Does McCain already have the Election won?

Invictus ChiKen · Post by **Invictus ChiKen** » 2008-09-10 07:45pm

Terralthra wrote:Source.

Here are some books.

Link

Link

Link

Link

And there are some weblinks view google but they all lead to some funky shit. Then again Hitler believed in some funky shit.

Link

Link

Link

Link

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2008-09-10 07:46pm

Invictus ChiKen wrote:Source.

What is this supposed to prove again?

Singular Intellect · Post by **Singular Intellect** » 2008-09-10 07:48pm

"I don't believe in Santa Clause! This is why I attacked, raped and pillaged this village!" -[insert dictator here]

I think that about sums up the fucking idiotic 'evil atheism' arguement nicely.

I'm relatively sure Stalin didn't believe in the Flying Spaghettie Monster either; therefore using fundie logic the conclusion is he commited said atrocities because of this lack of belief, right?

Invictus ChiKen · Post by **Invictus ChiKen** » 2008-09-10 07:49pm

Superman wrote:What moral code???!!! Why do you don't need to believe in an invisible man in the sky to be a good person???

Never said it did. I mean has not Richard Dawkins himself declared Atheism to be morally superior. To be morally superior you need morals correct?

An morality:

descriptively to refer to a code of conduct put forward by a society or,
some other group, such as a religion, or
accepted by an individual for her own behavior or
normatively to refer to a code of conduct that, given specified conditions, would be put forward by all rational persons.

At any rate I am willing to concede the debate because my point originally was no more than you have nut cases on both sides and it is wrong to judge a group by it's nut cases.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2008-09-10 07:50pm

Ah, but he didn't REJECT the Pink Unicorn. By TURNING FROM JESUS he was obviously motivated to do all these terrible things - things the largely Catholic Nationalists did in Spain anyway - and not motivated by paranoia AT ALL.

Invictus ChiKen · Post by **Invictus ChiKen** » 2008-09-10 07:50pm

Superman wrote:
Invictus ChiKen wrote: What is this supposed to prove again?

???

Someone asked for my source on Hitler blending in Occult shit into his murderous philosophy. I gave the sources I read this at. There was also some History and Discovery Channel specials on this.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2008-09-10 07:51pm

Invictus ChiKen wrote:Never said it did. I mean has not Richard Dawkins himself declared Atheism to be morally superior.

Please show this quote to me, because something seems to be either misunderstood or taken out of context.

Invictus ChiKen · Post by **Invictus ChiKen** » 2008-09-10 07:51pm

Stark wrote:Ah, but he didn't REJECT the Pink Unicorn. By TURNING FROM JESUS he was obviously motivated to do all these terrible things - things the largely Catholic Nationalists did in Spain anyway - and not motivated by paranoia AT ALL.

I agree the Catholic Church has done horrible things in the past and continues to do them now and covers them up.

Terralthra · Post by **Terralthra** » 2008-09-10 07:53pm

Invictus ChiKen wrote:
Terralthra wrote:Source.
Here are some books.

Link

Levenda rightly contends that Hitler himself was not overly influenced by occult ideas (contrary to the thesis put forth in _The Spear of Destiny_) despite his youthful readings of von Liebenfel's notorious magazine, "Ostara".

Link

Although Hitler did not have much of an interest in actual occult practices, his chief of the SS, Heinrich Himmler, did.

Link

Goodrick-Clarke (Hitler's Priestess; The Occult Roots of Nazism) begins with a consideration of the origins of American neo-Nazism and ends with a thorough discussion of well-known, current far-right groups: the European skinheads, the Aryan Nations and the World Church of the Creator movement, which inspired the 1999 shooting spree in the Midwest.

Link

This is an expanded and updated version of the earlier edition of this work. A major change is the addition of an essay called "Myth of Nazi Occultism". This makes up the first part of the book. This is well worth reading and a healthy correction to some of the more ridiculous fantasies about Hitler and the occult.

Of those four links, one doesn't even talk about Hitler, and the remaining three make it explicit that Hitler was not an occultist. Were you hoping I wouldn't actually read your links, you dishonest fuckwit?

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2008-09-10 07:53pm

Invictus ChiKen wrote: ???

Someone asked for my source on Hitler blending in Occult shit into his murderous philosophy. I gave the sources I read this at. There was also some History and Discover Channel specials on this.

The best part is where these sources nowhere ascribe his 'murderous philosophy' to these sources, since it all came from the Bible. I hear Odin hates Jews? OH WAIT!

Red herring out the ass here. This logic is hilariuos - some part of some Nazi's philosophy was motivated by non-christian ideas, thus NOTHING THE NAZIS EVER DID WAS DUE TO CHRISTIANITY, not even those bits expressly motivated by it. Talk about clutching at fucking straws.

Invictus ChiKen · Post by **Invictus ChiKen** » 2008-09-10 07:54pm

Superman wrote:
Invictus ChiKen wrote:Never said it did. I mean has not Richard Dawkins himself declared Atheism to be morally superior.
Please show this quote to me, because something seems to be either misunderstood or taken out of context.

I do agree this could be a misunderstand on my part and I offer the board my apologies I'll hunt for the quote now.

I could also be getting my wires crossed and be mixing up my Atheists.

Singular Intellect · Post by **Singular Intellect** » 2008-09-10 07:54pm

Invictus ChiKen wrote:At any rate I am willing to concede the debate because my point originally was no more than you have nut cases on both sides and it is wrong to judge a group by it's nut cases.

Except we aren't judging any particular religious group by it's individual 'nut cases'; we judge it by it's teachings. You know, 'kill those who are non believers', 'gays are to be stoned to death', 'slavery is cool', 'women are inferior'...that kind of shit.

Superman wrote:
Invictus ChiKen wrote:Never said it did. I mean has not Richard Dawkins himself declared Atheism to be morally superior.
Please show this quote to me, because something seems to be either misunderstood or taken out of context.

It is slightly out of context. Dawkins has pointed out that it's morally superior to save someone's life because you empathize with that person and understand their plight, as opposed to saving someone's life because you think you'll be whipped for eternity later if you don't (or rewarded eternally if you do).

Invictus ChiKen · Post by **Invictus ChiKen** » 2008-09-10 07:58pm

Stark wrote:Red herring out the ass here. This logic is hilariuos - some part of some Nazi's philosophy was motivated by non-christian ideas, thus NOTHING THE NAZIS EVER DID WAS DUE TO CHRISTIANITY, not even those bits expressly motivated by it. Talk about clutching at fucking straws.

Wait a second Stark. I thought this was about nut cases being on both extrames.

I am man enough to admit I'm very confused right now how did we get here?

Invictus ChiKen · Post by **Invictus ChiKen** » 2008-09-10 07:59pm

Bubble Boy wrote:It is slightly out of context. Dawkins has pointed out that it's morally superior to save someone's life because you empathize with that person and understand their plight, as opposed to saving someone's life because you think you'll be whipped for eternity later if you don't (or rewarded eternally if you do).

Thanks BB. I must have gotten it mixed up somewhere down the line.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2008-09-10 08:04pm

Invictus ChiKen wrote: Wait a second Stark. I thought this was about nut cases being on both extrames.

I am man enough to admit I'm very confused right now how did we get here?

Oh sorry, I thought you were honestly trying to excuse Nazi atrocities and their christian motivation by suggesting that Hitler used 'other sources' and thus it's not christianity's fault.

I see now you're just an idiot. Given that you seem woefully uninformed about pretty much everything you're talking about in this thread, I can understand why you're confused. Clearly communism is atheistic due to 'frustration' and not as a basic tenet of the social philosophy behind it!

This means it's all atheisms fault, just like with Hitler!

Invictus ChiKen · Post by **Invictus ChiKen** » 2008-09-10 08:09pm

Stark wrote:I see now you're just an idiot. Given that you seem woefully uninformed about pretty much everything you're talking about in this thread, I can understand why you're confused. Clearly communism is atheistic due to 'frustration' and not as a basic tenet of the social philosophy behind it! This means it's all atheisms fault, just like with Hitler!

Just going by what I studied in History in School mate and the stuff I read on my own time in the Library...

But I'd never excuse excuse Nazi atrocities for what they did. Or the RCC for the whole child abuse thing...

Infact I've recently been hit with the excommunication hammer due to Hersey and Apostasy.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2008-09-10 08:12pm

Dude, I don't give a shit about your personal life. If you're going to say shit that is totally wrong - especially if it's part of christian apologism or trying to equate atheism with christianity - you're going to get ruled. Read a fucking book for fucks sake - even the goddamn links you posted yourself would teach you something.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2008-09-10 08:14pm

Stark wrote:Dude, I don't give a shit about your personal life. If you're going to say shit that is totally wrong - especially if it's part of christian apologism or trying to equate atheism with christianity - you're going to get ruled. Read a fucking book for fucks sake - even the goddamn links you posted yourself would teach you something.

He has read books, apparently. The problem is he lacks the critical thinking skills to actually figure out which ones are true.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2008-09-10 09:47pm

He also lacks the critical thinking skills to understand that "Hitler believed in some pagan beliefs" does not mean "Hitler did not believe in the Christian god". There are huge numbers of Americans who believe in God but who also believe in all kinds of other things, like karma or superstitions or horoscopes.

Moreover, he lacked the critical thinking skills to ask himself about the previous thousand years of Christian anti-semitism, after he falsely believed he had slain the dragon of Hitler's personal Christian faith as expressed in Mein Kampf.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2008-09-10 10:09pm

Wow, this took off. Conceede on the issue being discussed back on page 3 BTW, I should make sureI comprehend something before posting rather then shooting off a reply real quick before I dart out the door.

Back to the current topic...

Invictus ChiKen wrote:
Superman wrote: That's not really true. Atheism has no creeds, dogmas, etc., which tell its members to do what those dictators did. You think their lack of belief was responsible for the atrocities they committed?
No more than Christian creeds had an influence on Hitler getting in. I'm just saying Stalin and Lenin seemed to have a massive support base in the left. My point being there are murderous radicals on all sides.

Have you read Mein Kampf? How about Luter's later texts? Calvin's ideas? Christianity was the predominant influence on Hitler's works, the primary justification for it, and was openly supportive of it. Quit kidding yourself.

Anguirus · Post by **Anguirus** » 2008-09-10 10:20pm

I've noticed that violating "Godwin's Law" on this board quickly leads to the Nazi religion argument, and it goes the same way every time. We should just make a sticky.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2008-09-10 10:22pm

Anguirus wrote:I've noticed that violating "Godwin's Law" on this board quickly leads to the Nazi religion argument, and it goes the same way every time. We should just make a sticky.

Godwin's Law is commonly misstated. A lot of people think it says "The minute someone mentions Hitler, he is automatically wrong". IIRC, it was something more along the lines of "any online argument will eventually lead to someone being tied to Hitler".

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2008-09-10 10:25pm

Yeah, the way it's commonly used (ie, 'you said Hitler so you lose' or 'any thought involving Hitler is wrong due to popularity') is pretty retarded. I agree to a split on this stuff, but we can't really have a sticky for all the shit christians constantly deny/are ignorant of/misrepresent.

Actually, maybe we could. A christian apologism primer sticky, maybe?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2008-09-10 10:26pm

Stark wrote:Yeah, the way it's commonly used (ie, 'you said Hitler so you lose' or 'any thought involving Hitler is wrong due to popularity') is pretty retarded. I agree to a split on this stuff, but we can't really have a sticky for all the shit christians constantly deny/are ignorant of/misrepresent.

Actually, maybe we could. A christian apologism primer sticky, maybe?

A Library thread would be a better idea.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2008-09-10 10:27pm

Stark wrote:Yeah, the way it's commonly used (ie, 'you said Hitler so you lose' or 'any thought involving Hitler is wrong due to popularity') is pretty retarded. I agree to a split on this stuff, but we can't really have a sticky for all the shit christians constantly deny/are ignorant of/misrepresent.

Actually, maybe we could. A christian apologism primer sticky, maybe?

It's not like the Christians would read it anyway. I mean, they ignore a good chunk of the Bible as it is.