Pastor to endorse from Pulpit as challenge to IRS.

[General Zod]

This difference here, which I alluded to in my last post, is that this is a church. So as soon as they start getting IRS attention for this, they'll start screaming bloody murder to their representatives in both the government and the media and there will be an enormous public pressure to get the IRS to back off. Which is exactly what this church wants to happy, because it will set a bullshit precedent. The IRS enforcement division is going to be stuck in a bad spot -- go after these guys and you have the problem I just described, don't go after these guys and you'll have every church in the country doing it.

Since when has the IRS ever cared about public opinion?

Ghetto edit: Fucking typos.

[Molyneux]

I'm pleasantly surprised that, at least, there's an organized group attempting to directly counter the ADF in this.

[Superman]

This difference here, which I alluded to in my last post, is that this is a church. So as soon as they start getting IRS attention for this, they'll start screaming bloody murder to their representatives in both the government and the media and there will be an enormous public pressure to get the IRS to back off. Which is exactly what this church wants to happy, because it will set a bullshit precedent. The IRS enforcement division is going to be stuck in a bad spot -- go after these guys and you have the problem I just described, don't go after these guys and you'll have every church in the country doing it.

Like Zod said, they're not going to give a shit about public opinion. The IRS is a fully independent law enforcement agency, and unless those preachers can somehow get Congress to tell them to back off, my money is on them going to get charged. I'm sure it will ultimately be settled in court.

[Turin]

Like Zod said, they're not going to give a shit about public opinion. The IRS is a fully independent law enforcement agency, and unless those preachers can somehow get Congress to tell them to back off, my money is on them going to get charged. I'm sure it will ultimately be settled in court.

(bolding mine) That's exactly what I'm worried about, actually -- inventing a new "culture war" issue, and during an election cycle at that. Even the Democrats fold like wet newspaper over religious pressure. Just look at all the retarded "think of the children!" nonsense we had to put up with surrounding videogames, with Sens. Clinton and Liberman leading the charge.

We do have every church in the country doing it. They're all telling their congregations how to vote already. Might as well at least try to do something about it.

Maybe you're right, but it's the sort of thing that I'd like to see done on "our" terms, rather than having the other side push the issue and take the initiative in defining the terms of the debate. This church, having instigated the whole thing, will frame it as a free speech issue in the media and their story will be the one that the public bites on because it's the Big Bad Government coming to "get them". It's about controlling the public perception of the thing that I'm concerned with.

[Darth Wong]

We do have every church in the country doing it. They're all telling their congregations how to vote already. Might as well at least try to do something about it.

Maybe you're right, but it's the sort of thing that I'd like to see done on "our" terms, rather than having the other side push the issue and take the initiative in defining the terms of the debate. This church, having instigated the whole thing, will frame it as a free speech issue in the media and their story will be the one that the public bites on because it's the Big Bad Government coming to "get them". It's about controlling the public perception of the thing that I'm concerned with.

In other words, lie there and let them walk all over you until the time is right to strike back. And when exactly will that be?

Your idea seems to be "If someone is beating you up, don't fight back! You might lose!"

[Turin]

Your idea seems to be "If someone is beating you up, don't fight back! You might lose!"

Let me clarify then. In general, I'd rather not have to push the issue. American society has a long way to go before the general public is going to accept taxing the churches. What's the rate of belief in Creationism here again? 40% or so? Sad to say, but this isn't the issue where I'd want to push hard on secularism yet... there's too much work to be done elsewhere.

That being said, given that these assholes have decided to make a federal case about it... then yes, in this case I'll concede it looks like you have to go for enforcement, because they've made a public show of it. I'm just saying what my expectations of that will be -- an ugly public stink. That's a bad outcome, but the other potential outcome is worse, so that's what we're stuck with.

[aerius]

The IRS just needs to get some half-decent PR hacks. Run some ads along the lines of "Tired of paying high taxes? Well, you can blame that on the church cause they're making BILLIONS every year without paying a single cent in taxes. Is this fair? No. It's time we did something about it".

Drill it into their heads that their precious tax dollars are getting robbed by the churches and they'll be willing to do something about it.

[Uraniun235]

The IRS just needs to get some half-decent PR hacks. Run some ads along the lines of "Tired of paying high taxes? Well, you can blame that on the church cause they're making BILLIONS every year without paying a single cent in taxes. Is this fair? No. It's time we did something about it".

Drill it into their heads that their precious tax dollars are getting robbed by the churches and they'll be willing to do something about it.

Sorry, I really can't abide by this when former IRS administrators have argued that a budget increase of a few hundred million dollars would see a return of over ten billion dollars. The first and foremost priority should be "Hey, if you pay us enough, we'll stick it to those greedy fatcat rich fuckers who are dodging their taxes and leaving your children with more national debt."

[Covenant]

Those two groups overlap quite a bit. While it's true, as was stated earlier, that the Catholic Church was a huge money-sucking machine, it really never allowed an individual preacher to amass such personal wealth outside of the Papal State the way the evangelicals do now. Religion has turned into a convenient place to launder money.