Magpies pass the mirror test?

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2008-09-10 01:58pm

This thread has given me SOOOO many good ideas for scifi writeups.

Napoleon the Clown · Post by **Napoleon the Clown** » 2008-09-12 12:20am

FA Xerrik wrote:So, in ridiculous mad-science theory, if we selected for particularly smart specimens, and also for those with shorter tongues, provided enough time, we could create talking ravens??

Ravens can actually be taught to speak to a certain extent already, actually. They aren't as adept at it as, say, parrots or mynas, but they're fully capable of mimicking human speech.

Through selective breeding we could, theoretically, get some ravens that could out-think some people. Wait, ravens already do that, too. I forgot about the fundies.

Kanastrous · Post by **Kanastrous** » 2008-09-12 10:47am

From what I've seen of my friend's raven, raven *do* speak - in raven.

What I mean to say is, it looks like they already have a language. Dissing them for limited English-speaking ability seems kind of unfair.

Post by **Broomstick** » 2008-09-12 12:13pm

Molyneux wrote:
FA Xerrik wrote:So, in ridiculous mad-science theory, if we selected for particularly smart specimens, and also for those with shorter tongues, provided enough time, we could create talking ravens??
Quite possibly. It'd probably be quite a bit easier than attempting to select parrots for intelligence, given their extremely long lifespan.

Ravens can live 40 years - they've got pretty long lifespans, too.

But it's not the lifespan you need to worry about but generational turn-over. Birds mature much faster than mammals - I don't know how long Ravens take to grow up, but parrots are ready to breed in 2-3 years (some species an even shorter time) so producing new generations proceeds much quicker than in, say, humans.

Post by **Edi** » 2008-09-12 02:07pm

Broomstick wrote:
Molyneux wrote:
FA Xerrik wrote:So, in ridiculous mad-science theory, if we selected for particularly smart specimens, and also for those with shorter tongues, provided enough time, we could create talking ravens??
Quite possibly. It'd probably be quite a bit easier than attempting to select parrots for intelligence, given their extremely long lifespan.
Ravens can live 40 years - they've got pretty long lifespans, too.

But it's not the lifespan you need to worry about but generational turn-over. Birds mature much faster than mammals - I don't know how long Ravens take to grow up, but parrots are ready to breed in 2-3 years (some species an even shorter time) so producing new generations proceeds much quicker than in, say, humans.

Around 2-3 years for corvids as well, possibly just 1-2. I can ask my dad for the exact number when he gets back from his birdwatching trip to Peru with some 20 other bird freaks. He left last night, so be a good two or three weeks before he gets back, so I guess consulting a book would be quicker at this time.