nickolay1 wrote:
I don't think that this is a fair comparison. The consequences of Leninism in the Soviet Union included a huge increase in the standard of living, a massive boost in life expectancy, the rise in literacy rates from ~30% to ~100%, a reduction in poverty, equal rights for all, the prevention of probable extermination of its population (trying to imagine the Russian Empire defending against Hitler makes me cringe), etc. What good can be attributed to Reaganism?
I think I need to rethink some of my world views? You got a link I can read at my leisure?
"The real ideological schism in America is not Republican vs Democrat; it is North vs South, Urban vs Rural, and it has been since the 19th century."
-Mike Wong
SancheztheWhaler wrote:if McCain is elected I'll expect all you plonkers talking about leaving the country to put your money where your mouths are. I think you're just talking big, however, and aren't going anywhere.
You don't happen to be in New Zealand, by any chance...?
Washington State - what's with the NZ reference?
'Plonker' sounded like it might have been a bit of Commonwealth slang. I had mentioned ongoing research into a New Zealand move, and since I thought you might possibly be a Kiwi, I figured I might hit you up for some advice. That's all.
I find myself endlessly fascinated by your career - Stark, in a fit of Nerd-Validation, November 3, 2011
Kanastrous wrote:
You don't happen to be in New Zealand, by any chance...?
Washington State - what's with the NZ reference?
'Plonker' sounded like it might have been a bit of Commonwealth slang. I had mentioned ongoing research into a New Zealand move, and since I thought you might possibly be a Kiwi, I figured I might hit you up for some advice. That's all.
nickolay1 wrote:
I don't think that this is a fair comparison. The consequences of Leninism in the Soviet Union included a huge increase in the standard of living, a massive boost in life expectancy, the rise in literacy rates from ~30% to ~100%, a reduction in poverty, equal rights for all, the prevention of probable extermination of its population (trying to imagine the Russian Empire defending against Hitler makes me cringe), etc. What good can be attributed to Reaganism?
I think I need to rethink some of my world views? You got a link I can read at my leisure?
How about any history book? The Russian Empire was not a good place to live. And in the span of a generation Russia went from being a largely agrarian third rate power to being a nuclear armed superpower that dominated the globe.
Also, apparently on tonights interview Palin threatens to go to war with them.
بيرني كان سيفوز
*
Nuclear Navy Warwolf
*
in omnibus requiem quaesivi, et nusquam inveni nisi in angulo cum libro
*
ipsa scientia potestas est
Ender clearly means that the USSR was one two most powerful nations on the planet and that it could reach and influence any spot on the globe(that's pretty god damn dominant in my book), not that it was undisputed master of the world.
The Excellent Prismatic Spray. For when you absolutely, positively must kill a motherfucker. Accept no substitutions. Contact a magician of the later Aeons for details. Some conditions may apply.
If it weren't for Palin being such an anti-science fundie, I wouldn't dread a McCain win. After all, the Republicans should be stuck with the problems the Republicans caused. And it looks like the next prez is going to inherit some serious problems.
If Obama were indeed elected, suddenly overnight everything wrong in Iraq, everything wrong with the economy, everything wrong with the climate would be painted as all Obama's fault.
"If you had fought like a man, you would not have had to die like a dog."
-said the swashbuckling Anne Bonney to her pirate lover "Calico" Jack Rackham, as he was awaiting the gallows in a Nassau jail. Only Bonney and one other crew member were left on deck fighting during a sea battle with authorities in which Rackham surrendered.
momochan wrote:If it weren't for Palin being such an anti-science fundie, I wouldn't dread a McCain win. After all, the Republicans should be stuck with the problems the Republicans caused. And it looks like the next prez is going to inherit some serious problems.
What exactly are you suggesting here? That the Republicans clean up their own mess? If they haven't done it in 8 years, what makes you think McSame would actually undo the damage? There's nothing that suggests his policies are any significantly different from the same failed Bush policies of the last two terms.
"It's you Americans. There's something about nipples you hate. If this were Germany, we'd be romping around naked on the stage here."
Momo, you're also overlooking the fact that while the Republicans would be 'stuck with the problems' they caused, the rest of us would likewise be stuck with at least four more years of the Republicans making things worse.
I find myself endlessly fascinated by your career - Stark, in a fit of Nerd-Validation, November 3, 2011
Darth Wong wrote:In a hundred years, they'll probably look upon Reaganism the same way they look at Leninism today, as a failed experiment that dominated a nation for generations.
I don't think that this is a fair comparison. The consequences of Leninism in the Soviet Union included a huge increase in the standard of living, a massive boost in life expectancy, the rise in literacy rates from ~30% to ~100%, a reduction in poverty, equal rights for all, the prevention of probable extermination of its population (trying to imagine the Russian Empire defending against Hitler makes me cringe), etc. What good can be attributed to Reaganism?
Ummm ... really favourable tax treatment for billionaires? You're right though; communism in general has been considered a failed experiment in many ways, but Russia arguably needed Leninism.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
My own fear is that if the Republicans win, they will lock USA into another round of Cold War -esque conflict with Russia, considerably worsening the current global political climate. And of course, if Palin would have her way, apparently there might be a real war with Russia as well (although I hope that is only saber-rattling and not a serious consideration), which would have dire repercussions for the whole world.
Of course, when has the current Republican leadership cared about the rest of mankind is at anyone's guess...
Confiteor Deo omnipotenti; beatae Mariae semper Virgini; beato Michaeli Archangelo; sanctis Apostolis, omnibus sanctis... Tibit Pater, quia peccavi nimis, cogitatione, verbo et opere, mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa! Kyrie Eleison!
The Imperial Senate (defunct) * Knights Astrum Clades * The Mess
Ender wrote:Also, apparently on tonights interview Palin threatens to go to war with them.
I think it's too generous to hope that Palin really realizes what the fuck she is saying. I doubt she has ever seen war, or ever been to other nations, but hey, it's perfectly acceptable to say such things if the dumb bitch is appointed for election.
Lì ci sono chiese, macerie, moschee e questure, lì frontiere, prezzi inaccessibile e freddure
Lì paludi, minacce, cecchini coi fucili, documenti, file notturne e clandestini
Qui incontri, lotte, passi sincronizzati, colori, capannelli non autorizzati,
Uccelli migratori, reti, informazioni, piazze di Tutti i like pazze di passioni...
...La tranquillità è importante ma la libertà è tutto!
Why do people think that another conflict with Russia depends on which candidate is elected? Russia and US were "friends" during the 90s not because Clinton was such a nice guy to Russia (he wasn't: US bombed Kosovo, NATO expanded to Poland, Czech Republic and Hungary) but because Russia was too weak do anything about it. Now Russia started to push back and that caused conflict because US doesn't want to move back.
That is not to say that it's OK for Palin to threaten war with Russia but conflict with Russia can only be prevented if one side backs down and US simply isn't the backing down sort regardless of who is in office.
But if the forces of evil should rise again, to cast a shadow on the heart of the city.
Call me. -Batman
Obama didn't say he'd dare to attack Russia if we suddenly go to war with Georgia (and it's not like such a war would happen without a reason).
Kane Starkiller wrote:Russia and US were "friends" during the 90s not because Clinton was such a nice guy to Russia (he wasn't: US bombed Kosovo, NATO expanded to Poland, Czech Republic and Hungary) but because Russia was too weak do anything about it
There's a certain truth to this. But can't the US really adapt to the fact that Russia is stronger now, and will not allow neither it's subjects, nor it's client states, enclaves and even separate military facilities to be manhandled, assaulted and destroyed by US client nations, or otherwise pushed around by the US?
Is the US political elite totally unable to adapt to this fact? Russia is not Pakistan. The US can't just wave our nation away, and Palin is dangerously stupid if she thinks the US can go to war with Russia over the Georgian-Ossetian dispute...
Lì ci sono chiese, macerie, moschee e questure, lì frontiere, prezzi inaccessibile e freddure
Lì paludi, minacce, cecchini coi fucili, documenti, file notturne e clandestini
Qui incontri, lotte, passi sincronizzati, colori, capannelli non autorizzati,
Uccelli migratori, reti, informazioni, piazze di Tutti i like pazze di passioni...
...La tranquillità è importante ma la libertà è tutto!
Stas Bush wrote:The US can't just wave our nation away, and Palin is dangerously stupid if she thinks the US can go to war with Russia over the Georgian-Ossetian dispute...
Asked whether the United States would have to go to war with Russia if it invaded Georgia, and the country was part of NATO, Palin said: "Perhaps so."
"I mean, that is the agreement when you are a NATO ally, is if another country is attacked, you're going to be expected to be called upon and help," she said.
So she said they would "perhaps" go to war with Russia IF Georgia is a NATO ally which frankly is nothing controversial since NATO is a mutual defense organization.
Stas Bush wrote:There's a certain truth to this. But can't the US really adapt to the fact that Russia is stronger now, and will not allow neither it's subjects, nor it's client states, enclaves and even separate military facilities to be manhandled, assaulted and destroyed by US client nations, or otherwise pushed around by the US?
Is the US political elite totally unable to adapt to this fact? Russia is not Pakistan.
US political elite is no different than those from other countries in that none want to see their country loosing their former power and influence without a fight. The trouble is that after 1991 US influence and power was such that it could do whatever it wanted whenever it wanted. Any expansion of Russian power anywhere means the erosion of US power and they won't willingly allow it.
But if the forces of evil should rise again, to cast a shadow on the heart of the city.
Call me. -Batman
I'm not sure what you mean. Fight over influence has been a part of international politics for centuries. The fact that US achieved influence unprecedented in history doesn't change that.
But if the forces of evil should rise again, to cast a shadow on the heart of the city.
Call me. -Batman
sorry, I thought I was hearing more of the "I hope the GOP wins and fucks the middle class even more. Because just like the aftermath of the depression and WWII it will make the country healthier" philosphy. Which is kinda taken from Neizche's will to power, specifically "That which does not kill, makes you stronger." Sort of a "Natural selection" advocacy amoung people who don't believe in natural selection....
The scariest folk song lyrics are "My Boy Grew up to be just like me" from cats in the cradle by Harry Chapin
The Republicans don't oppose natural selection when it's applied economically and politically, they only have problems when it starts to have arguments with religion.
As for Palin, I think she still thinks that the Russian military is stuck in 1995. If she knew the truth, Barbie would be running to the nearest bunker in Antarctica, shitting her pants in fear.
Turns out that a five way cross over between It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, the Ali G Show, Fargo, Idiocracy and Veep is a lot less funny when you're actually living in it.
Invictus ChiKen wrote:
I think I need to rethink some of my world views? You got a link I can read at my leisure?
A good book for understanding the differences between the results of a command economy and a free market system is William Overholt's "The Rise of China: How economic reform is creating a new superpower" (Yes, I know, it's China and not Russia, but it should help you to get a background on the topic).
Pelranius wrote:As for Palin, I think she still thinks that the Russian military is stuck in 1995. If she knew the truth, Barbie would be running to the nearest bunker in Antarctica, shitting her pants in fear.
And apparently more-or-less half of US voting population would like her to be next in line for Presidential succession if McCain would be prevented from his duty (or, more simply, would just pass away). A woman who, disregarding her apalling credits in US politics, is all too eager to go to war with Russia just to satisfy her own ego and the ego of her party members.
Confiteor Deo omnipotenti; beatae Mariae semper Virgini; beato Michaeli Archangelo; sanctis Apostolis, omnibus sanctis... Tibit Pater, quia peccavi nimis, cogitatione, verbo et opere, mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa! Kyrie Eleison!
The Imperial Senate (defunct) * Knights Astrum Clades * The Mess
As I already pointed out in my last post Palin simply stated that if Georgia was a NATO member then she would perhaps go to war with Russia. Unless there is some other statement that I'm not aware of that doesn't sound at all threatening or like warmongering.
But if the forces of evil should rise again, to cast a shadow on the heart of the city.
Call me. -Batman
^ Yes, but she also is in favor of Georgia joining NATO. The recent clusterfuck down there should convince anyone that that's a Bad Idea.
Who wants to bet Palin gets most of her "foreign policy knowledge" straight from the Fox News Channel?
"I spit on metaphysics, sir."
"I pity the woman you marry." -Liberty
This is the guy they want to use to win over "young people?" Are they completely daft? I'd rather vote for a pile of shit than a Jesus freak social regressive.
Here's hoping that his political career goes down in flames and, hopefully, a hilarious gay sex scandal. -Tanasinn
You can't expect sodomy to ruin every conservative politician in this country. -Battlehymn Republic
Anguirus wrote:^ Yes, but she also is in favor of Georgia joining NATO. The recent clusterfuck down there should convince anyone that that's a Bad Idea.
Obama wrote:No matter how this conflict started, Russia has escalated it well beyond the dispute over South Ossetia and invaded another country. Russia has escalated its military campaign through strategic bombing and the movement of its ground forces into the heart of Georgia. There is no possible justification for these attacks.
Obama wrote:The United States, Europe and all other concerned countries must stand united in condemning this aggression, and seeking a peaceful resolution to this crisis.
Obama wrote:This is a clear violation of the sovereignty and internationally recognized borders of Georgia - the UN must stand up for the sovereignty of its members, and peace in the world.
And finally:
Obama wrote:Going forward, the United States and Europe must support the people of Georgia. Beyond immediate humanitarian assistance, we must provide economic assistance, and help rebuild what has been destroyed. I have consistently called for deepening relations between Georgia and transatlantic institutions, including a Membership Action Plan for NATO, and we must continue to press for that deeper relationship.
As I said I really don't see any significant difference between future external policy of United States regardless of who is elected president.
But if the forces of evil should rise again, to cast a shadow on the heart of the city.
Call me. -Batman
As I said I really don't see any significant difference between future external policy of United States regardless of who is elected president.
Indeed. Both the Democratic and Republican parties are slaves to the idea that America is on some sort of global mission to save the world from Evil (TM) and both promote the maintenance of an empire to that end. There's bipartisan agreement on this infantile rubbish, and no dissenting voices (whether from 'real' conservatives like Pat Buchanan or liberals or whomever) ever gets a hearing in Washington.
I think I need to rethink some of my world views? You got a link I can read at my leisure?
Russia is not Pakistan. The US can't just wave our nation away, and Palin is dangerously stupid if she thinks the US can go to war with Russia over the Georgian-Ossetian dispute...
