SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread II

[Shroom Man 777]

Yenchin:

The gunrunners could do their business subtly and the government to not sanction their actions, while also not cracking down on them (too much).

The Prez can deal with the gunrunners in a reasonable way but still beat the ass of slavers and drug dealers. It would be best, though, if he and the Akori government act totally clueless about the whole gunrunning thing.

Akori won't be the only port for gunrunners. The whole CONTINENT will be rife with people sending arms to help the noble causes of various revolutionaries in whatever part is being dicked over by neocolonialistic cockery.

Gunrunners, drugrunners, slavers, all of this will be a natural consequence of all the unwanted attention the continent is getting.

Either way, you COULD send your Serenity guys over there as a token gesture to "stop anarchistic" or "lawless" or whatever influences from taking hold. But in REALITY, you'd actually be expanding your sphere of influence in ANOTHER bid at neocolonial dickery - for your own profit.

And THEN you'd allow the gunrunners to sell guns to revolutionaries at the West side of the continent, while also selling your own guns and stuff to people!

(If you're in the MESS, this would be a plus for whatever MESS intervention is going on at Valeria. You'd join the Canissians and Cascadians in trying to dick the Shepistanis and Japanistanis over)




@ Karmic and PeZook:

The FUN will be an economic alliance, then. For money, for trade, for profit and for richness!

There WILL be under-the-table military defense deals and contracts for missiles and shit. I mean, if one of our more profitable and beneficial buddies gets attacked, we'd have to DEFEND OUR INVESTMENTS!

But there won't be obligations. Just... protection of interests.


Shroomania probably has an already-existing (or de facto) open borders agreement with both PeZookia and Canissia, owing to our awesomely friendly relations. It'd be like Canadia and the USA or something.



The Shroomanian Commonwealth would be a more... uhh... symbolic thinggy. Sort of like how Australia and Canadia and stuff are Commonwealth nations, but don't really owe Britain anything aside from having Queen Elizabeth on their monies or something.

[PeZook]

We'll also need a couple international regulatory bodies, like the World Bank and a sea commerce authority, and maybe Interpol.

Oh, damn! I almost forgot

FASTA bulleting upcoming!

[Karmic Knight]

@ Karmic and PeZook:

The FUN will be an economic alliance, then. For money, for trade, for profit and for richness!

The Shroomanian Commonwealth would be a more... uhh... symbolic thinggy. Sort of like how Australia and Canadia and stuff are Commonwealth nations, but don't really owe Britain anything aside from having Queen Elizabeth on their monies or something.

FOR TRADE, FOR PROFIT, FOR RICHNESS!

And put Shroomainian Icons on my cash, check.

We'll also need a couple international regulatory bodies, like the World Bank and a sea commerce authority, and maybe Interpol.

Oh, damn! I almost forgot

FASTA bulleting upcoming!

About FASTA, the Vinish Financial Ministry, after screwing up royally the first time, is now ready to go back to helping fund FASTA, with an initial payment of 100 million dollars, and a yearly payment of 50 million dollars. (Unless I fucked my math up royally)

[PeZook]

I have no idea why I always make the same typo while writing "bulletin".

Something must be screwed up in my brain.Seriously, "bulleting"?!

[Shroom Man 777]

As for Interpol, we've got the Fungal Intelligence Agency and the Fungal Bureau of Investigation.

Johan Ludwig Baylor (the Indestructible)! Hobart Hoover (the Crossdresser)!

[Steve]

Shroom, since you may have missed it, Cascadia managed to string together a wobbly, uncertain pact among northern Velarian states that was aimed at limiting Japanistani expansion possibilities. It's very loose and the fact that Japanistan made its first space launch right after the treaty was signed further strained the ties there. The signatories were Al-Itani, Tanvarika, Ashant, Yulanti, Fredonia, and Adabani (marked as New Olympia on the map, the former Cascadian colony in the region).

In no way was it intended to be a stable arrangement. The nations agreed to make their region an "exclusion zone" by which none will permit an outside power to use its territory as a base of operations against another, with Cascadia formally turning um-Kasrah Air Field over to al-Itani and offering arbitration to a border dispute between Yulanti and Fredonia.

I can imagine gun runners would find ready clients in almost all those states, though Adabani tends to use Cascadian arms. And the local Cascadian naval presence - usually at least one COG (Combined Ops Group, basically a carrier and an LHD with a sizable escort) - can't be everywhere at once.

[Sea Skimmer]

In fact, Sea Skimmer is not using the point system but rather costing his military more realistically

Any Imperium with a 5 trillion GDP can technically have a military that would equal or surpass the Soviet one, given sufficient militarization. Such a GDP is large enough to have a Navy which may be just a little less strong than the USN, and a strategic bomber fleet that would make the US and USSR blush.

The point system also allows for some sort of balance between Army, Navy and Airforce, whereas without it, one could just boost all three while still being in the realm of the possible, economically.

"Realistically"? Well indeed, if your nation has a military larger than the US/NATO or USSR, while having, pardon me, 1/18 fraction of the respective territories - our largest nations have bascially the area of Mongolia to boot, and just ~1/3 the population of US/USSR, that doesn't sound terribly normal for a peacetime nation.

Its quite realistic for an isolated military dictatorship that starved off total defeat with chemical weapons kamikazes in the last great world war.. I have smaller territory then the USSR, but my population is 500 million, and at 5 trillion the GDP is much higher and GDP includes the value of things like resources produced. My per capita GDP is quite similar to what has been estimated for the Soviet Union in the 1980s, and I would have gone with a smaller population if I was going to actually field a Soviet level military.

Meanwhile I do not incur the costs of nuclear weapons, delivery systems and the massive operating costs of keeping them in a constant high state of readiness. Costs of the PVO and things like the boarder guard troops would also be inherently reduce by the smaller territory, as are transportation costs to supply such a huge military.

This means affording the 1980s Soviet military with a stronger convetional tilt is quite within reason for a nation modeled after Imperial Japan, which historically reached the point of spending 27% of its GDP on the military by 1938. The Soviet Union spent more like 15%, I’d spend less then that. Japanistan is currently declared at 7.1%, but that doesn’t include everything. Now this military force couldn’t be vastly modernized since the 1980s owing to the massive spike in weapons costs, but a lot of stuff from the 1980s would still be highly effective today. After seeing what everyone was going with I decided me declaring anything like what was possible up be unpopular so I scaled way back. Otherwise I’d be the sole superpower.

[Raj Ahten]

A few points that have brought up need addressing:

First Indhopal's position on FTO members and other alliances. It has been their view that FTO nations probably shouldn't become members of other military alliances as that could drag them into wars that have nothing to do with them. The FTO is pretty loose though, so if the group opinion went with saying a member could join other military alliances; Indhopal would relent on that issue. For economic alliances and so forth, those are fine, as they don't lead to wars. If the FUN does become just an economic alliance Indhopal might join if the nationalists could be calmed down a bit. It would fit in well with Indhopal’s official policy of engagement with the great powers.

On the Brush wars in Frequesue:
I only wanted to have just operation Stabilizer, as the CFR as a failed state right next to several FTO members isn't exactly a good situation. This goes for other conflicts as well. Open conflicts on the continent are very .likely spill over into other countries and destabilize the region. That wouldn't be good for business.

I must say though that Coilerburg is drawing more enemies by the minute. Defending it is simply part of the mutual defense treaty, even if it might seem to be more trouble than its worth at the moment .

[Raj Ahten]

Right now there are multiple factions in the CFR. Is anyone interested in running one of them? I certainly can't run them all and Indhopal and do the effort any justice.

[Lonestar]

Ta-da! How the OD got a hold of the Pathogen is explained.

[Coyote]

I just got on after missing all day Saturday, so I haven't read the story thread first, but... I'd be open to internal social pressures forcing Byzantium to either leave, or scale back involvement in, the MESS.

In this game we are supposed to be more answerable to our citizens. Even the monarchs can face revolution and war crimes trials or the guillotine if we do something the people consider unacceptable-- like starting wars based on little evidence than, say "past life experiences" (which would get us run out of power by reason of insanity).

No doubt the people of Byzantium see the MESS/Shepistan conflict, and the other recent tensions, and thing, "hell, this is getting serious" and feel that they are better served by cutting back MESS ties and adhering to the mighty Slavic union. They put pressure on the Emperor, and he follows his peoples' desires. It'll shake the power-blocs, make things challenging and serve for good story, I think.

Bear in mind this will put Canissia as the only fully engaged MESS nation on the Old Continent.

I want to assure people I am trying to play this seriously in my role-- I am not eager for war or trying to make a war happen, but at the same time I will not sit by and let myself get played for a fool a second time. When I say, in-game, that I am puzzled by Skimmer's insistence on clinging to Shep even when Shep does something dangerously provocative, I am sincere in my thoughts. In my mind, personally, the ties of alliance and friendship go so far; clinging to an ally who insists on picking fights with the biggest guy on the block is not rational unless you're getting something really, really golden out of it. At some point a rational nation will cut the ties and let Georgia sink or swi-- er, I mean, let the irrational and dangerously provocative nation sink or swim.

In Canissia, I fully intend to pursue a easygoing relationship with the CSR, and I also intend to make that a problem for me domestically. Nukes are very unpopular, and I intend to play that out.

[Master_Baerne]

Right now there are multiple factions in the CFR. Is anyone interested in running one of them? I certainly can't run them all and Indhopal and do the effort any justice.

I'll take care of this Weinburg character, as Baerne intends to support him anyway.

[K. A. Pital]

Its quite realistic for an isolated military dictatorship that starved off total defeat with chemical weapons kamikazes in the last great world war.

Well, I'm not saying it's unrealistic, if you're so militarized and boost such a large population (however, isn't there a cap for Imperiums at 120 million?). Bear in mind that the USSR spent around 100-160 billion for defense, while you seem to spend 350 billion - double the figure.

Otherwise I’d be the sole superpower.

Yeah, you'd be - with the level of militarization you're aiming at, just like I thought. The 500 million population is the only thing which I find dubious, but given you scaled back the military, it might not be much of an issue.

P.S. Beowulf, the idea that a missile with Tomahawk engine would be flying at Mach 3,5 is preposterous. NATO never indulged into hypersonic heavy Anti-Ship missiles seriously, and did not produce results even close ot Mach 2 cruise speed, so sorry, but I call bullshit on that one.

Both Tom and Harpoon engines are optimized for longitude of flight and low speed. Before they become hypersonic missile engines, the sky must fall or something.

[Shinn Langley Soryu]

On another note: Major Yukito Tsukishiro? Why didn't I notice that earlier?

Then again, I'm the guy who populated his own nation with Code Geass characters. Karmic Knight has Wallace Breen leading his forces in the CFR. And of course, there's Shroom, his love of the Ace Combat franchise, his use of Christopher Walken to govern a mining town in Velaria, and his general tendency of modifying names by affixing "Shroom" to them in some way.

[Beowulf]

The engine isn't from a Tomahawk, only the booster is. So that it can be kicked out of the VLS cell. The missile itself is from the RATTLRS technology demonstrator (previously seen in game being air launched). The engine is (as stated) the J102. The Tomahawk uses a F107 turbofan.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

SiegeTank: You can probably announce some time next week that all the Su-39 you ordered have been sent.

[Shroom Man 777]

And of course, there's Shroom, his love of the Ace Combat franchise, his use of Christopher Walken to govern a mining town in Velaria, and his general tendency of modifying names by affixing "Shroom" to them in some way.

Christopher Walken has left Velaria and is now in Frequesue, on the wheel of an obscenely marvelous MacMillan machine that is strip-mining entire jungles.

[Czechmate]

On another note: Major Yukito Tsukishiro? Why didn't I notice that earlier?

Then again, I'm the guy who populated his own nation with Code Geass characters. Karmic Knight has Wallace Breen leading his forces in the CFR. And of course, there's Shroom, his love of the Ace Combat franchise, his use of Christopher Walken to govern a mining town in Velaria, and his general tendency of modifying names by affixing "Shroom" to them in some way.

I, too, have great love for the Ace Combat franchise. My 4.75G fighter will be the X-02 or bust!

[Shroom Man 777]

I was already working on an X-02 ever since Game 1, just ask Fingolfin.

My Yer Mom-class submarines are, totally, like the Yuktobanian Scinfaxi submarines.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

I was already working on an X-02 ever since Game 1, just ask Fingolfin.

My Yer Mom-class submarines are, totally, like the Yuktobanian Scinfaxi submarines.

Yes.. but we never got around to finish it, no thanks to the war.

Then Shroom had to go batshit insane.

[Shroom Man 777]

I doubt we need superfighters in this game, though. Phongn said it best, we don't need super-duper weapons systems to counter Shep and Skim's hordes of bombers. We have to be pragmatic and invest in a more equally distributed defense system, with lotsa radars and other stuff.

How can five fighters stop five hundred bombers, even if the fighters have insane variable geometry swing-forwards-backwards-swept wings, thrust-vectoring, and canards and shit?

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

I doubt we need superfighters in this game, though. Phongn said it best, we don't need super-duper weapons systems to counter Shep and Skim's hordes of bombers. We have to be pragmatic and invest in a more equally distributed defense system, with lotsa radars and other stuff.

How can five fighters stop five hundred bombers, even if the fighters have insane variable geometry swing-forwards-backwards-swept wings, thrust-vectoring, and canards and shit?

Well, fighters like F-22s have long range radar, and carry missiles that fire off at range. And it's not like I'm operating only a few. I should have 96 of these things ready in 1-2 game years time. I plan to procure some heavy interceptors from Beowulf soon.

And yes.. I did contract MacMillian under BAM to upgrade in phases my F-15s.

[K. A. Pital]

MiG-31 and other modern interceptors have a passive electronically scanned array radar.

With newest standoff missiles that have up to 400 km range - both air-launched and ground-launched (S-400 4-series), disposing of Shep's bombers should be easy.

More missiles? I have 1440 S-400 missiles - that's enough to down Shep's bomber fleet many times over.

Interceptors are not as much as standoff element versus old hardware - they are needed to counter newer types of bombers.

[Shroom Man 777]

@ Fingolfin:

You did?!

YAAAAY!

You'll get those SUPER COOL F-15 ACTIVES and, hell, we can throw in a few ASAT missiles if we end up being under the threat of...

Space War.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

@ Fingolfin:

You did?!

YAAAAY!

You'll get those SUPER COOL F-15 ACTIVES and, hell, we can throw in a few ASAT missiles if we end up being under the threat of...

Space War.

I might have neglected posting it in the news thread, but I did mention to you somewhere either through PM or here in the comment thread.

Anyhow, Stas, I might build up a line to produce locally customised MIG-31M to function as the interim heavy interceptor.

Jeez.. I'm spending way too much money... no economic growth this year I guess. Then we have Indophal abandoning the particle accelerator project.

Hmm.. Should slow the process down.