Edi wrote:You learn something new every day. Before this election cycle, I was unaware of the racial overtones of the word uppity in American discourse. And now that I have been aware of it for some time, it's just amazing how freely they throw it around.
A lot of it is regional.
While 'uppity' carries racial overtones no matter where or when it's spoken, 'boy' isn't always racial.
But when the speaker of the term 'boy' is only a few years older than the subject, from an ex-Confederate* state, and the subject is a black guy, I will bet cash that it was meant to be racist.
If the Congressman had been 75 and a liberal from Vermont, I wouldn't have automatically have read it as a racist statement.
*Technically speaking, while Kentucky wasn't a Confederate state, it was a close thing and flying the 'Stars and Bars' is popular in Kentucky.
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Wait, wait. So the middle name of a candidate is now a national security issue?
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U.S. Rep. Lynn Westmoreland (R-Ga.), who was born and raised in the South, said Thursday he’s never heard the word “uppity” used in a racially loaded fashion —- and meant nothing more than “elitist” when he applied it to Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama and his wife.
“If anyone read more into it, no undercurrent was intended,” said Brian Robinson, a Westmoreland spokesman.
During a conversation with reporters, the two-term Coweta County congressman was discussing the speech of Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin when he was asked to compare her with Michelle Obama.
“Just from what little I’ve seen of her and Mr. Obama, Sen. Obama, they’re a member of an elitist class [of] individual that thinks that they’re uppity,” Westmoreland said, according to The Hill, a newspaper that covers Capitol Hill.
When asked to clarify, Westmoreland said, “Uppity, yeah.”
The Hill immediately posted the incident online, where it zipped around the Internet, causing Westmoreland’s office phones to ring off the hook.
The incident underlines the cultural minefields that come with a presidential campaign that features the first African-American to win the nomination of a major political party.
Republicans say they’re merely trying to portray Obama as out of touch with working Americans, but some Democrats say the GOP is speaking in cultural code.
For decades in the segregated South, “uppity” was a word applied to African-Americans who tried to rise above servile positions.
A spokeswoman for the Obama campaign in Georgia declined comment. In the article published by The Hill, the national Obama campaign did not note any racial context in the Georgia congressman’s remarks.
Westmoreland, who is contemplating a 2010 run for governor, released the following statement:
“I’ve never heard that term used in a racially derogatory sense. It is important to note that the dictionary definition of ‘uppity’ is ‘affecting an air of inflated self-esteem —- snobbish.’ That’s what we meant by uppity when we used it in the mill village where I grew up.”
Anyone believing this?
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He's full of shit. He's pushing sixty, grew up in the South and never heard that 'uppity' had racial undertones? No one on his staff ever warned him? None of his party members gave him a primer on appropriate lingo?
I'd need an excavator to clean up that much bullshit.
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While 'uppity' carries racial overtones no matter where or when it's spoken,
In America, this is true because of the word that always came after it. In other English speaking countries "uppity" doesn't have any racial overtones.
I grew up on a continent an ocean removed from the USA, I'm not even half as old as this Westmoreland character, and I was aware of the racial undertone of the word 'uppity'. He has to be full of shit -- either that, or he's the king of utterly ignorant jackasses.
SiegeTank wrote:I grew up on a continent an ocean removed from the USA, I'm not even half as old as this Westmoreland character, and I was aware of the racial undertone of the word 'uppity'. He has to be full of shit -- either that, or he's the king of utterly ignorant jackasses.
While I'm not saying that it's remotely probable, it might just be that the language is in such common use where he was from that he never noticed the racial overtones. I remember reading an account from a Southerner who didn't realize until his teens that "damn Yankee" was two words.
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The Spartan wrote:He's full of shit. He's pushing sixty, grew up in the South and never heard that 'uppity' had racial undertones? No one on his staff ever warned him? None of his party members gave him a primer on appropriate lingo?
I'd need an excavator to clean up that much bullshit.
Hilariously, I called almost this exact thing on the last page. The Republitards are getting to be so predictable it's a joke.
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SiegeTank wrote:I grew up on a continent an ocean removed from the USA, I'm not even half as old as this Westmoreland character, and I was aware of the racial undertone of the word 'uppity'. He has to be full of shit -- either that, or he's the king of utterly ignorant jackasses.
While I'm not saying that it's remotely probable, it might just be that the language is in such common use where he was from that he never noticed the racial overtones. I remember reading an account from a Southerner who didn't realize until his teens that "damn Yankee" was two words.
My thinking is, is that it could be possible that someone growing up in the South may not know that "uppity" has racial overtones when used w/ black folk. However, I'd think you would have to live in a pretty isolated community to not know this, and obviously Westmoreland has more exposure than what is to be found in some isolated backwoods community.
Glocksman wrote:While 'uppity' carries racial overtones no matter where or when it's spoken, 'boy' isn't always racial.
But when the speaker of the term 'boy' is only a few years older than the subject, from an ex-Confederate* state, and the subject is a black guy, I will bet cash that it was meant to be racist.
The thing with "boy," what else can it be but used as an attempt to belittle the other guy in a particularly demeaning way? Even if it wasn't being used racially. And I find that very hard to believe.
Glocksman wrote:While 'uppity' carries racial overtones no matter where or when it's spoken, 'boy' isn't always racial.
But when the speaker of the term 'boy' is only a few years older than the subject, from an ex-Confederate* state, and the subject is a black guy, I will bet cash that it was meant to be racist.
The thing with "boy," what else can it be but used as an attempt to belittle the other guy in a particularly demeaning way? Even if it wasn't being used racially. And I find that very hard to believe.
He knew damn well what he was saying.
Oh, yeah he absolutely did.
My point with 'boy' is that whether or not it's racial depends upon the context.
If 92 year old Roberta McCain said 'John's such a good boy', it's not racist.
If Roberta McCain said 'That boy Barack shouldn't win', it could be racist but the huge age disparity makes it uncertain.
If Sarah Palin said 'we're going to beat that boy Obama', it's absolutely racist.
"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."- General Sir Charles Napier
Edi wrote:You learn something new every day. Before this election cycle, I was unaware of the racial overtones of the word uppity in American discourse. And now that I have been aware of it for some time, it's just amazing how freely they throw it around.
Edi - I am american and I never ever knew that uppity was in any way racially charged until I read this thread - so don't feel bad.
"boy" on the other hand, when used in a certain context may be racially charged, however.
All of that "he's out of touch with real Americans" crap was always blatantly racist to me. It reminds me of the "Australia for Australians" white-supremacist bullshit down under. This is about people for whom "real American" is a code-word for WASP. Every single time you hear someone talking about how Obama is not a "real American", you can bet that there's some racism built into that, either consciously or subconsciously. So much of the campaign against him is built on the "he's not one of us" routine.
All of it: "boy", "uppity", the madrassa attack, it all comes from the same source.
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"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
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SiegeTank wrote:I grew up on a continent an ocean removed from the USA, I'm not even half as old as this Westmoreland character, and I was aware of the racial undertone of the word 'uppity'. He has to be full of shit -- either that, or he's the king of utterly ignorant jackasses.
While I'm not saying that it's remotely probable, it might just be that the language is in such common use where he was from that he never noticed the racial overtones. I remember reading an account from a Southerner who didn't realize until his teens that "damn Yankee" was two words.
My thinking is, is that it could be possible that someone growing up in the South may not know that "uppity" has racial overtones when used w/ black folk. However, I'd think you would have to live in a pretty isolated community to not know this, and obviously Westmoreland has more exposure than what is to be found in some isolated backwoods community.
Unless he's a fucking mole person, or suffered profound congenital aphasia and couldn't understand spoken language until, oh, nineteen-ninety eight or so, there's no way you grow up in the south and not know what "uppity" means, no matter how far your peckerwood Hooverville was from actual civilization.
Any city gets what it admires, will pay for, and, ultimately, deserves…We want and deserve tin-can architecture in a tinhorn culture. And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed.--Ada Louise Huxtable, "Farewell to Penn Station", New York Times editorial, 30 October 1963 X-Ray Blues
Glocksman wrote:Oh, yeah he absolutely did.
My point with 'boy' is that whether or not it's racial depends upon the context.
If 92 year old Roberta McCain said 'John's such a good boy', it's not racist.
If Roberta McCain said 'That boy Barack shouldn't win', it could be racist but the huge age disparity makes it uncertain.
If Sarah Palin said 'we're going to beat that boy Obama', it's absolutely racist.
Gotcha. And as mentioned in the previous page, what's his name... That Davis clown, he is 49, just a few years older than Obama and obviously a contemporary. He, well, I don't know what his excuse was.
Qwerty 42 wrote:
While I'm not saying that it's remotely probable, it might just be that the language is in such common use where he was from that he never noticed the racial overtones. I remember reading an account from a Southerner who didn't realize until his teens that "damn Yankee" was two words.
My thinking is, is that it could be possible that someone growing up in the South may not know that "uppity" has racial overtones when used w/ black folk. However, I'd think you would have to live in a pretty isolated community to not know this, and obviously Westmoreland has more exposure than what is to be found in some isolated backwoods community.
Unless he's a fucking mole person, or suffered profound congenital aphasia and couldn't understand spoken language until, oh, nineteen-ninety eight or so, there's no way you grow up in the south and not know what "uppity" means, no matter how far your peckerwood Hooverville was from actual civilization.
Um no. It is entirely possible that a person wouldn't. Again, it depends on certain things, but I've even seen people that didn't know to "jew someone down" was racist. There are some people that are either very isolated or absolutely clueless (or a combo of the two). However, again, I doubt Westmoreland is one of them.
apocolypse wrote:
Um no. It is entirely possible that a person wouldn't. Again, it depends on certain things, but I've even seen people that didn't know to "jew someone down" was racist. There are some people that are either very isolated or absolutely clueless (or a combo of the two). However, again, I doubt Westmoreland is one of them.
They might not consciously be aware of the exact racist meaning, but I don't doubt that they realize it's condescending and derogatory. Quite frankly if politicians (ones from the South even!) are using these terms without realizing what it means that's almost worse than using them intentionally. Since it effectively displays how pig ignorant they really are.
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I'm a white man who has never lived in a city or town with a large black population and I know that using the terms "uppity" and "boy" in those connotations is blatantly racist. They fucked up on their dog whistle, but odds are that's not going to hurt them much.
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Imperial Overlord wrote:I'm a white man who has never lived in a city or town with a large black population and I know that using the terms "uppity" and "boy" in those connotations is blatantly racist. They fucked up on their dog whistle, but odds are that's not going to hurt them much.
That's the problem: the Republicans are teflon-coated as long as they align themselves with "heartland America". Nothing will stick to them because they're representing "heartland America". To attack them too strongly is to attack "heartland America", and we can't have that, can we?
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
Darth Wong wrote:
That's the problem: the Republicans are teflon-coated as long as they align themselves with "heartland America". Nothing will stick to them because they're representing "heartland America". To attack them too strongly is to attack "heartland America", and we can't have that, can we?
"Heartland America" can kiss my tiny white ass. it's their goddamn fault that the rest of us had to sit through eight years of king shrubby the lesser. they're a bunch of racist, redneck, trigger-happy hicks, with an average I.Q. lower than a baboon's.
Just for fun, try to imagine the media reaction if someone said that in a speech or an interview.
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Darth Wong wrote:That's the problem: the Republicans are teflon-coated as long as they align themselves with "heartland America". Nothing will stick to them because they're representing "heartland America". To attack them too strongly is to attack "heartland America", and we can't have that, can we?
"Heartland America" can kiss my tiny white ass. it's their goddamn fault that the rest of us had to sit through eight years of king shrubby the lesser. they're a bunch of racist, redneck, trigger-happy hicks, with an average I.Q. lower than a baboon's.
Just for fun, try to imagine the media reaction if someone said that in a speech or an interview.
The sad thing is that it's really no worse than what high-profile people routinely say about liberals, calling them traitors, enemies of America, lovers of terrorists, people with no values or morals, servants of Satan, etc.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
Darth Wong wrote:
The sad thing is that it's really no worse than what high-profile people routinely say about liberals, calling them traitors, enemies of America, lovers of terrorists, people with no values or morals, servants of Satan, etc.
Other than being considerably more based in reality than the outright lies and falsehoods those comments consist of, you mean.
And this is why you don't watch anything produced by Ronald D. Moore after he had his brain surgically removed and replaced with a bag of elephant semen.-Gramzamber, on why Caprica sucks
The problem with these dogwhistles is that Obama can't really call the GOP on them, because his response will get much more media attention than the initial dog whistle and the GOP will spin it to look like he is "over reacting" and pulling out the Race Card as his only defense.
I fucking hate the media.
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apocolypse wrote:Um no. It is entirely possible that a person wouldn't. Again, it depends on certain things, but I've even seen people that didn't know to "jew someone down" was racist. There are some people that are either very isolated or absolutely clueless (or a combo of the two). However, again, I doubt Westmoreland is one of them.
It's entirely possible I could spontaneously teleport to Jupiter at breakfast tomorrow, too. Yeah, there are probably a few dumbfuck crackers who don't know what it means. I'll even go so far as to excuse people below, say, thirty, especially from the urban Sun Belt (which is basically just Michigan with a tan anyway) who may never have heard it as a slur and were never taught what it meant. But over 30? No fucking way. It would be like not knowing what "asshole" means.
Any city gets what it admires, will pay for, and, ultimately, deserves…We want and deserve tin-can architecture in a tinhorn culture. And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed.--Ada Louise Huxtable, "Farewell to Penn Station", New York Times editorial, 30 October 1963 X-Ray Blues
apocolypse wrote:Um no. It is entirely possible that a person wouldn't. Again, it depends on certain things, but I've even seen people that didn't know to "jew someone down" was racist. There are some people that are either very isolated or absolutely clueless (or a combo of the two). However, again, I doubt Westmoreland is one of them.
It's entirely possible I could spontaneously teleport to Jupiter at breakfast tomorrow, too. Yeah, there are probably a few dumbfuck crackers who don't know what it means. I'll even go so far as to excuse people below, say, thirty, especially from the urban Sun Belt (which is basically just Michigan with a tan anyway) who may never have heard it as a slur and were never taught what it meant. But over 30? No fucking way. It would be like not knowing what "asshole" means.
Indeed. Which is why I'm saying that I don't believe it for Westmoreland's case. My point was just that along with Qwerty posted, it is "possible" for someone not to know. But the circumstances would have to be largely unusual. That's all. Age, as you pointed out, was definitely one of the considerations I had in mind as well.
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