Palin Discussion [split]

[Metatwaddle]

She also had the foresight to get knocked up while she was the governor of Alaska. And 44. And the child has Down's Syndrome. Having a child that late is irresponsible enough, but to do it while you're running a state and then accepting a vice presidential nomination? That's ludicrous. I guess running Alaska gives her plenty of free time to spend with her special needs baby. Must not be that hard of a job.

I don't like Palin, but would you be this quick to condemn her choice to run this campaign if she were the father of a special needs baby? There are still a lot of assumptions about who primarily takes care of kids, but they weren't true when my sister was born (my dad was the primary caretaker) and they don't have to be true in Palin's case.

[SirNitram]

She also had the foresight to get knocked up while she was the governor of Alaska. And 44. And the child has Down's Syndrome. Having a child that late is irresponsible enough, but to do it while you're running a state and then accepting a vice presidential nomination? That's ludicrous. I guess running Alaska gives her plenty of free time to spend with her special needs baby. Must not be that hard of a job.

I don't like Palin, but would you be this quick to condemn her choice to run this campaign if she were the father of a special needs baby? There are still a lot of assumptions about who primarily takes care of kids, but they weren't true when my sister was born (my dad was the primary caretaker) and they don't have to be true in Palin's case.

I would.

It comes from having the tiniest inkling of the support any special-needs kid needs at that age, especially Down's Syndrome.

[Durandal]

I have to wonder, how many of the people impressed by Sarah Palin have actually interviewed candidates for a job before? I have. And Palin's claims versus reality are exactly the kind of crap I'd expect on the résumeé of some computer science major fresh out of college. They throw everything they can on there in the hopes that something will catch a screener's eye.

So instead of a long, verbose list of programming language experience, you get "foreign policy experience, energy experience, executive experience" and all that. But when you actually ask about these things, it's clear the candidate has nothing more than a passing, shallow knowledge of them.

Then there's the exaggerated responsibilities. Candidates often put impressive-sounding projects on their résumés, like "Wrote a C compiler from scratch" or "Built a robot capable of driving a car". They're not lying; they just neglect to mention the scope of their role in the project, which if often minimal. Palin's exhibited this in spades. She overplays her responsibilities as mayor of a small town (and insults others who she views as having less responsibility) and exaggerates her accomplishments as governor of Alaska. (If you listen to her, there's already an Alaskan oil pipeline, and Alaska provides 20% of the United States' energy.) It's like the guy who built the accelerometer for the first atomic bomb putting "Manhattan Project Engineer" on his résumé. True, but not as impressive as it sounds.

If I was interviewing Sarah Palin, and I asked about her foreign policy experience, and she told me that she lived kinda close to Russia, I'd start looking for ways to wrap up the interview.

[Durandal]

I don't like Palin, but would you be this quick to condemn her choice to run this campaign if she were the father of a special needs baby? There are still a lot of assumptions about who primarily takes care of kids, but they weren't true when my sister was born (my dad was the primary caretaker) and they don't have to be true in Palin's case.

Children with Down's Syndrome have a lot of trouble bonding with their mothers, and they require a lot of extra attention. Palin went back to work 3 days after having her child. Even in America, where we work ourselves to death, typical maternity leaves are 6 weeks. For normal babies. If it was a normal, healthy baby, that'd be different. But this child has Down's Syndrome, and the mother is going to be stuck in the national spotlight during an important period of its life.

No matter how you slice it, it was irresponsible for her to get pregnant at that age when she had an important job.

It all goes back to Republicans' views on children. They only give a shit about them when they're inside the womb. Once they pop out, fuck 'em. Palin's behavior illustrates that marvelously.

[Superman]

Say that you like Sarah Palin because she reminds you of your mommy

Heh. My psychiatrist would have a field day with that one... I'm just busting your balls, chewie.

You know, I just looked up Alaska's population and it's listed at slightly over 670,000. Sacramento County, where I live, has a population of about 1,347,799. Put into perspective, the fact that Palin got elected by a state with a population of less than my county doesn't really strike me as being all that impressive. Normally, I wouldn't hold that against someone like her, but when you look at the big picture, she looks like she really does look like she's straight out of the "Beverly Hillbillies," complete with kids named "Bristol" and "Trig."

[Superman]

Shit, hit "send" again too quickly. Sorry about the lack of editing.

[Metatwaddle]

To be fair, Biden was elected by a comparable number of people to his Senate seat (we have about 850,000 people), but everyone knows Delawareans have more sensible voting habits than Alaskans.

To stick up for us little states for a moment, I think the difference between governing a county and governing a state is not what the difference between your county's and her state's populations would suggest. The scope of a state's power is much larger than that of a county's. (I know you never said otherwise, I just thought it was a point worth making.)

[SirNitram]

To be fair, Biden was elected by a comparable number of people to his Senate seat (we have about 850,000 people), but everyone knows Delawareans have more sensible voting habits than Alaskans.

To stick up for us little states for a moment, I think the difference between governing a county and governing a state is not what the difference between your county's and her state's populations would suggest. The scope of a state's power is much larger than that of a county's. (I know you never said otherwise, I just thought it was a point worth making.)

It's ultimately a question of 'What has she accomplished'? And it's mostly 'Ran up debt, demanded outrageous amounts of pork, did a truckload of unethical if not downright corrupt things, charged her state to work at home(Do people get I don't like this?), and wasted gobs of cash.'

[Metatwaddle]

Yeah, she sounds like a shit governor. I don't understand why she's so popular there. I'm not convinced they'd like her just for being "booo women and gay people, yaaaay unborn babies!" and I read an article today about how the pipeline isn't really going anywhere.

[SirNitram]

Yeah, she sounds like a shit governor. I don't understand why she's so popular there. I'm not convinced they'd like her just for being "booo women and gay people, yaaaay unborn babies!" and I read an article today about how the pipeline isn't really going anywhere.

I suspect she isn't all that popular. I suspect, much like everything Chewie recited so obediently like Pavlov's dog, it's all made up by the campaign and put out there.(Though the 1,200 'The state made more profit this year! Pay down debts? That's commie talk.' check probably helped..)

[Metatwaddle]

Even in May, before she joined the campaign, her approval ratings were 86%. That's stratospheric. (Source)

[Metatwaddle]

Ghetto edit: I mean in Alaska. She sounds like a crappy governor and I don't know why they like her up north.

[[R_H]]

Gibson also read Palin a comment she made in her former church — "Our national leaders are sending U.S. soldiers on a task that is from God" — and asked whether she thought the United States was fighting a holy war.

Palin said she was recalling Abraham Lincoln's words when she made the comment and said: "I would never presume to know God's will or to speak God's words."

Did Lincoln ever say anything like that? I googled "Abrham Lincoln quotes" and couldn't find anything remotely like what she said in the first ten results.

[acesand8s]

Did Lincoln ever say anything like that? I googled "Abrham Lincoln quotes" and couldn't find anything remotely like what she said in the first ten results.

I believe this is the quote in question:

“Sir, my concern is not whether God is on our side; my greatest concern is to be on God's side, for God is always right.”

I've seen this attributed to Lincoln before, but only on random websites that do not source it to a particular letter or conversation. That being said, regardless of whether the quote is true or not, when I read the full Palin quote, as opposed to the snippet in the headline of a number of blog posts, that was exactly the message I got. Not to pray for a war that is God's will, but rather to pray that the war is God's will.

[Darth Wong]

She also had the foresight to get knocked up while she was the governor of Alaska. And 44. And the child has Down's Syndrome. Having a child that late is irresponsible enough, but to do it while you're running a state and then accepting a vice presidential nomination? That's ludicrous. I guess running Alaska gives her plenty of free time to spend with her special needs baby. Must not be that hard of a job.

I don't like Palin, but would you be this quick to condemn her choice to run this campaign if she were the father of a special needs baby? There are still a lot of assumptions about who primarily takes care of kids, but they weren't true when my sister was born (my dad was the primary caretaker) and they don't have to be true in Palin's case.

Sarah Palin's husband does not strike me as a stay-at-home guy.

[Darth Wong]

Did Lincoln ever say anything like that? I googled "Abrham Lincoln quotes" and couldn't find anything remotely like what she said in the first ten results.

I believe this is the quote in question:

“Sir, my concern is not whether God is on our side; my greatest concern is to be on God's side, for God is always right.”

I've seen this attributed to Lincoln before, but only on random websites that do not source it to a particular letter or conversation. That being said, regardless of whether the quote is true or not, when I read the full Palin quote, as opposed to the snippet in the headline of a number of blog posts, that was exactly the message I got. Not to pray for a war that is God's will, but rather to pray that the war is God's will.

The kind of person who believes that any war can be "God's Will" always scares me. There is plenty of evidence that Lincoln himself was mostly playing to crowds when he spoke of God, but I don't get that impression with Palin. Until recently, she had no idea she was going to be such a high-level politician.

[Vympel]

One of the most telling responses I've heard in relation to Palin's complete lack of a clue about foreign policy re: her high-school-level evasive answer about the "Bush Doctrine", is that:-

"that's just stupid, ask any random person what the Bush Doctrine is, see what they say".

As if a 'random person' is the standard against which to judge a person up to be Vice President of the most powerful country on Earth. It's really a stunning level of narcissism.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

The kind of person who believes that any war can be "God's Will" always scares me. There is plenty of evidence that Lincoln himself was mostly playing to crowds when he spoke of God, but I don't get that impression with Palin. Until recently, she had no idea she was going to be such a high-level politician.

I have a distinct feeling that she is the type of politician that will not only get intoxicated by power, but will go really looney, to the point that it is not only scary, but world shattering.

I fear for a McCain-Palin administration.

[Justforfun000]

Hehehe. Well as some of you may have noticed from my sig pic below, I'm involved with Annie Lennox's charitable campaigns and read her blogs faithfully. She just sent this opinion out along with a news story. It looks like we have a fellow mind..

Thursday, September 11, 2008

New Blog 12.09.08

(Annie Lennox)
THIS IS DEEPLY AND DANGEROUSLY WORRYING.....THE LIPSTICK WEARING "PITBULL" HOCKEY MOM ( HER OWN WORDS TO DESCRIBE HERSELF) FUNDAMENTALIST CHRISTIAN PRO GUN POTENTIAL VICE PRESIDENT, WHO HAS ONLY EVER MADE ONE TRIP OUT OF NORTH AMERICA IN HER LIFE.
THE UNITED STATES IS STAGGERING ON IT'S KNEES IN DEBT..THE US SOLDIERS IN IRAQ ARE PROFOUNDLY DEMORALISED AFTER A FIVE YEAR DEBACLE WHERE THOUSANDS OF LIVES HAVE BEEN DECIMATED..... FOR WHAT? AND THIS WOMAN WOULD CONSIDER SENDING US TROOPS TO GEORGIA!!!! GET A GRIP!!!!!


SOURCE: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/se ... arahpalin1

Sarah Palin shows hawkish streak in first interview
· Vice-presidential hopeful challenges Russia
· Democrats turn to Clinton for advice on campaign
Suzanne Goldenberg and Ewen MacAskill in Washington
The Guardian, Friday September 12 2008

A hawkish and occasionally combative Sarah Palin warned last night she might commit US troops to a war against Russia in defence of Georgia and Ukraine in her first interview since John McCain chose her as his running mate.
Palin, who admitted last night she made her first trip outside North America last year, also said she was certain she was ready to step in for McCain as president, if the Republican nominee were to be incapacitated. She said repeatedly she would not hesitate to use all options in an international crisis or resort to force against Islamist extremists.
"I have the confidence in that readiness and knowing that you can't blink. You have to be wired in a way of being so committed to the mission, the mission that we're on, reform of this country and victory in the war, you can't blink," Palin told ABC television.
Palin's interview was carefully stage-managed to counter criticism that she lacks foreign policy experience and to deflect media scrutiny of her personal life. But her occasionally stilted answers and uncompromising view of the world could sit uneasily with American voters, weary of the war on Iraq and the deteriorating situation in Afghanistan.
In sometimes tense exchanges, Palin demonstrated a more bellicose posture towards Russia than the Bush administration during the conflict with Georgia. She also supported military action against Islamist extremists in Pakistan even without the support of the Islamabad government.
Asked whether Nato membership would commit the US to going to war on behalf of Ukraine and Georgia if they were attacked, Palin said: "Perhaps so. I mean, that is the agreement when you are a Nato ally. If another country is attacked, you're going to be expected to be called upon and help. What I think is that smaller democratic countries that are invaded by a large power is something for us to be vigilant against."
She advocated speeding up full Nato membership for Georgia and Ukraine despite warnings from Moscow that it views attempts to expand US influence among the former Soviet states as provocative. Russia's invasion of Georgia was "unprovoked", she said and warned that America could not allow Moscow to control vital energy supplies. "We've got to keep an eye on Russia. For Russia to have exerted such pressure in terms of invading a smaller democratic country, unprovoked, is unacceptable," she said.
Last night's broadcast was the first of four programmes based on interviews with Palin conducted in her home town of Wasilla and Fairbanks both in Alaska.
The broadcasts will include footage of Palin's soldier son, Track, who was scheduled to deploy to Iraq yesterday. The Alaska governor, who touts herself as a moose-hunting, salmon-fishing, hockey mom turned political reformer, has faced a steady drip of negative stories about her record and her family including daughter Bristol, who is pregnant at 17.
Until the interviews, she had not taken questions from reporters, and at campaign rallies stuck closely to a scripted speech that is largely a distillation of her address to the party convention.
McCain's strategists are working hard to capitalise on Palin's appeal to Republican women as well as some former supporters of Hillary Clinton. Palin's instant popularity and the success of Republican effort to present her as a feminist icon, have put the Democrats off balance.
Meanwhile Barack Obama made a belated personal appeal to Bill Clinton yesterday for advice on how to mount a fightback and reverse a slide in the polls.
Talking to journalists before they began lunch, Clinton said: "I predict that Senator Obama will win and win pretty handily."
Obama added: "You can take it from the president of the United States. He knows a little something about politics."
Obama said he saw parallels between his campaign and Clinton's in 1992: a relatively unknown politician fighting the Republicans against a backdrop of an ailing economy. After the lunch, a joint statement issued on behalf of the two by Obama's team, said: "They discussed the campaign briefly, but mostly talked about how the world has changed since September 11 2001. They also spoke about what the next president can do to help make the economy work for all Americans, as it did under president Clinton."

[Patrick Degan]

One of the most telling responses I've heard in relation to Palin's complete lack of a clue about foreign policy re: her high-school-level evasive answer about the "Bush Doctrine", is that:-

"that's just stupid, ask any random person what the Bush Doctrine is, see what they say".

As if a 'random person' is the standard against which to judge a person up to be Vice President of the most powerful country on Earth. It's really a stunning level of narcissism.

Oh, Vice Presidential Barbie stumbled over that one in a very softball interview with Charlie Gibson, who had to explain the Bush Doctrine to her after asking if she agreed with it and proceeded to give a Miss Congeniality award-winning answer instead of that expected of somebody who's supposed to know what the fuck she's on about.

[CarsonPalmer]

I have to disagree that Lincoln was playing to crowds when he invoked God. Lincoln's spirituality was very real, and also very deistic. Anyone who claims he was a denominational Christian is out of their minds, but the best Lincoln rhetoric very often invokes a spiritual dimension, particularly the Second Inaugural.

None of this makes him a Protestant figure, however, and the God that Lincoln believed in was a very abstract concept that he didn't elaborate on very much.

[SirNitram]

The very concept of a Deist thinking God would be on any side of a war is ridiculous. The whole concept is of a god who isn't going to muck with human affairs.

[Pablo Sanchez]

Haven't seen this posted yet, an AP article about McCain's appearance on the View this morning almost calls a liar with respect to Palin's record on earmarks. This is an encouraging sign, hopefully we'll see the established media begin to wake up to the fact that McCain is trying to put a lot of total bullshit past them.

Here's a Kos post with the relevant video. I (and McCain, for that matter) probably thought he was going on the View for a marshmallow appearance. But at least for the 90 seconds of that clip, I'll be damned is Babawa isn't reaming him pretty good.

[SirNitram]

Haven't seen this posted yet, an AP article about McCain's appearance on the View this morning almost calls a liar with respect to Palin's record on earmarks. This is an encouraging sign, hopefully we'll see the established media begin to wake up to the fact that McCain is trying to put a lot of total bullshit past them.

I truly down the AP will turn on him. When you hire a guy to write political stories who was being courted by the McCain campaign and looking interested, you get a propaganda arm.

[Patrick Degan]

The very concept of a Deist thinking God would be on any side of a war is ridiculous. The whole concept is of a god who isn't going to muck with human affairs.

As a matter of fact, Lincoln in his Second Inaugural was all but saying that the war was God's judgement on America as a whole for having allowed the evil of slavery to persist as long as it did. Not Deistic but definitely not a claim to moral superiority for either side.