SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread II

Czechmate · Post by **Czechmate** » 2008-09-11 01:05am

Pricing? At least three or four million Tian Jian pounds per-vehicle. Little less than an Abrams or Challenger 2 costs IRL. They're quite expensive at this early stage, before the kinks of the production system are worked out.

It might be easiest for you to just send a single small ro-ro ship to me every three IC months or so and pick up the EFVs and their parts and equipment. Possibly also some LAV-25s if you want to buy those as well.

Czechmate · Post by **Czechmate** » 2008-09-11 01:09am

Sea Skimmer wrote:
Czechmate wrote:Dude. You're not getting it. Beo is the one who came up with this rule. His word on the matter is final.
No it fucking isn't, he's not moderator and this isn't 'his' game. We agreed on rules collectively.

Not you. Vohu.

Vohu Manah · Post by **Vohu Manah** » 2008-09-11 01:12am

Czechmate wrote:Dude. You're not getting it. Beo is the one who came up with this rule. His word on the matter is final.

Actually it is The Duchess of Zeon's word that is final, but I'm not holding out for any official ruling. And obviously there was no reason for the rule in the first place if it could be so easily bypassed the very moment the game started.

Czechmate wrote:I bought less than half a batch of EFVs to start, and I could make more and still be under the starting limit, much less the part that mentions you can buy/build more as you can afford them

I can sell them if I want, but I never said I could sell very many EFVs at once. Maybe half a dozen at a time at the most.

Irrelevant for the purpose of the "starting limit." You left them on the table before the game started and the fact you did so doesn't change my problem with you being able to sell them not even 1 year into the game.

Czechmate wrote:EDIT 2: And for the record, I agree completely with Skimmer. No one wants to wait around forever for things in a game. It's not going to be 100% realistic. Ever.

Good for you. I wasn't asking for realism and if I was I most seriously doubt a nation our size would ever consider deploying that particular IFV prototype. However I am asking for a level of reason. There is no point to limiting prototype technologies from the beginning if every nation can immediately order more or offer them for sale. We may as well all have laser weapons and railguns going by that logic.

Czechmate · Post by **Czechmate** » 2008-09-11 01:20am

You are blowing this out of proportion for no reason. I just agreed with Shinn that I can only sell him a handful of the things at a time, which is reasonable. You don't see me spamming out Su-47s, now do you?

As far as our being able to make or buy more, we can, but they come in limited numbers. So your whining about that is pretty much pointless.

TL;DR - quitcher bitchin. until and IF this game reaches around 2012 or 2013 ingame, I'll make EFVs at low rate. you have my word I won't magically have an amtrac force the size of the USMC's.

Vohu Manah · Post by **Vohu Manah** » 2008-09-11 01:51am

Czechmate wrote:You are blowing this out of proportion for no reason. I just agreed with Shinn that I can only sell him a handful of the things at a time, which is reasonable. You don't see me spamming out Su-47s, now do you?

And according to the current interpretation of the prototype rules there is technically nothing stopping you from spamming either the EFV or the Su-47 or F-35 or anything even remotely possible based on current real world tech. That, in and of itself, is a problem. Again, I am not asking for realistic just a level of reason. You shouldn't be producing anything considered a prototype now in sufficient numbers for sale for at least a couple of years.

Czechmate wrote:As far as our being able to make or buy more, we can, but they come in limited numbers. So your whining about that is pretty much pointless.

No, it isn't pointless. Again what is the point of having rules for prototypes that can so easily be bypassed? Anyone prototyping anything should be locked into a minimum schedule (I'm not talking real life schedules, but not so accelerated that any country can produce any tech not already existing in a matter of months) that includes prohibitions for sale (since so few units in early stages would be built and at such cost to make them prohibitively expensive).

Czechmate wrote:TL;DR - quitcher bitchin. until and IF this game reaches around 2012 or 2013 ingame, I'll make EFVs at low rate. you have my word I won't magically have an amtrac force the size of the USMC's.

You'll have to excuse me if I don't believe you for one second. The very fact you are willing to sell what you acknowledge is a prototype product means you're producing them full force (they'd be prohibitively expensive otherwise and being "cutting edge" tech why would you give a potential opponent your own gear to examine at their leisure).

If the consensus of the group is to not address the problem then fine consider the issue dropped.

Fingolfin_Noldor · Post by **Fingolfin_Noldor** » 2008-09-11 02:08am

Shinn Langley Soryu wrote:Just $40-50 million for the upgrades? Doesn't sound like too much, so I'll take them.

While we're here, you were also trying to sell me K2 Black Panthers, Puma IFVs, and F100 frigates, right? I'm going to propose a package deal.

The terms? Flat $8 billion for 8 Formidables modified to my specifications and 6 baseline F100s, along with licenses to produce the K2 and Puma and enough of said vehicles to equip three mech infantry brigades, one armored brigade, and my entire Marine Corps (whatever numbers those may be; if a platoon has 4 vehicles, a company has 4 platoons, a battalion has 4 companies, and a brigade has at least two battalions, I'm probably looking at a minimum of 384 Pumas and 128 K2s, plus an additional 30 K2s for the Marines).

Does that sound good, or do you want more cash?

Sounds good enough. You want to produce the vehicles locally? I guess I will send the engineers down.

I'll get the frigates produced in about 1-1.5 years then.

Czechmate · Post by **Czechmate** » 2008-09-11 02:12am

Man, y'know what? I ain't gonna sell em. I'll keep every damn EFV I build under the Low Rate Initial Production plan for myself. Sorry Shinn. You get screwed cause Vohu won't just leave well enough alone. If you have a problem, take it up with him.

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2008-09-11 03:10am

Why the hell are people spamming 5th generation fighters?

Wasn't there a rule specifically designated to ban their fast aquisition and proliferation?

New production should be sane.

Czechmate · Post by **Czechmate** » 2008-09-11 03:12am

I dunno, Stas. I'm only LRIP-ing some new ground vehicles and producing Su-30MKIs at a rate only mildly faster. I can't really speak for people who are putting Raptors and Lightnings into production.

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2008-09-11 03:16am

And Greenpeace buying a Foxtrot sub? Really?

Can they even do it? I think no sane nation would give them a possibility to buy such an asset. Also, why did they attack Shep and say not my nuclear bulkers travelling the Arctic waters? Sounds like ad-hoc reason to "increase our military presence". Well, well

Czechmate · Post by **Czechmate** » 2008-09-11 03:22am

Yo stas. You're a Russian equipment buff, yeah? What generation would you say the Su-47 Berkut/'FIRKIN' falls under? 4.5? 4.75?

Fingolfin_Noldor · Post by **Fingolfin_Noldor** » 2008-09-11 03:22am

Well, I'm busy acquiring F-22As, with production to span over a couple or more years.

AS for those subs, who was the lunatic who sold those to them?

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2008-09-11 03:25am

Stas Bush wrote:And Greenpeace buying a Foxtrot sub? Really?

Seaquest episode mang.

Can they even do it? I think no sane nation would give them a possibility to buy such an asset.

Well, the Japanistanis sold the foxtrot onto the world market quite a bit ago; I'm sure some resellers resold the sub...

Also, why did they attack Shep and say not my nuclear bulkers travelling the Arctic waters?

Because to Shroompeace; killing the majestic Purple Whale is a death penalty offense.

Sounds like ad-hoc reason to "increase our military presence". Well, well

A small shepistani outpost shall be set up in the artic as a result of this.

Fingolfin_Noldor · Post by **Fingolfin_Noldor** » 2008-09-11 03:30am

Let it be known that Byzantium considers piracy a chargeable offence with death penalty. If any are found in our waters, we will just either shoot them, or if we actually do bother to capture them, we'll bring them to the nearest naval yard for tribunal, then shoot them.

Norseman · Post by **Norseman** » 2008-09-11 03:38am

By the way it'd be nice if we could have some sort of list over which nations have diplomatic relations and such. For story reasons I'll need to know what kind of relations Shroomania and the CSR has with Astaria. Also if Astarian airplanes can land in either country.

Also would the CSR consider selling us some icebreakers and other materials for peaceful exploration?

Given that much of our gear is East Block I have to wonder if we ripped off East Block designs or bought them.

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2008-09-11 05:35am

Su 47 is a 4.75 technology demonstrator, but not a true multirole fighter (and it's proposed weaponry, well, is sort of lacking). The MiG 1.44 is closer to a 5th Gen experimental machine.

Note that in this game, I decided against it. The machine is a rather fancy show-off, but as a design for a true warplane it's far from finished - and far from ideal.

I would probably have chosen MiG 1.44 as the next best thing if PAK/FA was not available.

Also would the CSR consider selling us some icebreakers and other materials for peaceful exploration?

Yes. What do you need? Atomic icebreakers? You could lease some or order a new one to be constructed. I can't sell strategic assets

Czechmate · Post by **Czechmate** » 2008-09-11 05:46am

The Su-47 has the advantage of being gorgeous. I was thinking of making some for kicks, as squadron-leader planes for my Su-30MKI units.

DarthShady · Post by **DarthShady** » 2008-09-11 06:18am

Goddamn Libertopians, eh Shep.

I miss Shrooms Insane Plots.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2008-09-11 06:24am

and vicious attack seals are unveiled.

Fingolfin_Noldor · Post by **Fingolfin_Noldor** » 2008-09-11 06:31am

MKSheppard wrote:and vicious attack seals are unveiled.

Hmm... Seal meat...

Lonestar · Post by **Lonestar** » 2008-09-11 08:25am

Talley-ho we're good to go!

Still on a buisness trip in Floribama, so my participation will be intermittant.

Raj Ahten · Post by **Raj Ahten** » 2008-09-11 08:43am

Steve wrote:*looks up from list of ADN starship designs* Oh, hrm, almost forgot I was in this STGOD.

So, anyone else for a Cascadian-hosted Frequesuan neutrality summit or shall I have that red carpet rolled back up?

Well Indhopal is still for the conference, though smaller scale talks might be what is in order.

Some people in Indhopal are very concerned about theMESS's intenions in Frequsue and Cascadia could probably do a lot to calm them down.

Siege · Post by **Siege** » 2008-09-11 08:49am

Raj Ahten wrote:Well Indhopal is still for the conference, though smaller scale talks might be what is in order.

San Dorado will be more than happy to send over a delegation as well!

Raj Ahten · Post by **Raj Ahten** » 2008-09-11 08:57am

A question for Sea Skimmer here: Earlier you were talking about how Japanistan had diesel subs that could launch a couple of SCUDS. Indhopal is very interested in relatively cheap submarines with a missile capability. Would Japanistan be interested in selling Indopal subs or partnering with Indhopal to produce a new class of subs?

If not (or even if we do) what sort of real life sub class should I be looking at for inspiration for a capable, but "inexpensive", submarine?

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2008-09-11 09:06am

The CSR will be present. Valery Zorin is our ambassador.

P.S. Hey Raj, are you trying to kill the Operation Judith?

I thought the hundreds of saboteurs and agents the PRSF sent in with the refugee wave at least would, like, bomb something (or kill someone, which is also good).

Though I see Czech doesn't notice the fact that he assembled thousands of people into fugee camps and did nothing afterwards