UK millionaire kills family and himself

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UK millionaire kills family and himself

Post by mr friendly guy »

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=624881
A one-time millionaire businessman in financial difficulties shot his wife and daughter dead before setting their luxury mansion ablaze and killing himself, British police say.

Christopher Foster's body was found next to that of his wife, Jill, 49, who had been shot in the head, in their burned-out mansion in Maesbrook in western England.

A third body is believed to be that of the couple's 15-year-old daughter Kirstie, although identification is still pending.

Foster owed more than 800,000 pounds ($A1.7 million) to creditors after his oil pipeline insulation business, Ulva Ltd, went into liquidation last year.

Police said closed-circuit television footage taken a week ago at the mansion showed a man who resembled Foster carrying a rifle.

The cameras, which somehow escaped the blaze, captured the man driving a vehicle to gate of the estate, then stepping out and shooting the tyres in an apparent attempt to delay emergency vehicles.

He then paced around the mansion, evidently aware he was being recorded. At one point he stopped and gestured to a camera.

"We believe that Mr Foster killed his wife and daughter before setting the fires, " said West Mercia Police Detective Superintendent John Groves. "We believe Mr Foster took his own life after setting the house alight."

The Foster family was last seen at a neighbour's barbecue on August 25. The family returned home that evening, and Kirstie is thought to have stayed up messaging friends online.

She and Mrs Foster are believed to have gone to bed at around 1am while Mr Foster stayed up fretting over his financial woes, the UK's Telegraph reported.

Police believe Mr Foster shot his wife and daughter sometime before 4am with a legally-owned .22 calibre rifle, the newspaper said.

He allegedly then went outside the 1.2 million pound ($A2.5 million) country house and shot the family's three horses and dogs, before driving the vehicle to block the gates as seen on the security vision.

It is believed he subsequently doused the mansion's surrounding buildings with petrol or another flammable liquid, then collected his gun and marched back into the mansion.

He is thought to have shot himself by the body of his wife at around 4.45am.

Investigators had to wait three days to get into the house because of the heat and falling debris. After entering the property on Friday, search teams discovered the bodies of Mr Foster, 50, and his 49-year-old wife. The third body was found along with a rifle and unspent cartridges.

Earlier this year, Foster was ordered to appear in court after another company claimed he owed them money. A judge ruled in May that Foster had stripped Ulva of its assets and transferred them to a new company. The judge said Foster was "bereft of the basic instinct of commercial morality" and "couldn't be trusted."

Although Kirstie's body hasn't been formally identified, her friends on the online social networking group Bebo paid tribute to her.

A close friend called Ben wrote on her webpage: "I still can't believe this has happened!!! I was away in America and I come back to all this."

Another friend, Samantha, said: "Seriously, how could this happen when just a few weeks back I was sitting next to you in chemistry? It just doesn't make sense. Everything just feels so weird and confusing and it will never be the same without you."
Its a tragedy, but can someone explain why he didn't just sell his 1.2 million pound house to help pay off his 0.8 million pound debt? He might not owe 100% of the house, but it would help.

Moreover he at least 3 luxury cars in his garage (see the pictures from the article linked) as well as the car he drove to the gate along with horses. Why couldn't he just sell these?

Does it not occur to people to just scale back a bit, sell some assets and live less luxuriously?
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Post by Bounty »

Does it not occur to people to just scale back a bit, sell some assets and live less luxuriously?
The fact that he took his family with him strongly suggests there's more at play here than a fear of not being able to pay his debt. He may have snapped due to the perceived shame of letting his business fail; even if he dug his way out financially, he'd still have to live with the fact that he 'failed' as an entrepeneur, and while that would still leave him with a life that many would envy - wife, kid, probably decent finances if he scaled back and got a new job - the blow to his self-esteem, especially if he valued himself based on his professional success, could easily have driven him over the edge.

I think it's useless to look for rational reasons why he may have done this. Even if he situation was significantly worse than it was, he may not have been able to cope mentally with his own failure.
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Post by dragon »

I don't understand why people that kill themselves must take other with them. When I was seriously contemplating killing myself no where did it enter in my mide to take others with me even the ones that were the main sources of my depression.
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Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

Well, it's quite possible the house was on a mortgage, and that the house hasn't been paid yet and the housing situation in UK is pretty damn bad.

Or the house was a collateral. Take your pick.
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Post by Bounty »

I don't understand why people that kill themselves must take other with them.
If you're so far gone that you can't bring yourself to keep on living, I suppose it can make sense - in a twisted sort of way - to end the 'suffering' of those you love as well. Maybe he just didn't want to leave them living in poverty and grief over his suicide?

There's been a few cases like this here over the years - young, affluent families that are faced with financial or personal difficulties where one of the parents decides to finish everyone off. Just a few weeks ago a mother killed her children and botched her own suicide, and 'compassion' was basically the reason she tried to take her children with her. A desperate mind works in weird ways.
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Post by Zac Naloen »

Its a tragedy, but can someone explain why he didn't just sell his 1.2 million pound house to help pay off his 0.8 million pound debt? He might not owe 100% of the house, but it would help.

His house was legally locked by the people he was indebted to.

Seems completely unfair to me, but it's the reason he couldn't sell.
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Post by Big Orange »

dragon wrote:I don't understand why people that kill themselves must take other with them. When I was seriously contemplating killing myself no where did it enter in my mide to take others with me even the ones that were the main sources of my depression.
Because people who murder their entire family before usually taking their own worthless life are almost alway immensely selfish and narcissistic fuckers who do this to spite their spouse and children, their wider circle of 'friends' and surviving family members.
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Post by Bounty »

Big Orange wrote:
dragon wrote:I don't understand why people that kill themselves must take other with them. When I was seriously contemplating killing myself no where did it enter in my mide to take others with me even the ones that were the main sources of my depression.
Because people who murder their entire family before usually taking their own worthless life are almost alway immensely selfish and narcissistic fuckers who do this to spite their spouse and children, their wider circle of 'friends' and surviving family members.
You base this nuanced and carefully-worded insight on what?
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Post by Big Orange »

Bounty wrote:
You base this nuanced and carefully-worded insight on what?
Sorry, I cannot defend parents killing their own children.

To be fair mothers who murder their children and often commit suicide are more often than not just mentally disturbed and they understandably react very irrationally to any crisis.

But this cunt who aired out his wife and daughter seemingly did it in a coldblooded and premeditated manner, when the banks were closing in on him for self-indulgently living beyond his means. He did not show any real responsibility to anybody and was overweeningly proud of himself. Fuck him.
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Post by Darth Wong »

Big Orange wrote:Sorry, I cannot defend parents killing their own children.
No one is asking you to do so, for fuck's sake. There's a difference between "defending" an action and trying to understand what was wrong with the person who committed it, with some depth greater than "eeeeevil!!!!"
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Post by mr friendly guy »

Zac Naloen wrote:
Its a tragedy, but can someone explain why he didn't just sell his 1.2 million pound house to help pay off his 0.8 million pound debt? He might not owe 100% of the house, but it would help.

His house was legally locked by the people he was indebted too.

Seems completely unfair to me, but it's the reason he couldn't sell.
I don't suppose he was allowed to borrow against the house could he?
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Post by Patrick Degan »

Sounds like a family annihilator. In cases like this, the husband/father feels he cannot live with the legacy of failure as a provider, to which he's tied his identity so completely. When that underpinning is removed, the result is personality collapse and psychosis. Murder/suicide becomes quite possible.
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Re: UK millionaire kills family and himself

Post by Rye »

mr friendly guy wrote: Its a tragedy, but can someone explain why he didn't just sell his 1.2 million pound house to help pay off his 0.8 million pound debt?
He wasn't allowed to buy or sell it since it and all his equity was no longer his.
He might not owe 100% of the house, but it would help.

Moreover he at least 3 luxury cars in his garage (see the pictures from the article linked) as well as the car he drove to the gate along with horses. Why couldn't he just sell these?
See above. All his equity was in the hands of people who would dictate what he could do with it.
Does it not occur to people to just scale back a bit, sell some assets and live less luxuriously?
Yeah, probably, but beyond him not being able to do a load of stuff, I have little idea what his mental state was when he decided to end it all.
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Post by Admiral Valdemar »

Soon as I heard about this arson attack last week, I knew they'd be putting on corpse handling gloves. The addition of the debt angle to the story only made me think suicide/homicide, rather than simple homicide.
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Post by cosmicalstorm »

When my mother was still a child one of their neighbours killed himself and his wife with a shotgun, but that guy at least had the sensibility to send his daughter down to the store to buy some milk and then lock the door before he went to work.
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Post by Kanastrous »

Zac Naloen wrote:
Its a tragedy, but can someone explain why he didn't just sell his 1.2 million pound house to help pay off his 0.8 million pound debt? He might not owe 100% of the house, but it would help.

His house was legally locked by the people he was indebted to.

Seems completely unfair to me, but it's the reason he couldn't sell.
How is it unfair? If you have gone into debt, why shouldn't your valuable property be attached, to go toward covering your debt?
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Post by Meest »

The article mentions him trying to cheat to get out of his debt, to me that points towards the scheming rich bastard type. Not enough info to see if he could have salvaged anything if didn't try to divert his assets.
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Post by mr friendly guy »

I guess it makes sense that his house couldn't be sold. The same mechanism would also stop him transferring assets to a relative and then declaring himself bankrupt and not having to pay off his creditors. This is especially prudent given the accusations of dodgy business dealings.

I think that may be a reason he burnt the house down. To deny the creditors selling it and getting some of their money back. Or am I being too cynical.
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Post by Kanastrous »

I don't think you're being too cynical.

Well, at least they still get a crack at the value of the land.
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Post by Zac Naloen »

Kanastrous wrote:
Zac Naloen wrote:
Its a tragedy, but can someone explain why he didn't just sell his 1.2 million pound house to help pay off his 0.8 million pound debt? He might not owe 100% of the house, but it would help.

His house was legally locked by the people he was indebted to.

Seems completely unfair to me, but it's the reason he couldn't sell.
How is it unfair? If you have gone into debt, why shouldn't your valuable property be attached, to go toward covering your debt?
Because his house is worth more than his debt, but he isn't able to sell it to pay for the debt...
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Post by Darth Wong »

Zac Naloen wrote:
Kanastrous wrote:How is it unfair? If you have gone into debt, why shouldn't your valuable property be attached, to go toward covering your debt?
Because his house is worth more than his debt, but he isn't able to sell it to pay for the debt...
(sigh) You really don't get it, do you? If he is allowed to sell it, he can just wire the money to Switzerland and then skip town. That's the whole fucking point of creditors laying claim to your property: to keep you from buggering off with the money.
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Post by Zac Naloen »

No I understand that completely.


I said earlier the house is "locked" i.e nothing could be done with it. This is what the newspaper I read that morning stated. I thought that in particular was unfair, the courts legally could sieze the house and take all it's assets to pay off that debt.

So why was he still living in the house?
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Post by Kanastrous »

Because a court doesn't have to turn you out of the house, in order to prevent you from selling or otherwise transferring ownership of it. And the point - usually - is just to prevent you from doing that, not to put you on the street for the sake of putting you on the street.
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Post by Zac Naloen »

Kanastrous wrote:Because a court doesn't have to turn you out of the house, in order to prevent you from selling or otherwise transferring ownership of it. And the point - usually - is just to prevent you from doing that, not to put you on the street for the sake of putting you on the street.
That's not what I said (although legally in this country, they can do that).

Nor would he be turned out onto the street. He'd have to downgrade his lifestyle but there should be sufficient assets let over after paying the debts off to be able to start again.


The way he went about doing this smacks of his own selfishness, he took out every single asset he owns. His house, the contents of the house and his horse and stables.

It's obvious what he's done is out of selfish spite to stop his indebtors from getting anything.

The part where they didn't want him to sell the house and run away isn't the part I see as unfair, nor do I see him as much of a victim in this either.

In a more general sense it just seems that when the bailiffs come knocking (and I've had it happen when I was a student, not for me but for someone else at the property) they will take everything with gay abandon including your house if that's what it takes. The media are pretty useless at getting facts across over here, but that doesn't seem to be whats happened here.
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Post by Big Orange »

Darth Wong wrote:
Big Orange wrote:Sorry, I cannot defend parents killing their own children.
No one is asking you to do so, for fuck's sake. There's a difference between "defending" an action and trying to understand what was wrong with the person who committed it, with some depth greater than "eeeeevil!!!!"
'Defending' is a loaded term, more accurately I cannot really rationalize a parent massacring his own family, especially if the pretext for his explosive rampage, his financial problems, were apparently a self made crisis to begin with.

He was most likely yet another sociopath:
A judge ruled in May that Foster had stripped Ulva of its assets and transferred them to a new company. The judge said Foster was "bereft of the basic instinct of commercial morality" and "couldn't be trusted."
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