McCain now running on his immigration bill.

[SirNitram]

Link

Throw the flag against: The McCain-Palin campaign.

Call: Illegal shift.

What happened: The campaign Friday launched a 30-second Spanish-language television ad charging that Democrat Barack Obama and his Senate colleagues torpedoed meaningful changes in immigration laws.

"The press reports that their efforts were 'poison pills' that made immigration reform fail," the ad charges. "The result: No guest worker program. No path to citizenship. No secure borders. No reform. Is that being on our side? Obama and his congressional allies ready to block immigration reform, but not ready to lead."

What that's wrong: Media accounts cited two votes as effectively killing immigration reform last year — and Obama was on the same side as McCain in both.

On June 7, supporters failed by 15 votes to cut off a filibuster. McCain and Obama voted to limit debate. The Politico headline the next day: "Senate immigration compromise collapses."

On June 28, another effort to limit debate failed by 14 votes; CNN called it a "crushing defeat." Obama and McCain again voted to cut off debate, but it was largely Republican senators who led the filibuster.

In its review of the 2007 Congress, Congressional Quarterly cited both votes as crucial to killing the immigration measure.

Penalty: Set the McCain-Palin campaign's credibility back five yards.

I'm sure this'll solidify McCain's rural white voter base. Definitely solidify.

[CaptJodan]

Clearly there is no end to this campaigns twisted distortions and lies. You're right, Nitram, this is all about throwing as much chaff out in the field as possible, and keeping Obama constantly on the defensive. It's a smear campaign deliberately designed to just keep him from talking about the issues. And it's gonna work (not necessarily to victory, but it isn't going to backfire).

I fucking hate American politics. Where the seemingly honest guy, the man who has a real vision for the future and more than a few braincells to rub together is buried under lies, distortions, and fear that go unchecked.

Chewie...come on man...you've got to have a better reason than "she's like my mom, I feel with my gut that I like her and McCain." I truly and coming to the point of not understanding how people can take this ticket seriously.

[SirNitram]

I find there's little point to trying to logically argue someone out of supporting McCain when they've employed the arguments Chewie has. Simply declaring a man with a history of vulgarity-laden outbursts on the Senate floor, to say nothing of shoving people out of his way when they were inconvenient to him, has a 'Good head on his shoulders', a sign you have simply bought the lies. Having bought them, it's very hard to admit you got sold bullshit. It implies the buyer isn't smart.

[Flagg]

I find there's little point to trying to logically argue someone out of supporting McCain when they've employed the arguments Chewie has. Simply declaring a man with a history of vulgarity-laden outbursts on the Senate floor, to say nothing of shoving people out of his way when they were inconvenient to him, has a 'Good head on his shoulders', a sign you have simply bought the lies. Having bought them, it's very hard to admit you got sold bullshit. It implies the buyer isn't smart.

Agreed. Quite frankly, if you're planning to vote for John McCain then you're too stupid to breath and should take actions to rectify that situation. There is simply no valid excuse for voting for the man unless you hate America and want to see it fall further into the pit we've been sliding into for the past 8 years.

[Darth Wong]

I wonder if there are any McCain supporters who did not also consistently support George W. Bush. It seems a foregone conclusion that anyone who could drink enough Republitard Kool-Aid to support Bush through two terms of stupidity, corruption, and breathtaking levels of cronyism and naked self-interest would have absolutely no problem overlooking any of McCain's flaws.

Could one find even a single person who voted against Bush in 2004 who is saying "Hey, I like what I hear from McCain" now?

[Gandalf]

Why spend all of that time and effort appealing to new voters when they can just motivate the same base that helped them sail to victory in 2004?

If you can make Bush look good, surely making McCain look good is even easier.

[Stark]

Could one find even a single person who voted against Bush in 2004 who is saying "Hey, I like what I hear from McCain" now?

Would this suggest that since Bush voters may generally be McCain voters, it's likely most people who voted for Bush twice are NOT changing their voting? I mean, Bush won twice; in order for Obama to lose, most of those people need to vote the same way again, for whatever reason, unless I'm looking at it the wrong way.

[Gandalf]

Would this suggest that since Bush voters may generally be McCain voters, it's likely most people who voted for Bush twice are NOT changing their voting? I mean, Bush won twice; in order for Obama to lose, most of those people need to vote the same way again, for whatever reason, unless I'm looking at it the wrong way.

Some might have become disenchanted with Bush over the last few years, to the point where they might stay home in November.

He has to both be perceived as someone who is enough of a maverick to not be a party drone, but enough of a party man to appeal to the base.

[Mayabird]

I'm sure this'll solidify McCain's rural white voter base. Definitely solidify.

If nobody specifically tells them about it, they won't find out for themselves. If they aren't told to get mad at it, they won't get mad at it.

It's like someone asking how Georgia has a state income tax when you'd think that the citizenry would whine about it being too liberal. If the masses aren't told/ordered to start complaining because state income taxes are liberal, it won't occur to them otherwise.

[Kanastrous]

I'm sure this'll solidify McCain's rural white voter base. Definitely solidify.

It'll solidify his ignorant asshole voter base.

Oh, that's what SirNitram said.

Sorry.

[Sriad]

This is a simple elaboration of McCain's foolproof plan of representing both sides of every issue.

There is no hope of resisting his tactical genius.

[Medic]

Chewie...come on man...you've got to have a better reason than "she's like my mom, I feel with my gut that I like her and McCain." I truly and coming to the point of not understanding how people can take this ticket seriously.

A clutch of reasons, none of them good.

1) willfully ignorant. They don't know these are outright lies (Palin for her part CONTINUES to claim she was against the bridge to nowhere, immediately, vigorously and entirely) and they're never, ever going to back check this because that would require them EITHER taking in information outside of their self-discriminated media intake, i.e., whatever incarnation of the right-wing echo chamber they tell themselves is news or said echo chamber calling foul on McCain. Actually, as much as McCain's shat on his own party, the latter isn't .... entirely impossible. I'd go so far as to say I'm holding my breath.

2) They've always voted Republican, they always WILL vote Republican. This still describes something like what, 4/5 Americans, either Blue or Red, voting along party lines?

3) I'll quote some old bone of a lady in an NPR interview. 1st the setting and context for you: it was a round-table discussion of some random people, half of them not black, the other half all black, and the question was whether or not race had an effect on their voting decisions.

In the beginning, all of them said just about "no" it didn't. That being said, every black person was going to vote for Obama (one equally batshit old lady alluded to "the white system" that is going to actively "keep an eye on" any Obama Presidency) and 5 out of the 7 non-black people in this little forum were voting for McCain. In the end, they all changed their minds, "yeah" race is a factor in their decision.

But back to the old white woman, in her opinion, because of Obama's MOOSLEM upbringing, he'll always be a Muslim, "until he dies." (exact quote)

Long bullet point made short, simply because Obama's the black man, McCain's the default racist / bigot ticket.

4) finally, single-issue voters. Whatever it is, abortion, must vote for a woman (sort've unique to this election), defense spending. As a related reason to this, the fear of giving Obama a rubber-stamp Congress, as in, a Democratic Presidency and Legislature combined might scare some people off.

5) other. I'd say if I knew.

[Darth Wong]

Could one find even a single person who voted against Bush in 2004 who is saying "Hey, I like what I hear from McCain" now?

Would this suggest that since Bush voters may generally be McCain voters, it's likely most people who voted for Bush twice are NOT changing their voting? I mean, Bush won twice; in order for Obama to lose, most of those people need to vote the same way again, for whatever reason, unless I'm looking at it the wrong way.

I'm saying it's a one-way drift, at least based on policy rather than race. Apart from hardcore racists, I can't see anyone voting for Kerry in 2004 and McCain in 2008. I could, however, see someone voting for Bush in 2004 and waking up in the meantime to vote Obama in 2008. We've got a few examples of such people here on the boards after all.