing a Buchanan button during a Buchanan visit to Alaska.

But in a letter to the Anchorage Daily News a week later, Palin wrote: "When presidential candidates visit our community, I am always happy to meet them. I'll even put on their button when handed one as a polite gesture of respect. ... The article may have left your readers with the perception that I am endorsing this candidate, as opposed to welcoming his visit to Wasilla."

A week after that, the Associated Press reported that Palin would serve as a co-chair of Forbes' campaign.

Buchanan himself told MSNBC's Chris Matthews last week that Palin "was a brigadier in 1996 as was her husband ... They were at a fundraiser for me, she's a terrific gal, she's a rebel reformer."

McCain spokesman Michael Goldfarb disputed Buchanan's claim, saying Palin supported Forbes in 1996 as well.

The Miami Herald this week quoted an e-mail from Obama Florida spokesman Mark Bubriski that stated: "Palin was a supporter of Pat Buchanan, a right-winger or as many Jews call him: a Nazi sympathizer."

Bubriski, could we get through the story without Godwin? Gah.. It never ends.

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2008-09-02 11:25pm

The whole episode still raises serious questions about her sympathies or her judgment in pandering (that 'welcoming' video) to a fringe party that wants to separate from the USA.

Maybe things *are* somewhat different in Alaska, but here in the lower 48 we don't look kindly (except for the Confederate apologists, but I suspect a lot of whom would be aghast at the idea of Alaska leaving the USA) towards separatists.

The Obama campaign shouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole, but MoveOn or some other group could make a killer ad with this, ending with the tagline 'Which country first, Sarah?'.

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2008-09-02 11:29pm

Bubriski, could we get through the story without Godwin? Gah.. It never ends.

Heh..
Years ago radio talker Jaz Mackay in Cleveland once said that Pat Buchanan proved it is possible to goose step in wingtips.

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2008-09-02 11:34pm

Uh-huh. The reactionary retard who thinks he can use blog posts and illogical bullshit to rebutt thinks I'm a whacko. Were you of any importance whatsoever, I might feel offended.

Nice try. The blog had plenty of links to the various sources -- meaning that what you're doing is complaining about the medium, rather than actually weighing in with valid criticisms about the content. Did you even read the thing, or did you just bank on your ability to shoot around big talk about how big you are on the Internet?

This is becoming a habit with you, Nitram. Running around making wild accusations about Republicans or the Republican Party without a shred of fact at the core to back up what are otherwise purely fantasies designed to gratify your own need to be "right" about a boogeyman.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2008-09-02 11:37pm

Kast, blog posts are not considered usable here. They haven't been before, and you are not special.

Further, your accusals really mean precisely shit. You keep on whining about this 'habit' you see and can only substantiate with illogical rebuttals. Really, 'innocent until proven guilty' was your retort, and that's enough for you to prove you're a looney tune.

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2008-09-02 11:39pm

Axis Kast wrote:Mother Jones is perfectly credible. You may investigate their entry in Wikipedia for yourself. Clearly, Palin did not belong to the AIP.

I'm not required to bring evidence here. In point of fact, you are, if your claim is that Palin intends to use her position as a springboard from which to advance the politics of the AIP. Which is, by the way, a theory so preposterous, it makes you a wacko.

Pull your head from your ass and watch this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwvPNXYrIyI

So, her husband is a member of a group that wants to remove one of the fifty states and she does promo videos for them. Yep, you're right: no chance in hell she actually supports secession -something her party's first president fought a vicious war to stop.

Enigma · Post by **Enigma** » 2008-09-02 11:46pm

This reminds me of the brouhaha a few years ago here in Canada over the PM's choice of choosing Michaelle(sp?) Jean as Governor General while her husband was an avid(?) Quebec separatist and that she had was also a citizen of France. But after a while it died down and it was forgotten.

Somehow I don't think it will die down with McCain\Palin until either they win\lose the election.

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2008-09-02 11:47pm

The fact is that the AIP has been a 'secession' party from its very beginning.
Local popularity notwithstanding, the point remains that a candidate for a nationwide office welcomed their convention.

Just imagine the fucking uproar if the Governor of Idaho had made a similar welcoming video for the Aryan Nations.

Where I come from, the word used to describe the AIP's platform is 'treasonous'.
Strong language? Sure it is, but on the other hand the legality of seceding from the USA was settled 140 years ago.