Palin Discussion [split]

[Tribun]

Saw that the latest opinion poll had Mc/Pal in the lead.
Big comeback from the poor position earlier.

"Don't trust any poll you haven't manipulated yourself."

[Tribun]

I've to add that is is concerning to see how readily the media in my country is jumping on the train of "McCain's wonder-weapon Palin". As if now everyone suddenly finds their big love to McCain and he will win in a landslide victory.

Is this only the effect of something new that will lose is sparkle in the still two months until the election?

[Coyote]

I just skimmed this thread to see if there was a list of books that she tried to ban from the library at Wasilla. I saw no such list, so I wanted to post this here. Supposedly, it is a list of books she wanted the librarian to unass from the library because they were "offensive" in some way.


CAVEAT:

I got this list from an e-mail. It was sent to me through a chain of Democratic Party officials that I have worked with, off and on, and who helped me with my campaign for County Clerk, and when I was a campaign manager for a Democratic State Senator (Idaho actually has a few of 'em!). So while these people are well-connected, and have the ability to find this sort of thing, it is partisan and they will have an axe to grind. I could not, through a cursory search, find any independent verification. The list does seem to fit with the usual lists that Super-Conservitards typically want banned, but if anyone runs across any outside verification that would be reassuring so that I know that my contacts and I are not getting snowed.

Here is the list of books Palin tried to have banned. As many of you will notice it is a hit parade for book burners.

A Clockwork Orange by Anthony Burgess
A Wrinkle in Time by Madeleine L'Engle
Annie on My Mind by Nancy Garden
As I Lay Dying by William Faulkner
Blubber by Judy Blume
Brave New World by Aldous Huxley
Bridge to Terabithia by Katherine Paterson
Canterbury Tales by Chaucer
Carrie by Stephen King
Catch-22 by Joseph Heller
Christine by Stephen King
Confessions by Jean-Jacques Rousseau
Cujo by Stephen King
Curses, Hexes, and Spells by Daniel Cohen
Daddy's Roommate by Michael Willhoite
Day No Pigs Would Die by Robert Peck
Death of a Salesman by Arthur Miller
Decameron by Boccaccio
East of Eden by John Steinbeck
Fallen Angels by Walter Myers
Fanny Hill (Memoirs of a Woman of Pleasure) by John Cleland
Flowers For Algernon by Daniel Keyes
Forever by Judy Blume
Grendel by John Champlin Gardner
Halloween ABC by Eve Merriam
Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone by J.K. Rowling
Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets by J.K. Rowling
Harry Potter and the Prizoner of Azkaban by J.K. Rowling
Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire by J.K. Rowling
Have to Go by Robert Munsch
Heather Has Two Mommies by Leslea Newman
How to Eat Fried Worms by Thomas Rockwell
Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain
I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings by Maya Angelou
Impressions edited by Jack Booth
In the Night Kitchen by Maurice Sendak
It's Okay if You Don't Love Me by Norma Klein
James and the Giant Peach by Roald Dahl
Lady Chatterley's Lover by D.H. Lawrence
Leaves of Grass by Walt Whitman
Little Red Riding Hood by Jacob and Wilhelm Grimm
Lord of the Flies by William Golding
Love is One of the Choices by Norma Klein
Lysistrata by Aristophanes
More Scary Stories in the Dark by Alvin Schwartz
My Brother Sam Is Dead by James Lincoln Collier and Christopher Collier
My House by Nikki Giovanni
My Friend Flicka by Mary O'Hara
Night Chills by Dean Koontz
Of Mice and Men by John Steinbeck
On My Honor by Marion Dane Bauer
One Day in The Life of Ivan Denisovich by Alexander Solzhenitsyn
One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest by Ken Kesey
One Hundred Years of Solitude by Gabriel Garcia Marquez
Ordinary People by Judith Guest
Our Bodies, Ourselves by Boston Women's Health Collective
Prince of Tides by Pat Conroy
Revolting Rhymes by Roald Dahl
Scary Stories 3: More Tales to Chill Your Bones by Alvin Schwartz
Scary Stories in the Dark by Alvin Schwartz
Separate Peace by John Knowles
Silas Marner by George Eliot
Slaughterhouse-Five by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
Tarzan of the Apes by Edgar Rice Burroughs
The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain
The Adventures of Tom Sawyer by Mark Twain
The Bastard by John Jakes
The Catcher in the Rye by J.D. Salinger
The Chocolate War by Robert Cormier
The Color Purple by Alice Walker
The Devil's Alternative by Frederick Forsyth
The Figure in the Shadows by John Bellairs
The Grapes of Wrath by John Steinbeck
The Great Gilly Hopkins by Katherine Paterson
The Handmaid's Tale by Margaret Atwood
The Headless Cupid by Zilpha Snyder
The Learning Tree by Gordon Parks
The Living Bible by William C. Bower
The Merchant of Venice by William Shakespeare
The New Teenage Body Book by Kathy McCoy and Charles Wibbelsman
The Pigman by Paul Zindel
The Seduction of Peter S. by Lawrence Sanders
The Shining by Stephen King
The Witches by Roald Dahl
The Witches of Worm by Zilpha Snyder
Then Again, Maybe I Won't by Judy Blume
To Kill A Mockingbird by Harper Lee
Twelfth Night by William Shakespeare
Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary by the Merriam-Webster Editorial Staff
Witches, Pumpkins, and Grinning Ghosts: The Story of the Halloween Symbols by Edna Barth

[loomer]

...she tried to get fucking Shakespeare banned? A bloody dictionary? How to Eat Fried Worms (I read that book as a kid, no idea what could be offensive)? Jesus christ. If this is true, she's just absurd.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Some of the books on that list were published after she was no longer mayor of Wasilia. I havn't read them, but didn't Harry Potter not start getting printed in the US until 1998 or 1999?

If so, I call bullshit on this list.

[General Zod]

Some of the books on that list were published after she was no longer mayor of Wasilia. I havn't read them, but didn't Harry Potter not start getting printed in the US until 1998 or 1999?

If so, I call bullshit on this list.

The religious right have been hating on Harry Potter books for years. It's hardly inconceivable a fundie in power would want to see them banned.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Some of the books on that list were published after she was no longer mayor of Wasilia. I havn't read them, but didn't Harry Potter not start getting printed in the US until 1998 or 1999?

If so, I call bullshit on this list.

The religious right have been hating on Harry Potter books for years. It's hardly inconceivable a fundie in power would want to see them banned.

Yes, but given that the book banning 'dispute' was in 1996, I'm a bit troubled that she was trying to ban a book that wouldn't be published for four more years.

[General Zod]

Some of the books on that list were published after she was no longer mayor of Wasilia. I havn't read them, but didn't Harry Potter not start getting printed in the US until 1998 or 1999?

If so, I call bullshit on this list.

The religious right have been hating on Harry Potter books for years. It's hardly inconceivable a fundie in power would want to see them banned.

Ghetto edit: Re-read and realized I misread what was wrote. So feel free to ignore that post.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Here's the article from 1996.

By PAUL STUART
Published on Friday, September 5, 2008 5:18 PM AKDT

Editor's note: This story first ran in the Mat-Su Valley Frontiersman Dec. 18, 1996. It has been typeset and posted here to accommodate numerous requests for the story from media worldwide and curious individuals. Please note that not at any time were any books ever banned from the Wasilla city library.

WASILLA -- In the wake of strong reactions from the city's library director to inquiries about censorship, Wasilla Mayor Sarah Palin on Monday was taking pains to explain her questions about censoring library material were “rhetorical.”

Library Director Mary Ellen Emmons last week said Palin broached the subject with her on two occasions in October - once Palin was elected mayor Oct. 1 but before she took office on Oct. 14, and again in more detail on Monday, Oct. 28. Besides heading the Wasilla City Library, Emmons is also president of the Alaska Library Association.

The issue became public last Wednesday, when Palin brought it up during an interview about the now-defunct Liquor task Force. Palin used the library topic as an example of discussions with her department heads about understanding and following administration agendas. Palin said she asked Emmons how she would respond to censorship.

Emmons drew a clear distinction Saturday between the nature of Palin's inquiries and an established book-challenge policy in place in Wasilla, and in most public libraries.

“I'm not trying to suppress anyone's views,” Emmons said. “But I told her (Palin) clearly, I will fight anyone who tries to dictate what books can go on the library shelves.”

Palin said Monday she had no particular books or other material in mind when she posed the questions to Emmons.

Emmons said in the first conversation, before being sworn in as mayor, Palin briefly touched on the subject of censorship.

But on Monday, Oct. 28, Emmons said Palin asked her outright if she could live with censorship of library books. This was during a weak when Palin was requesting resignations from all the city's department heads as a way of expressing loyalty.

“This is different than a normal book-selection procedure or a book-challenge policy,” Emmons stressed Saturday. “She was asking me how I would deal with her saying a book can't be in the library.”

Monday Palin said in a written statement she was only trying to get aquatinted with her staff at the time. “Many issues were discussed, both rhetorical and realistic in nature,” Palin added.

Emmons recalled that the Oct. 28 conversation she pulled no punches with her response to the mayor.

“She asked me if I would object to censorship, and I replied 'Yup',” Emmons recounted Saturday. “And I told her it would not be just me. This was a constitutional question, and the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) would get involved, too.”

Emmons said Palin asked her on Oct. 28 if she would object to censorship, even if people were circling the library in protest about a book. “I told her it would definitely be a problem the ACLU would take on then,” Emmons said

Asked who she thought might picket the library, Palin said Monday, “Had no one in mind ... again, the issue was discussed in the context of a professional question being asked in regards to library policy.

“All questions posed to Wasilla's library director were asked in the context of professionalism regarding the library policy that is in place in our city. Obviously the issue of censorship is a library question... you ask a library director that type of question,” Palin said

“Palin also said Monday censorship issues would not involve any departments other than the library.

Emmons said she has been offered help if it is ever needed on censorship issues from the state library association's Intellectual Freedom Committee and the National Freedom to Read Foundation.

Palin called Emmons into her office Monday to discuss the censorship questions again.

Palin also attended Friday's staff meeting at the library, but without mentioning censorship , Emmons said.

“I'm hoping it was just a trial balloon,” Emmons said, “because the free exchange of information is my main job, and I'll fight anyone who tries to interfere with that.”

The timing of the issue comes at a time when Emmons is trying to get the book-challenge policies of the Wasilla Library and of the Palmer City Library in line with the Mat-Su Borough policy, revised in December of last year.

Emmons described the new borough policy as “a very good one.”

It is a step-by-step blueprint of procedures for anyone wanting to challenge the selection and availability of library material, Emmons explained. “it is a good process, and almost all public libraries have one.”

The borough's policy was revised mainly to replace the borough manager as the final decision maker with a formal Reconsideration Committee Mat-Su Borough Manager Don Moore said Saturday that changes were made, with the blessings, after a dispute that was resolved about two years ago involving a challenged book at the Big Lake Library.

Emmons said the current Wasilla policy, which she described as written in more general terms than the borough's, also worked procedurally in a book-challenge case last year. Emmons said then-council-woman Palin was distressed about the issue when it came up, indicating she was aware of the city's book-challenge policy.

Emmons said in the conversations with now-Mayor Palin in October, she reminded her again that the city has a policy in place. “But it seamed clear to me that wasn't really what she was talking about anyhow,” Emmons added. “I just hope it doesn't come up again.”

Meanwhile, Emmons said she is working with borough libraries boss Bruce Urban and Palmer Library Director Janice Sanford, in the hope of getting the cities to adopt a book-challenge policy identical to the borough's.

So... she asked how the librarian would react to censorship demands outside of normal channels. She didn't have a list of books, and didn't actually ban any books or try to ban them.

[CJvR]

I've to add that is is concerning to see how readily the media in my country is jumping on the train of "McCain's wonder-weapon Palin".

Well IIRC back here in Sweden there was a surprising number who voted the gender rather than the issues a couple of elections ago.

[General Zod]

So... she asked how the librarian would react to censorship demands outside of normal channels. She didn't have a list of books, and didn't actually ban any books or try to ban them.

Perhaps it's just me, but I can't help but figure that kind of request as dubious at best, even if it were rhetorical. Considering Republitard attempts at causing a stir over books that don't agree with their viewpoints, I wouldn't be at all surprised if it turned out Palin was simply fishing to see how much support she'd have if she did try and ban something.

[CaptainChewbacca]

So... she asked how the librarian would react to censorship demands outside of normal channels. She didn't have a list of books, and didn't actually ban any books or try to ban them.

Perhaps it's just me, but I can't help but figure that kind of request as dubious at best, even if it were rhetorical. Considering Republitard attempts at causing a stir over books that don't agree with their viewpoints, I wouldn't be at all surprised if it turned out Palin was simply fishing to see how much support she'd have if she did try and ban something.

Keep in mind, she hadn't ever run a city before. If it was right at the start of her job, and she's fresh from the PTA where people rant about banning books, she may just have wanted to know what COULD go wrong if things hit the fan. I'd say even money it was either that or a fishing expedition for bannitude.

[Braedley]

Why are Brave New World and Lord of the Flies on there? I had to read Brave New World, and chose Lord of the Flies for own selection in high school. Both provide for social commentary, which makes me wonder why some Orwell stories aren't there (we had to read Animal Farm as well, but I'm not saying that should be one of them).

[CaptainChewbacca]

Why are Brave New World and Lord of the Flies on there? I had to read Brave New World, and chose Lord of the Flies for own selection in high school. Both provide for social commentary, which makes me wonder why some Orwell stories aren't there (we had to read Animal Farm as well, but I'm not saying that should be one of them).

Lord of the Flies has some pretty graphic violence and a LOT of weird homoeroticism. If you were one of those people who watches movies to count how many times they say 'damn' or hold hands too long, you might object to it.

[General Zod]

And Palin makes her first potentially big gaffe.

Gov. Sarah Palin made her first potentially major gaffe during her time on the national scene while discussing the developments of the perilous housing market this past weekend.

Speaking before voters in Colorado Springs, the Republican vice presidential nominee claimed that lending giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac had "gotten too big and too expensive to the taxpayers." The companies, as McClatchy reported, "aren't taxpayer funded but operate as private companies. The takeover may result in a taxpayer bailout during reorganization."

So not only do we have a Presidential candidate who has a poor grasp of economics, we have a Veep candidate who doesn't realize that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are private companies. I can't wait to see how the Republitards are going to try and spin this.

[Terralthra]

And Palin makes her first potentially big gaffe.

Gov. Sarah Palin made her first potentially major gaffe during her time on the national scene while discussing the developments of the perilous housing market this past weekend.

Speaking before voters in Colorado Springs, the Republican vice presidential nominee claimed that lending giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac had "gotten too big and too expensive to the taxpayers." The companies, as McClatchy reported, "aren't taxpayer funded but operate as private companies. The takeover may result in a taxpayer bailout during reorganization."

So not only do we have a Presidential candidate who has a poor grasp of economics, we have a Veep candidate who doesn't realize that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are private companies. I can't wait to see how the Republitards are going to try and spin this.

You could simply say that she's 40 years out of date. They were only privatized in 1968....

[Block]

So... she asked how the librarian would react to censorship demands outside of normal channels. She didn't have a list of books, and didn't actually ban any books or try to ban them.

Perhaps it's just me, but I can't help but figure that kind of request as dubious at best, even if it were rhetorical. Considering Republitard attempts at causing a stir over books that don't agree with their viewpoints, I wouldn't be at all surprised if it turned out Palin was simply fishing to see how much support she'd have if she did try and ban something.

Keep in mind, she hadn't ever run a city before. If it was right at the start of her job, and she's fresh from the PTA where people rant about banning books, she may just have wanted to know what COULD go wrong if things hit the fan. I'd say even money it was either that or a fishing expedition for bannitude.

Oh please. Anyone who has any brains in their heads knows that it's been brought up before on a national level, and it's been shot down, very harshly. I'm not sure what you're trying to say with what could go wrong if things hit the fan, but if you mean if the PTA tried to ban books, then she phrased her question in an monumentally stupid manner. There really was no point in her asking these questions to begin with, but it's not as bad as if she'd actually tried to go through with banning books like I've seen claimed.

[Block]

And that list of books she tried to ban comes from here so I really doubt it's true.

[SirNitram]

Link

Pentecostalism is one of the fastest growing branches of Christianity in the world, and the Assemblies of God is one of the largest Pentecostal denominations in the country, claiming 1.6 million members. Pentecostals are generally characterized by a strict adherence to moral codes--no tobacco, no alcohol, no social dancing, no sex outside of marriage--and by their belief that the Holy Spirit bestows upon some the gift of "speaking in tongues," a reference to Acts 2: "And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost and began to speak with other tongues." A spokeswoman for the McCain-Palin campaign has said that Palin attends many churches and does not consider herself to be Pentecostal.

This past Sunday, worship at the Assembly of God fellowship in Wasilla was as euphoric as the Bible Church was staid. The congregation of about 100 was on its feet, shouting and clapping. Some members on another Sunday might murmur and keen in low voices, the sound of speaking in tongues. But the purpose of the sermon this Sunday was to prepare the church for the media onslaught that was sure to follow. "Because Jesus Christ died on the cross," the senior pastor, Ed Kalnins, told the crowd, "we can worship in public. How many people are thanking God for what's happening to Governor Sarah?"

Kalnins guessed that about half of the people in his church have the gift of tongues. He has it himself, he says, though he rarely demonstrates it. "It's not meant to be shown off," he said. "It's not like flexing muscles. I received the gift in college, and it transformed my life." It's not something like from the "remote parts of the jungle," he adds: It's a decision.

And if the staff of Wasilla Bible Church shies from taking political stands, Kalnins does not. Homosexuality, he says, is a choice. He would not vote for a pro-choice candidate. When asked about the evolution-creationism debate, Kalnins is clear: "You present the facts of creation versus evolution and the truth will come out," he says. What does Palin think? "This is something inside every human heart of a believer," he answers. When Palin worships in Juneau, she attends an Assembly of God church there. Sarah Palin may not call herself a Pentecostal, but she has deep and long experience in Pentecostal churches. And as the race wears on, this biographical fact will likely become another religious Rorschach test--pleasing to some, discomfiting to others.

Speaking in tongues. Pray The Gay Away. Creationism. And the only group so extreme as to be declared Heretics by the Assemblies of God in 1949: The Third Wave. Declarations that Jews deserve terrorist attacks. Iraq is God's Plan. On and on role the allegations, none truly denied, and we are forced to one point:

Who the FUCK cares if Obama heard an angry Black preacher?

[Block]

Who the FUCK cares if Obama heard an angry Black preacher?

Ok then who the fuck cares if she hears this preacher? I don't like her, or support her, but if you're going to apply the standard to one, you have to apply it to both, and Wrights statements have been rather nasty as well.

[Erik von Nein]

Ok then who the fuck cares if she hears this preacher? I don't like her, or support her, but if you're going to apply the standard to one, you have to apply it to both, and Wrights statements have been rather nasty as well.

Wright's statements were more about how he was angry with how the country's been, right or wrong, regardless of his beliefs. Also, immediately after he had his meltdown Obama said (in public and, I assume, in private) that he was out of line. Wright's comments don't reflect Obama's stated goals for his presidency, as well.

On the other hand not only does Palin apparently continue going to this church her views (what plans has she put out, anyway?) very much closely reflect the views of this pastor, making it likely that the more out-there stuff is something she'll try to put into law.

That's the difference. Does it really matter? No, because Palin would still be a reprehensible person regardless of what church she attended.

[Block]

While what you say is true, remember, the only reason Obama publicly said a word about Wright's comments is because it became an enormous firestorm. If Palin's affiliations are put under such scrutiny, she may end up doing the same thing. I doubt it, but you never know.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Woah, I attended an Assemblies of God church for 6 years, and things never got that bad. There was quiet speaking in tongues, and occasionally someone would speak out and proclaim God's glory or whatnot, but they'd do it in english.

As far as tobacco/alcohol/dancing, I don't know of any prohibition in my church. They actually hosted dance fundraisers in the church sanctuary on a few separate occasions, and I even had beers with one of my preachers (the church had 3). 'Pentacostal' doesn't mean crazed zealot, nor does it have strict guidelines that must be followed.

[SirNitram]

Who the FUCK cares if Obama heard an angry Black preacher?

Ok then who the fuck cares if she hears this preacher? I don't like her, or support her, but if you're going to apply the standard to one, you have to apply it to both, and Wrights statements have been rather nasty as well.

I don't apply the standard. Conservatives do, and this is an open decrying of it.

Now, little one, you will demonstrate to me how Wright says anything close to this. Angry about racial inequality vs. 'Jews should die to Palestianian bombers'. Now.

[SirNitram]

Woah, I attended an Assemblies of God church for 6 years, and things never got that bad. There was quiet speaking in tongues, and occasionally someone would speak out and proclaim God's glory or whatnot, but they'd do it in english.

As far as tobacco/alcohol/dancing, I don't know of any prohibition in my church. They actually hosted dance fundraisers in the church sanctuary on a few separate occasions, and I even had beers with one of my preachers (the church had 3). 'Pentacostal' doesn't mean crazed zealot, nor does it have strict guidelines that must be followed.

Like I said, these guys got booted out of the AoG. I understand getting the AoG General Council to agree on anything, let alone kicking people out and then again condemning them, is rather like herding cats. Cats that are high off catnip and sugar.