Palin's Daughter's Pregnancy [Split and Merge]

[Darth Wong]

Hey asshole, do you know how teen mothers manage to get an education and become responsible adults despite their stupidity and irresponsibility? They get grandma and grandpa to help them raise the baby. That's why, if someone really put her family first, she would have to treat her teenaged daughter's pregnancy as if it was her own.

Is it your contention that Sarah Palin is likely to put her daughter "out in the cold?"

By the standards established here, which are outright sexist, somebody puts their family first by choosing to eschew a challenging profession so that they can be a stay-at-home mother.

You're a lying sack of shit. We were saying that she is a hypocrite because she parrots this "traditional family values" crap that she is not living up to. We weren't saying that we promote it, liar. This is a fine example of you deftly evading a point by simply lying about what the point actually was.

Yes, in a left-wing liberal latte-sipping arugula-eating big-city den of vipers, one might say that the man should do it. But that's not "traditional", is it?

[FSTargetDrone]

Let's not forget that there are eventually going to be 2 new babies in the Palin household. The daughter's yet-to-be-born child and Sarah Palin's own son who also has the issue of being afflicted with Down's Syndrome. Plus the 7 year-old daughter, Piper, who still needs lots of attention from the parents. That is a total of 3 young kids, one of whom, at least, has special needs.

Lots to manage, there.

[FSTargetDrone]

Let's not forget that there are essentially going to be 2 new babies in the Palin household.

[Ender]

Hey dumbshit, you are legally an adult at 18. That is when you stop "paying" for your children's mistakes because that is when they are no longer a child.

Hey, dumbshit, she'll be 18 imminently, having been born in 1990. My point isn't at all damaged by your little play for semantics.

So because she will be an adult in the future, no need to help her now. Man, if only your parents had followed this philosophy with you we would be spared your ignorant ravings.

Bristol Palin is, or will be very shortly, a mature adult in the eyes of the law. For all practical purposes, she is grown up.

And what about Trig?

Whoops, yeah, lets ignore the baby.

[Darth Wong]

Let's not forget that there are eventually going to be 2 new babies in the Palin household. The daughter's yet-to-be-born child and Sarah Palin's own son who also has the issue of being afflicted with Down's Syndrome. Plus the 7 year-old daughter, Piper, who still needs lots of attention from the parents. That is a total of 3 young kids, one of whom, at least, has special needs.

Lots to manage, there.

Let's also not forget that she will have her hands full changing John McCain's diapers too.

[Terralthra]

Funny, I come from this background of traditional family values, where raising your child is your prime duty and is not subordinated to your lust for power. Funny, that.

Since when do "traditional family values" feature placing tremendous personal opportunities on hold in order to succor someone who is legally an adult? I'm not saying I'd be happy if I were Briston Palin, but the standard of parental sacrifice you demand is exceptionally high. This isn't somebody who is need of intensive care. As already mentioned, even if Sarah Palin and her husband decide to become the primary source of sustenance for Bristol and her child, they are more than capable of doing that independent of their professional development.

At what point can parents stop paying for their children's mistakes? At 17? At 18? At 19? Was Cheney wrong to run because he had a gay daughter toward whom John Edwards was inconsiderate in a public debate?

What sorts of jobs are appropriate for a parent? Should Palin resign as governor, right now, in order to shield Bristol from further attention? Can anyone with a child ethically run for public office? Your problem is that you think Bristol Palin is likely to take especially severe criticism. But that's a danger all these people face.

How about her five month-old son with Down's Syndrome? Should she put her professional life on hold for a potentially disabled toddler?

[Patrick Degan]

Let's not forget that there are eventually going to be 2 new babies in the Palin household. The daughter's yet-to-be-born child and Sarah Palin's own son who also has the issue of being afflicted with Down's Syndrome. Plus the 7 year-old daughter, Piper, who still needs lots of attention from the parents. That is a total of 3 young kids, one of whom, at least, has special needs.

Lots to manage, there.

Let's also not forget that she will have her hands full changing John McCain's diapers too.

No, that's what the Secret Service will be doing. In fact, expect their duties to become quite a bit more secret in that event and for their record during a McCain presidency to be placed under security restriction far tighter than the nuclear access codes just to avoid the embarassment.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Since when do "traditional family values" feature placing tremendous personal opportunities on hold in order to succor someone who is legally an adult? I'm not saying I'd be happy if I were Briston Palin, but the standard of parental sacrifice you demand is exceptionally high.

You act like there is a right to pursue personal power that exceeds your ethical obligations to your child. No, there are plenty of careers and situations a parent should decline to involve themselves in until their children are adults. Of course, this ethical issue would be less glaring if I wasn't someone who puffed myself up and pushed my "image" as a supposedly traditional, responsible mother across America for political purposes. When you choose to hoist yourself up by your own petard, you open yourself to increased scrutiny and a higher standard of behavior.

This isn't somebody who is need of intensive care. As already mentioned, even if Sarah Palin and her husband decide to become the primary source of sustenance for Bristol and her child, they are more than capable of doing that independent of their professional development.

And her Down's Syndrome child? Do you have any idea how time consuming the first year of child-rearing is? I have extreme doubts parents can execute the job competently while maintaining a modern presidential campaign tempo without outsourcing their responsibility to ersatz parents in nannies, personal assistants, babysitters, and servants. Which is unbecoming from someone who presents themselves as a paragon of American traditional family life.

At what point can parents stop paying for their children's mistakes? At 17? At 18? At 19? Was Cheney wrong to run because he had a gay daughter toward whom John Edwards was inconsiderate in a public debate?

As if this has anything to do with the Down's Syndrome infant.

What sorts of jobs are appropriate for a parent? Should Palin resign as governor, right now, in order to shield Bristol from further attention? Can anyone with a child ethically run for public office? Your problem is that you think Bristol Palin is likely to take especially severe criticism. But that's a danger all these people face.

Palin can do whatever she wants. But if she wants to go around posing as Super Conservative Soccer Mom, maybe she should show greater concern for an infant child, which will certainly be outsourced and get the short end of the stick while her mother keeps up with a grueling campaign tempo.

[dragon]

GOP, what to do?

<snip>

I don't see how this is going to hurt them. The kind of voters who are offended by this will never vote Democrat anyway, and the right-wing "amen chorus" in the media has already demonstrated that they will overlook anything that their Anointed Party does: lies, corruption, breaches of the constitution, even high treason.

While it might not affect the Repubtards much there are alot of indepents in the states that this will effect.

[Braedley]

Since when do "traditional family values" feature placing tremendous personal opportunities on hold in order to succor someone who is legally an adult?

How about when your entire platform is to do exactly that?

I'm not saying I'd be happy if I were Bristol Palin, but the standard of parental sacrifice you demand is exceptionally high. This isn't somebody who is need of intensive care.

Bristol by herself? Maybe not. Bristol, a 17yo with a baby due in 4 months, who is probably not ready for the demands on her time that a baby needs? No, she's not going to need a lot of help.

As already mentioned, even if Sarah Palin and her husband decide to become the primary source of sustenance for Bristol and her child, they are more than capable of doing that independent of their professional development.

Where I come from, teachers that just gave birth often take a full year of leave. Teachers that are fathers to a newborn can time it right and get the majority of the school year in leave as well. And this is for a perfectly healthy baby too, not one with Down's Syndrome, which takes a significant amount of more time to take care of through the first 5 years, and after that, still more time than a healthy child. Am I suggesting that Palin put her career totally on hold during that time? No, but should she be willing to accept such a huge advancement at a time like this? We're talking about going from the governor of one of the smallest states (for 20 months, none the less) to the VP of the country, with an infant with Down's syndrome, and a daughter who is not ready to take care of her soon to be newborn child. Not only do I think she's not qualified to do the job, but she has parental constraints on top of that.

At what point can parents stop paying for their children's mistakes? At 17? At 18? At 19?

You can't give an answer to that question, primarily because it's such a vague question. My parents are paying (literally) for one of my mistakes right now. That mistake was not searching for a job back in October and November, but instead starting my search in February. If I had started my search back in October, I could be earning $45k/year right now, which is more than enough to live off for a single guy. As for Bristol's mistake? Well technically her parent's stop paying for that when she's no longer a legal dependent of them. Realistically, it's when she can take care of herself and her child without any help from anyone. Which to be brutally honest, I don't think will happen for some time now.

Was Cheney wrong to run because he had a gay daughter toward whom John Edwards was inconsiderate in a public debate?

A lesbian as a daughter, who although controversial is not in need of nearly constant attention or help versus a pregnant daughter and infant son with Down's syndrome, both of whom will need nearly constant attention and/or help.

What sorts of jobs are appropriate for a parent? Should Palin resign as governor, right now, in order to shield Bristol from further attention? Can anyone with a child ethically run for public office?

Q1: Any that they're qualified to perform. Q2: No, not unless Bristol really doesn't want that attention (okay that's probably not the way to word that, because she probably doesn't want the attention), in which case, Bristol would need to make a decision: ask her mother to remove her from the spotlight (by resigning), or remove herself from the spotlight. Q3: What kind of bullshit question is this? Many past presidents had young children when they assumed the Oval Office. Bill Clinton's daughter was 12 when he was elected. JFK had 2 children under 5 when he took office, and a third that died soon after birth.

[Broomstick]

May I point out that the VP of the US in fact has two and only two assigned job duties:

1) Break voting ties in the Senate
2) Become president if the current president either dies or is permanently incapacitated.

That's it - nothing else. Really. Arguably, that is LESS demanding than being governor of any state. So in this particular case onerous job duties aren't really a factor.

Granted, many VP's have taken much more active roles than the above, but that was never required. If a McCain/Palin administration wishes to NOT impose extra duties on the VP she could easily be a showcase for traditional family values while casting an occasional tie-breaking vote.

[Aratech]

May I point out that the VP of the US in fact has two and only two assigned job duties:

1) Break voting ties in the Senate
2) Become president if the current president either dies or is permanently incapacitated.

That's it - nothing else. Really. Arguably, that is LESS demanding than being governor of any state. So in this particular case onerous job duties aren't really a factor.

Granted, many VP's have taken much more active roles than the above, but that was never required. If a McCain/Palin administration wishes to NOT impose extra duties on the VP she could easily be a showcase for traditional family values while casting an occasional tie-breaking vote.

Normally I would agree completely with you. However, in this instance, I think the concern is that we're about to stick (presuming a Republican victory) a 72 year old man with a plethora of past and present health concerns into what is arguably one of the most stressful jobs known to mankind. I do not trust McCain's health to hold up under this sort of situation, which means Madam 'I'm such a right wing Fundie that I'm almost a parody of what Conservatism is' Palin has a much higher than standard chance of being called up to the front.

[Broomstick]

Point taken. However, in that case, the argument should be "may have to assume position of awesome 24/7 responsibility in addition to the awesome 24/7 of parenthood."

[Alyrium Denryle]

Point taken. However, in that case, the argument should be "may have to assume position of awesome 24/7 responsibility in addition to the awesome 24/7 of parenthood."

You also have to remember that if a republican wins, there will be no step-down of vice presidential power. He will be a female, dominionist Dick Cheney, complete with being head of the new Execuslative branch of government.