Good and bad US government trends of this decade so far
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- Darth Wong
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Good and bad US government trends of this decade so far
Here's an exercise: without mentioning names or parties (in an attempt to get personality politics out of this), describe what you feel to be the best and worst policy trends in the US government in this decade so far. Remember: we're talking about actual policy trends, not political trends. There's a difference: policy is what the government actually does, while politics is what they say to the American people (note: foreign policy includes both what they say and what they do, since diplomacy is part of foreign policy).
My list
Good:
- Finally taking AIDS seriously.
- Finally recognizing that oil supply is a problem
(I honestly can't think of any others; any help?)
Bad:
- Sharp increase in pork-barrel spending
- Increased foreign military interventionism
- Sharp increase in military costs (obviously)
- Deregulation. Specifically, deregulation as a blanket goal across the board rather than a solution to particular problems.
- Shifting of the tax burden away from the wealthy and toward the middle class
- Increased deficits
- Increased authoritarianism, with greater powers for federal security agencies and the president in particular
Agree? Disagree? I wonder what a hard-right conservative would put down as his list. I imagine it would be drastically different from mine.
My list
Good:
- Finally taking AIDS seriously.
- Finally recognizing that oil supply is a problem
(I honestly can't think of any others; any help?)
Bad:
- Sharp increase in pork-barrel spending
- Increased foreign military interventionism
- Sharp increase in military costs (obviously)
- Deregulation. Specifically, deregulation as a blanket goal across the board rather than a solution to particular problems.
- Shifting of the tax burden away from the wealthy and toward the middle class
- Increased deficits
- Increased authoritarianism, with greater powers for federal security agencies and the president in particular
Agree? Disagree? I wonder what a hard-right conservative would put down as his list. I imagine it would be drastically different from mine.
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"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
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"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
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I can name one that has affected my wallet. Recently, a bill was passed that stopped insurance companies from discriminating against mental health treatment. Before this bill, insurance companies usually wouldn't cover anything but the most severe types of psychiatric illness. Now, because of that bill, they have to treat mental health issues exactly as if they were any other type of medical issue.
Of course, Shrubby vetoed the bill when it was put on his desk... but Congress, in an unusually rare form, overrode his stupid ass.
Here's the kicker though; my wife and I are a family which has, for the most part, great health insurance and could afford the treatment I have been receiving anyway. For us, this really translates into less money spent on seeing a doctor. It's a great step that will help lots of people, but still a step that was long overdue and reflective of system that's pretty screwed up.
Of course, Shrubby vetoed the bill when it was put on his desk... but Congress, in an unusually rare form, overrode his stupid ass.
Here's the kicker though; my wife and I are a family which has, for the most part, great health insurance and could afford the treatment I have been receiving anyway. For us, this really translates into less money spent on seeing a doctor. It's a great step that will help lots of people, but still a step that was long overdue and reflective of system that's pretty screwed up.
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- Metatwaddle
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This is a big one. The increased power is not limited to the president, either - it's the entire executive branch. Executive privilege has been expanded to the entire White House to the point where White House employees have been able to avoid subpoenas.- Increased authoritarianism, with greater powers for federal security agencies and the president in particular
Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things... their number is negligible and they are stupid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower
A good trend has been the increase in US aid to Africa. Sure, a lot is spent on abstinence programs and other idiocies plus the main aim seems to be to counter the increasing chinese influence, but overall more aid has flown into Africa.
Maybe a mixed blessing, but a blessing nonetheless.
Maybe a mixed blessing, but a blessing nonetheless.
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A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
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- RedImperator
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Since negative is easy, I'll add a positive one: setting aside huge swaths of the Pacific Ocean as National Monuments--one already exists, and another is proposed.
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As a positive, I would say increased awareness of Health-care issues in America, but it's too early to say if anything is going to come of it. This CBS poll shows that enough people know that it's a big problem and understand that it's going to take a national effort to fix, which demonstrates that it's a bipartisan issue as far as voters are concerned. National health-care has been pushed in each of the last three decades with no real effect, but this time I think more people are aware of what a big problem it is.
This is a pretty serious statistic--90% of those polled think our health-care system needs to be fixed fundamentally. If this level of awareness keeps up, and a kind of non-partisan consensus (including perhaps grassroots political organizations that can try to represent the overwhelming majority that supports universal coverage) can build, this issue might come to a head regardless of who wins the presidential election.
This is a pretty serious statistic--90% of those polled think our health-care system needs to be fixed fundamentally. If this level of awareness keeps up, and a kind of non-partisan consensus (including perhaps grassroots political organizations that can try to represent the overwhelming majority that supports universal coverage) can build, this issue might come to a head regardless of who wins the presidential election.
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Good: Overall, I think that environmental policies are increasing and improving, despite some high-visibility fuckups.
Bad: Less and less willingness to accept some give-and-take with foreign relationships. We've always been bad at this, but lately it seems more and more that "our way or the highway", even among allies, is increasing.
Increased willingness to allow religious influences in governing policy, and giving credence to religious "fairness" in education. Very, very bad.
Bad: Less and less willingness to accept some give-and-take with foreign relationships. We've always been bad at this, but lately it seems more and more that "our way or the highway", even among allies, is increasing.
Increased willingness to allow religious influences in governing policy, and giving credence to religious "fairness" in education. Very, very bad.
Something about Libertarianism always bothered me. Then one day, I realized what it was:
Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."
In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around!
If all you want to do is have some harmless, mindless fun, go H3RE INST3ADZ0RZ!!
Grrr! Fight my Brute, you pansy!
Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."
In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around!
If all you want to do is have some harmless, mindless fun, go H3RE INST3ADZ0RZ!!
Grrr! Fight my Brute, you pansy!
- Illuminatus Primus
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Re: Good and bad US government trends of this decade so far
I realize this is controversial among left-wingers, and putting it in E. Europe may seem like dick-waving but: missile defense. Its better than the Reagan and typical Bush approach, in that its a genuine stand-down from brinkmanship and deterrence of 20 minute annihilation at any time. Its an essentially defensive technology. The other obvious one is a long overdue unfreezing of nuclear power development by the Bush Administration. And at least AQ isn't operating their bases and infrastructure in Afghanistan with complete impunity.Darth Wong wrote: My list
Good:
- Finally taking AIDS seriously.
- Finally recognizing that oil supply is a problem
(I honestly can't think of any others; any help?)
"You know what the problem with Hollywood is. They make shit. Unbelievable. Unremarkable. Shit." - Gabriel Shear, Swordfish
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"This statement, in its utterly clueless hubristic stupidity, cannot be improved upon. I merely quote it in admiration of its perfection." - Garibaldi in reply to an incredibly stupid post.
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Another good (all mine were supposed to be good): despite attempts and rhetoric to the contrary, gay rights have improved and gay marriage looks much closer a reality than in 1998.
"You know what the problem with Hollywood is. They make shit. Unbelievable. Unremarkable. Shit." - Gabriel Shear, Swordfish
"This statement, in its utterly clueless hubristic stupidity, cannot be improved upon. I merely quote it in admiration of its perfection." - Garibaldi in reply to an incredibly stupid post.
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"This statement, in its utterly clueless hubristic stupidity, cannot be improved upon. I merely quote it in admiration of its perfection." - Garibaldi in reply to an incredibly stupid post.
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- Illuminatus Primus
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Yeah, the top mutual funds are doing just great, and that money went into the great speculation bubbles of the last decade. Maybe the largest bubbles ever, and crept us dangerously toward financial devestation.SancheztheWhaler wrote:Lowering of Capital Gains tax from 25% to 15%, encouraging investment among middle-income folks (of course, this mostly helps wealthy people, but it still is beneficial to those of us not making $250K+/year
"You know what the problem with Hollywood is. They make shit. Unbelievable. Unremarkable. Shit." - Gabriel Shear, Swordfish
"This statement, in its utterly clueless hubristic stupidity, cannot be improved upon. I merely quote it in admiration of its perfection." - Garibaldi in reply to an incredibly stupid post.
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"This statement, in its utterly clueless hubristic stupidity, cannot be improved upon. I merely quote it in admiration of its perfection." - Garibaldi in reply to an incredibly stupid post.
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Not as a result of governmental policy, but despite it.Illuminatus Primus wrote:Another good (all mine were supposed to be good): despite attempts and rhetoric to the contrary, gay rights have improved and gay marriage looks much closer a reality than in 1998.
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Why is it so goddamned hard to get little assholes like you to admit it when you fuck up? Is it pride? What gives you the right to have any pride?
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GOP message? Why don't they just come out of the closet: FASCISTS R' US –Patrick Degan
The GOP has a problem with anyone coming out of the closet. –18-till-I-die
Why is it so goddamned hard to get little assholes like you to admit it when you fuck up? Is it pride? What gives you the right to have any pride?
–Darth Wong to vivftp
GOP message? Why don't they just come out of the closet: FASCISTS R' US –Patrick Degan
The GOP has a problem with anyone coming out of the closet. –18-till-I-die
- RedImperator
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Call it policy by omission: there was one anemic attempt to pass a Defense of Marriage Amendment that the Republican leadership knew was going to fail, and nothing since then. That's the only way the national government could stop the trend.Edi wrote:Not as a result of governmental policy, but despite it.Illuminatus Primus wrote:Another good (all mine were supposed to be good): despite attempts and rhetoric to the contrary, gay rights have improved and gay marriage looks much closer a reality than in 1998.
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Kind of an odd good thing: America has been knocked off our high horse. Post 9/11 America had this 2 week shining rise of being everyones star, and then we got very full of ourselves. Despite the many bad things it has wrought (Iraq, Iranian bluster, diplomatic mistake after mistake) America needed to be reminded that we are very inexperienced at being a hegemon. And I believe we have gotten that. One can look at the campaign as some proof, since both candidates are running on a we don't do bush foreign policy bent. However, McCain seems to be running on a "I know better" campaign, which is kinda frightening. It took Britain hundreds of years to get to their empire stage, and America has simply had the world thrust upon it for the last 20 and we aren't as good at being top dog as we like to think.
The idea of a U.S. that is both strong and competent is very appealing to me as an American, although I think so for we have shown that the two things seem to be mutually exclusive. But general dissatisfaction with Bush and Bush policy shows a trend towards wanting increased competency (if our voters were intelligent enough to recognize it).
The idea of a U.S. that is both strong and competent is very appealing to me as an American, although I think so for we have shown that the two things seem to be mutually exclusive. But general dissatisfaction with Bush and Bush policy shows a trend towards wanting increased competency (if our voters were intelligent enough to recognize it).
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That is an international political trend, not an American domestic policy trend. Nothing whatsoever in US government policy reflects any recognition of this (hypothetical) newfound national sense of vulnerability, at least not yet.Dark Hellion wrote:Kind of an odd good thing: America has been knocked off our high horse. Post 9/11 America had this 2 week shining rise of being everyones star, and then we got very full of ourselves. Despite the many bad things it has wrought (Iraq, Iranian bluster, diplomatic mistake after mistake) America needed to be reminded that we are very inexperienced at being a hegemon. And I believe we have gotten that. One can look at the campaign as some proof, since both candidates are running on a we don't do bush foreign policy bent. However, McCain seems to be running on a "I know better" campaign, which is kinda frightening. It took Britain hundreds of years to get to their empire stage, and America has simply had the world thrust upon it for the last 20 and we aren't as good at being top dog as we like to think.
The idea of a U.S. that is both strong and competent is very appealing to me as an American, although I think so for we have shown that the two things seem to be mutually exclusive. But general dissatisfaction with Bush and Bush policy shows a trend towards wanting increased competency (if our voters were intelligent enough to recognize it).
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"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
Good:Disaster response, this is a side affect of the Media and Katrina but now the Public thinks nothing of a Governor calling in the National Guard from every state in a thousand miles and it being not only accepted but EXPECTED, cost be damned!
For those who've not lived through a Hurricane before, it IS unusual that Virgina National Guard is in Texas this week were headed to Louisiana to deal with Ike and help with Gustav cleanup. Normally unless your state touched the affected state as far as the NG was concerned it was on the frigging moon. But I've heard from friends that they are calling up everyone not just back(Last month) from Iraq with need qualifications(Engineers/Maintenance/Medical and so on)
I've heard locally that Ohio is sending NG troops as well. In a sense this is how the National Guard should work but it's not done so. Ike has been an excellent response so far and been handled well.
Does anyone remember Hurricanes prior to Katrina? We take this shit seriously now, all it took was tons of media coverage and the near loss of a major American city.
For those who've not lived through a Hurricane before, it IS unusual that Virgina National Guard is in Texas this week were headed to Louisiana to deal with Ike and help with Gustav cleanup. Normally unless your state touched the affected state as far as the NG was concerned it was on the frigging moon. But I've heard from friends that they are calling up everyone not just back(Last month) from Iraq with need qualifications(Engineers/Maintenance/Medical and so on)
I've heard locally that Ohio is sending NG troops as well. In a sense this is how the National Guard should work but it's not done so. Ike has been an excellent response so far and been handled well.
Does anyone remember Hurricanes prior to Katrina? We take this shit seriously now, all it took was tons of media coverage and the near loss of a major American city.
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Good:
-No Child Left Behind. The problem with it is that 90% of the students at my school didn't care about the state exams because they knew they could pass the test blindfolded, and that there would be no reward for any score that exceeds the passing point. Nonetheless, NCLB is a positive trend
-We've seen some progress with school vouchers.
-NEPA has been working pretty well. Most of the recent lawsuits related to NEPA have been won by federal agencies.
Bad:
-Federal assistance for college loans is basically unconditional.
I could take out a solid 30k in subsidized federal loans if my major was underwater basket weaving... Yes, there are students who are making a good investment with that money, but a lot of them are blowing federal money on a degree that will barely affect their ability to produce for society. I remember quite a few of my bosses at Arby's had degrees in Accounting, and worked in low level management because it paid more.
-Tax cuts when we're facing a deficit.
-No Child Left Behind. The problem with it is that 90% of the students at my school didn't care about the state exams because they knew they could pass the test blindfolded, and that there would be no reward for any score that exceeds the passing point. Nonetheless, NCLB is a positive trend
-We've seen some progress with school vouchers.
-NEPA has been working pretty well. Most of the recent lawsuits related to NEPA have been won by federal agencies.
Bad:
-Federal assistance for college loans is basically unconditional.
I could take out a solid 30k in subsidized federal loans if my major was underwater basket weaving... Yes, there are students who are making a good investment with that money, but a lot of them are blowing federal money on a degree that will barely affect their ability to produce for society. I remember quite a few of my bosses at Arby's had degrees in Accounting, and worked in low level management because it paid more.
-Tax cuts when we're facing a deficit.
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Yeah, but keep in mind that you can't declare bankruptcy on them anymore unless you either die or are crippled to beyond the point where you could do any effort at all to pay them back. That's why the companies are so eager to give them out; they can always have Collections get on your ass later, and jack up the amount you owe with late fees and the like.I could take out a solid 30k in subsidized federal loans if my major was underwater basket weaving... Yes, there are students who are making a good investment with that money, but a lot of them are blowing federal money on a degree that will barely affect their ability to produce for society. I remember quite a few of my bosses at Arby's had degrees in Accounting, and worked in low level management because it paid more.
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I see this as a function of the Fundies being so odious the rest of America is swinging hard to the left as a simple expedient evasive maneuver. The twin facts of the Internet's liberalizing influence across broad swaths of the populace and that the religious nutbars hitched their wagon to the same party with the worst economic policies in recent memory is just hardening America's rejection of their bullshit. People are voting for peace, love, understanding, and good fiscal policy.RedImperator wrote:Call it policy by omission: there was one anemic attempt to pass a Defense of Marriage Amendment that the Republican leadership knew was going to fail, and nothing since then. That's the only way the national government could stop the trend.Edi wrote:Not as a result of governmental policy, but despite it.Illuminatus Primus wrote:Another good (all mine were supposed to be good): despite attempts and rhetoric to the contrary, gay rights have improved and gay marriage looks much closer a reality than in 1998.
I'm seeing it getting described as out-and-out Communism, just for people who already have more money than they should ever had any business having.LMSx wrote:Bad: the privatization of reward and the socialization of risk WRT big businesses. When major businesses fail they get multibillion dollar taxpayer bailouts, when businesses succeed the taxpayer has no right to any of their money and we should cut their taxes more.
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Can't wait for RedImperator ripping into this bit. The NCLB legislation and policy is a complete step backward because it has been designed to punish schools that do badly, the expectations are lifted higher every year, so sooner or later everyone will fail. It actually punishes those who need help the most and is a complete clusterfuck.CaptainZoidberg wrote:Good:
-No Child Left Behind. The problem with it is that 90% of the students at my school didn't care about the state exams because they knew they could pass the test blindfolded, and that there would be no reward for any score that exceeds the passing point. Nonetheless, NCLB is a positive trend
-We've seen some progress with school vouchers.
Warwolf Urban Combat Specialist
Why is it so goddamned hard to get little assholes like you to admit it when you fuck up? Is it pride? What gives you the right to have any pride?
–Darth Wong to vivftp
GOP message? Why don't they just come out of the closet: FASCISTS R' US –Patrick Degan
The GOP has a problem with anyone coming out of the closet. –18-till-I-die
Why is it so goddamned hard to get little assholes like you to admit it when you fuck up? Is it pride? What gives you the right to have any pride?
–Darth Wong to vivftp
GOP message? Why don't they just come out of the closet: FASCISTS R' US –Patrick Degan
The GOP has a problem with anyone coming out of the closet. –18-till-I-die
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That leads me to believe it's a ploy to destroy public education as the dirty communist clusterfuck (the 'Privatize Everything Especially If It Has A Cost' Right Wing say) it is.Edi wrote:Can't wait for RedImperator ripping into this bit. The NCLB legislation and policy is a complete step backward because it has been designed to punish schools that do badly, the expectations are lifted higher every year, so sooner or later everyone will fail. It actually punishes those who need help the most and is a complete clusterfuck.CaptainZoidberg wrote:Good:
-No Child Left Behind. The problem with it is that 90% of the students at my school didn't care about the state exams because they knew they could pass the test blindfolded, and that there would be no reward for any score that exceeds the passing point. Nonetheless, NCLB is a positive trend
-We've seen some progress with school vouchers.
To replace it, they want privatized corporate-Christian Dominionist madrassahs.
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- Padawan Learner
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- Joined: 2008-05-24 12:05pm
- Location: Worcester Polytechnic
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I don't believe that it's a perfect policy. In fact I'd like to see the government attach some sort of scholarship money to the HSAs, so that kids who have no trouble passing don't see the test as a joke.Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:Please explain exactly how "No Child Left Behind" is a good policy.
We could also improve NCLB by giving teachers merit pay based on whether their students underperform or overperform expectations (calculated based on students older achievement and aptitude scores).
But I've known some kids who have failed HSAs, or have had trouble passing, and I saw that there were positive benefits of NCLB. For example, there was a guy in my English class who managed to gets Bs and Cs in his english classes, but failed the HSAs because he had very weak writing skills. Ideally, teachers would diagnose this and not pass a kid through their English classes until they're proficient, but in reality teachers often give enough "free credit" so that students can pass their classes even if they are not proficient with the material. And it's not like the teachers aren't trying their hardest, it's just that they have troublemakers and malicious students to focus on too.
But when a student passes the HSA, the student is given resources to help them to pass the HSA, and the problem is diagnosed and treated. Without NCLB, a student could just go through High School without any deliberate effort to fix those problems.
Exactly. But in such a case where the student is unsuccessful, the government loses all of the subsidies it gave out, and it loses out on the taxes that that person might have paid.Guardsman Bass wrote:Yeah, but keep in mind that you can't declare bankruptcy on them anymore unless you either die or are crippled to beyond the point where you could do any effort at all to pay them back. That's why the companies are so eager to give them out; they can always have Collections get on your ass later, and jack up the amount you owe with late fees and the like.
If students with bad plans weren't so easily given huge amounts of loans, the students might go into more practical majors, or create better economic plans.
By all means, we should keep the Perkins and Stafford loans. Without them I wouldn't be studying engineering now, but the problem is when students use the loans to get degrees that won't give them any extra earning power.
Was that because of the capital gains tax reduction, or because of other factors? The capital gains tax reduction only applies if you own stock for at least a year; otherwise it's treated as regular income.Illuminatus Primus wrote:Yeah, the top mutual funds are doing just great, and that money went into the great speculation bubbles of the last decade. Maybe the largest bubbles ever, and crept us dangerously toward financial devestation.SancheztheWhaler wrote:Lowering of Capital Gains tax from 25% to 15%, encouraging investment among middle-income folks (of course, this mostly helps wealthy people, but it still is beneficial to those of us not making $250K+/year
In Brazil they say that Pele was the best, but Garrincha was better