SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread II

[DarthShady]

Curse you and your format-breaking image, Shady! *shakes fist*

We don't all over super-duper widescreen HD monitors you know.

Sorry. I'll resize it.

*tries to remember if there was anything else important he wanted to say, gets nothing* Well it'll no doubt come to me five minutes after I've logged off and shut my computer down.

EDIT: Oh yeah, me and Coyote are at the SNC conference as well, in case anyone forgot. We would have showed up with PeZook.

It happens to all of us.

You guys are welcome to participate, as soon as we get the SNC only stuff done.

*Cough* Lazy SNC dudes *cough*

[RogueIce]

If Baerne and Karmic Knight each get three OHPs, that means that I'll only get eight at most. I can still make use of those eight nonetheless.

If it makes you happier, I'm going to be replacing my current OHPs with new frigates. I've got 11.

We need to determine pricing first; I'd like to see if you can meet or beat whatever deal RogueIce is going to offer me.

There's also the matter of how quickly you'd want them, of course. Given that I've got some three nations looking to buy, I can't really sell everything everyone wants, not all at once.

Of course if you're willing to wait I'll be selling off more frigates as time goes on.

On a similar note I am building the F100 and Halifax type of frigates for my own navy. I'm pretty sure I'd have the shipyard capacity to build more than just at my current rate. They'd be more expensive though, obviously. And it'll be longer to get them than just taking some old ships off my hands.

[Sea Skimmer]

A Perry cost about 200 million bucks back in the 1970s when work started, they’d be worth less then that today despite inflation because without upgrades they aren’t worth that much except as helo platforms in a high intensity battle. The US offered the much more capable but still outdated Kidd class to Australia for only 30 million apiece in the 1990s for example, while most Perry transfers amounted to gifts. New frigates are running upwards of 500 million dollars, even for low capability ships, in real life at this point.

Given general trends of pricing in the game though, that estimate can be lowball, and people also don’t have to deal with the huge taxes normally applied to weapons exports (even if you build your own ship it may have imported systems).

[phongn]

I'm actually getting rid of upgraded OHPs over time if anyone wants them; they're somewhat more capable than the standard one (48-cell Mk. 41 tactical pack, 16-cell SDLS VLS with quadpack ESSM, SPS-49A(V) radar, updated combat system, 3" gun moved forward, more advanced CIWS, etc.)

[Master_Baerne]

I'm actually getting rid of upgraded OHPs over time if anyone wants them; they're somewhat more capable than the standard one.

The Duchy is always in the market for new ships; How much are we talking?

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

If people are looking for cheap frigates, I do have the Formidable variant of the La Fayette class up for sale. Drop a note, and we start constructing.

For info: http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/formidable/

A modification I made to the system, would be Aster-30 missles would be included. If one desires a SM-2/3 system, that is possible. Another addition would be a radar to detect sea-skimming missiles. Modifications of the current platform are welcomed if requested.

*tries to remember if there was anything else important he wanted to say, gets nothing* Well it'll no doubt come to me five minutes after I've logged off and shut my computer down.

EDIT: Oh yeah, me and Coyote are at the SNC conference as well, in case anyone forgot. We would have showed up with PeZook.

It happens to all of us.

You guys are welcome to participate, as soon as we get the SNC only stuff done.

*Cough* Lazy SNC dudes *cough*

I'm still waiting for input from the rest of you guys.

[Vohu Manah]

If people are looking for cheap frigates, I do have the Formidable variant of the La Fayette class up for sale. Drop a note, and we start constructing.

For info: http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/formidable/

A modification I made to the system, would be Aster-30 missles would be included. If one desires a SM-2/3 system, that is possible. Another addition would be a radar to detect sea-skimming missiles. Modifications of the current platform are welcomed if requested.

For stock Formidables what are the per ship costs and construction timeframe?

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

If people are looking for cheap frigates, I do have the Formidable variant of the La Fayette class up for sale. Drop a note, and we start constructing.

For info: http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/formidable/

A modification I made to the system, would be Aster-30 missles would be included. If one desires a SM-2/3 system, that is possible. Another addition would be a radar to detect sea-skimming missiles. Modifications of the current platform are welcomed if requested.

For stock Formidables what are the per ship costs and construction timeframe?

I'm guessing 300million. 6 ships in the Republic of Singapore Navy were constructed within 1-2 years, but given that they had to transfer technology to get the shipyards in Singapore to build the ships, I say I could build 6 of these things in under a year. Maybe less.

[K. A. Pital]

I'm actually getting rid of upgraded OHPs over time if anyone wants them

Hey phong, I'd like to get some cheap OHPs for target practice. At what price would you be selling those hulks? After all, their liquidation would also cost money, while I promise to pay transport, liquidation and fuel costs for the vessels

[Shinn Langley Soryu]

If people are looking for cheap frigates, I do have the Formidable variant of the La Fayette class up for sale. Drop a note, and we start constructing.

For info: http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/formidable/

A modification I made to the system, would be Aster-30 missles would be included. If one desires a SM-2/3 system, that is possible. Another addition would be a radar to detect sea-skimming missiles. Modifications of the current platform are welcomed if requested.

For stock Formidables what are the per ship costs and construction timeframe?

I'm guessing 300million. 6 ships in the Republic of Singapore Navy were constructed within 1-2 years, but given that they had to transfer technology to get the shipyards in Singapore to build the ships, I say I could build 6 of these things in under a year. Maybe less.

$300 million for a stock Formidable? Will it cost extra to refit it with a Mk 41 VLS and the sea skimmer detection radar? Also, the La Fayette on which the Formidable is based also had two 20 mm anti-aircraft guns and a Crotale missile launcher; how much more would it cost to fit a Rolling Airframe Missile launcher and two Phalanx or Goalkeeper CIWS onto the base Formidable design?

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

$300 million for a stock Formidable? Will it cost extra to refit it with a Mk 41 VLS and the sea skimmer detection radar? Also, the La Fayette on which the Formidable is based also had two 20 mm anti-aircraft guns and a Crotale missile launcher; how much more would it cost to fit a Rolling Airframe Missile launcher and two Phalanx or Goalkeeper CIWS onto the base Formidable design?

I'll take the Mk41 VLS as a 1 for 1 exchange for the current system, with the same number of cells. The La Fayette is quite different from the Formidable, starting from the radar to the weapon systems.

Addition of the sea skimming radar, RAM and 2 CIWS will be an additional 40-50million probably.

[Shinn Langley Soryu]

$300 million for a stock Formidable? Will it cost extra to refit it with a Mk 41 VLS and the sea skimmer detection radar? Also, the La Fayette on which the Formidable is based also had two 20 mm anti-aircraft guns and a Crotale missile launcher; how much more would it cost to fit a Rolling Airframe Missile launcher and two Phalanx or Goalkeeper CIWS onto the base Formidable design?

I'll take the Mk41 VLS as a 1 for 1 exchange for the current system, with the same number of cells. The La Fayette is quite different from the Formidable, starting from the radar to the weapon systems.

Addition of the sea skimming radar, RAM and 2 CIWS will be an additional 40-50million probably.

Just $40-50 million for the upgrades? Doesn't sound like too much, so I'll take them.

While we're here, you were also trying to sell me K2 Black Panthers, Puma IFVs, and F100 frigates, right? I'm going to propose a package deal.

The terms? Flat $8 billion for 8 Formidables modified to my specifications and 6 baseline F100s, along with licenses to produce the K2 and Puma and enough of said vehicles to equip three mech infantry brigades, one armored brigade, and my entire Marine Corps (whatever numbers those may be; if a platoon has 4 vehicles, a company has 4 platoons, a battalion has 4 companies, and a brigade has at least two battalions, I'm probably looking at a minimum of 384 Pumas and 128 K2s, plus an additional 30 K2s for the Marines).

Does that sound good, or do you want more cash?

I operate Challenger 2s with a slightly cut-down Rheinmetall L/55 (referred to as Challenger IIC or 2C) and am willing to sell in moderate numbers. I do have a very large contract with the motherland to sell them Chally IICs, but I think I could make you a battallion worth, maybe more?

As far as the ships, I have a couple-three VLS-equipped longhull Oliver Hazard Perry-class ships I'm willing to let go of, as I have newer Burke-based frigates completing very soon. PM me if you'd like them.

Lastly, I produce and field Desert Warrior IFVs; these are british FV510 Warrior IFVs with new LAV-25 turrets, armed with 30mm Bushmaster II cannons and one TOW missile launcher on each side of the turret. I can produce some of these for you as well.

Let me know!

I'd rather post my reply right here, if you don't mind. I'll have to turn down the offer for the Challenger 2s and the OHPs, but I'd be interested in sixty Desert Warriors to equip my Marines, with the option to acquire more should I need them. How much?

[phongn]

Hey phong, I'd like to get some cheap OHPs for target practice. At what price would you be selling those hulks? After all, their liquidation would also cost money, while I promise to pay transport, liquidation and fuel costs for the vessels

I'm really only getting rid of them as my newer frigates (Aegis-OHP, essentially) come on the line and I'd honestly prefer to sell them to someone who could use them. The excess will probably go into the Naval Reserve, though if the CSR wants to start trade with their mortal ideological enemies, all the same to us

[Czechmate]

I'd rather post my reply right here, if you don't mind. I'll have to turn down the offer for the Challenger 2s and the OHPs, but I'd be interested in sixty Desert Warriors to equip my Marines, with the option to acquire more should I need them. How much?

Desert Warriors aren't amphibious, just so you know. If you want an amphibious IFV, I make Expeditionary Fighting Vehicles, which have the same armament, capacity for 20, and are reasonably fast across land and sea.

I'll still sell you the Desert Warriors if you want.

[Shinn Langley Soryu]

Hey phong, I'd like to get some cheap OHPs for target practice. At what price would you be selling those hulks? After all, their liquidation would also cost money, while I promise to pay transport, liquidation and fuel costs for the vessels

I'm really only getting rid of them as my newer frigates (Aegis-OHP, essentially) come on the line and I'd honestly prefer to sell them to someone who could use them. The excess will probably go into the Naval Reserve, though if the CSR wants to start trade with their mortal ideological enemies, all the same to us

At least OHPs still have some use if they're upgraded. If Stas wants to play target practice with old American ships, he can have some of my decommissioned stuff (namely, several Brooke class frigates).

Speaking of which, joint exercises between the Langley and CSR navies wouldn't be such a bad idea...

I'd rather post my reply right here, if you don't mind. I'll have to turn down the offer for the Challenger 2s and the OHPs, but I'd be interested in sixty Desert Warriors to equip my Marines, with the option to acquire more should I need them. How much?

Desert Warriors aren't amphibious, just so you know. If you want an amphibious IFV, I make Expeditionary Fighting Vehicles, which have the same armament, capacity for 20, and are reasonably fast across land and sea.

I'll still sell you the Desert Warriors if you want.

You actually make the Expeditionary Fighting Vehicle? Awesome. I'll withdraw my offer for the sixty Desert Warriors and purchase an equal number of EFVs, then; as always, there's the option to acquire more should I need them. Again, how much?

[Vohu Manah]

Desert Warriors aren't amphibious, just so you know. If you want an amphibious IFV, I make Expeditionary Fighting Vehicles, which have the same armament, capacity for 20, and are reasonably fast across land and sea.

I'll still sell you the Desert Warriors if you want.

I was under the impression that experimental vehicles are only available in limited numbers and the EFV isn't a production vehicle yet.

[Czechmate]

Desert Warriors aren't amphibious, just so you know. If you want an amphibious IFV, I make Expeditionary Fighting Vehicles, which have the same armament, capacity for 20, and are reasonably fast across land and sea.

I'll still sell you the Desert Warriors if you want.

I was under the impression that experimental vehicles are only available in limited numbers and the EFV isn't a production vehicle yet.

Don't get bothered over it. Rules are a guideline, not law.

It's just another IFV with a turret, propulsors, and a forward skimming flap. Under all the shiny new paint and angular plating it's nothing terribly more advanced than a Bradley or a CV90.

EDIT: As a note, I only field about 50 of the damn things and do still operate AAV-7s.

EDIT 2: I consulted Beo, who came up with the rule in question; he says an experimental unit is available with the limitation of one batch thereof, so 4 fighters or 60 tanks or 120 IFVs or whatever. EFVs being IFVs, I could have two or three times as many of them as I currently do and still be entirely within the rules.

[Beowulf]

Prototype vehicles are only available in limited numbers for the initial buy. Past that, you can buy as many as your nation can afford. For the limit, you've got a flight of fixed wing aircraft, or a battalion of army vehicles.

[Vohu Manah]

Prototype vehicles are only available in limited numbers for the initial buy. Past that, you can buy as many as your nation can afford. For the limit, you've got a flight of fixed wing aircraft, or a battalion of army vehicles.

We're still talking about a vehicle in the prototype phase and per the real world schedule will remain so for another 4 years before going into initial production. I have no problem with his possession of the vehicle but he should be in no position now to offer the vehicle for sale.

[Sea Skimmer]

We're still talking about a vehicle in the prototype phase and per the real world schedule will remain so for another 4 years before going into initial production. I have no problem with his possession of the vehicle but he should be in no position now to offer the vehicle for sale.

People built space launch bases in a couple months, and are now testing large rockets after like one year elapsed, developing an armored vehicle that makes no special demands on new technology is going to be a very quick process by comparison. Thats reality of the game, R&D times will not be realistic and I know I don't want to wait around fifteen years for anything worth a damn either or else we should have gone with a WW2 setting.

[Steve]

*looks up from list of ADN starship designs* Oh, hrm, almost forgot I was in this STGOD.

So, anyone else for a Cascadian-hosted Frequesuan neutrality summit or shall I have that red carpet rolled back up?

[Sea Skimmer]

Japanistan will send someone along to such a thing

[Czechmate]

Dude. You're not getting it. Beo is the one who came up with this rule. His word on the matter is final.

I bought less than half a batch of EFVs to start, and I could make more and still be under the starting limit, much less the part that mentions you can buy/build more as you can afford them.

I can sell them if I want, but I never said I could sell very many EFVs at once. Maybe half a dozen at a time at the most.

PS: Shinn, I'll still sell you EFVs, but only half a dozen at a time. They're expensive and it could take upwards of a game year to complete your order.

EDIT: Steve, I will attend. It is in the interests of Tian Jiao (and as Beowulf has informed me, Tian Xia) to establish treaties of neutrality between the TJ/TX, filthy communist, and FTO factions on the continent.

EDIT 2: And for the record, I agree completely with Skimmer. No one wants to wait around forever for things in a game. It's not going to be 100% realistic. Ever.

[Shinn Langley Soryu]

PS: Shinn, I'll still sell you EFVs, but only half a dozen at a time. They're expensive and it could take upwards of a game year to complete your order.

Half a dozen per batch? Even if it'll take a year, I'll still take them. We'll have to figure out pricing later, though.

[Sea Skimmer]

Dude. You're not getting it. Beo is the one who came up with this rule. His word on the matter is final.

No it fucking isn't, he's not moderator and this isn't 'his' game. We agreed on rules collectively.